Scarab 165 Mods

Boomer165 · Jun 17, 2018

I am terrified of the cost, I know the wear ring isn't expensive, just worried about the Impeller and shaft... My old Merc outboard with a stainless prop would have just sliced the rope to shreds....

Luc Lafreniere · Jun 17, 2018

I don't think the impeller is that expensive (more than the wear ring of course!) but yeah, the shaft, any damage to the carbon seal... that probably costs a lot more since it probably involves a lot more labor.

Luc Lafreniere · Jul 29, 2018

Well, now that I moved to my new home and the contractor finally finished widening the two garage doors and installing new doors, I got around to testing the clearance. I first moved the wheel fenders inwards a bit so that they are now flush with the tires (width wise). I then back it in. Not bad, got it in on the second try alone. As you can see, the clearance is extremely tight (but keep in mind, there is weather stripping of approximately 1" on both sides that bends. But she goes!!! I only need to do this once a year for storage during the winter. And again to take it out. Saves me $500/year in storage fees (CAD) and I now have the benefit of keeping at home.

With that, I finally got around to installing my new trailer guide posts from CE Smith. They were quite easy to install and the electrical "quick clips" are pretty cool. I had never seen them before. They literally splice in on the brown wire of the trailer... by just crimping on. No fuss at all. Then ground it as usual. Also, installed Boat Buckles. Had to buy new bolts that were longer... then realize they weren't long enough, so after a second trip to Home Depot, got the right bolt. Besides, sounds like the factory bolts that come with them kind of suck based on reviews I read.

I also think I "fixed" the bilge pump that never stops. After reading up on the particular pump, I decided to simply wedge a dowel with a rubber coating (to prevent it from moving) under the sensor portion of the pump therefore raising the sensor. I also rotated the intake head a bit downwards. Presto! It now STOPS pumping once the water gets very low. If I want to get the rest out, I just wait until I'm moving to get all the water in the stern, then turn it on manually if needed. Quite a few people have complained about this issue. I suspect all it is is the angle of the pump. If the boat is trimmed back, it will probably work and stop because the angle is steeper and the water sensor is out of the water. If its trimmed forward, then it's too flat and can't pump enough water out for the sensor to read as empty. Anybody who has this problem should try adjusting the angle of the pump (higher towards the bow, lower towards the stern), either with my dowel technique or by re-gluing the thing at a steeper angle.

I think I'm mostly done by mods! I'm sure I'll come up with some more, but I'm really happy with everything.

James McDougall · Jul 29, 2018

Looks amazing....do you think you could have cut it any closer ?!? haha That's some precision backing up there brother!

James McDougall · Jul 29, 2018

What's the point in those guide polls? Does it make it easier to drive into the trailer? I've never had a problem, personally so don't really understand?

Luc Lafreniere · Jul 29, 2018

It's definitely a little tight! lol As for the guide poles... well, on my very first outing with it, I put it on the Rideau river in the spring. I discovered very quickly that trying to load a boat (alone) when there is current is extremely difficult. The boat kept going sideways and I couldn't get it to load straight at all! Luckily a man saw me and came to help. I swore I would get some at that point. I have to try them of course... but my logic:

1. Really easy to spot the two corners of my trailer as I back up with my SUV since the poles now stick out high enough to be seen in my rear window.
2. They add more lights which can't hurt when towing from Ottawa to Sturgeon Falls at night

But also you can see those lights in the dark when backing it up at night time (which I keep having to do for random reasons).
3. Depending on the slope of the ramp, the guide posts should be high enough to that the boat stays reasonably straight, even if there are waves/current.

I also considered extra side bunks but I preferred the guide post solution overall. The bigger issue with this model is that the boat width sweeps narrower towards the stern. So the posts aren't tight against the boat at the stern. But should still help at the worst point when you're about to crank it up the trailer since the widest point is near the driver seat.

docp2000 · Jan 16, 2019

Could you tell me how did you removed the original cup holders?? Thanks

Rtimleck · Jan 16, 2019

If you wait long enough they will fall out on there own .

Luc Lafreniere · Jan 16, 2019

lol well mine definitely did NOT fall out on their own. They were really well glued using double sided tape under the rims of each cup. I simply took a flat head screw driver and slowly pried each cup CAREFULLY. I also put a rag so not to scratch the fiberglass. It probably helps if it's a warm day or if you heat them up first with a hair blower to soften the adhesive. But with a bit of patience, they all came out pretty well.

Rtimleck · Jan 16, 2019

That's good to hear. I would say all but one of mine rattled loose the second year with the boat .

Luc Lafreniere · Jan 17, 2019

That's hilarious but weird. Mine were like, superglued to the hull. I think I cracked at least one of them while doing it, but I wasn't super careful about the cups since I was replacing them anyways.

docp2000 · Jan 23, 2019

Luc Lafreniere said:
lol well mine definitely did NOT fall out on their own. They were really well glued using double sided tape under the rims of each cup. I simply took a flat head screw driver and slowly pried each cup CAREFULLY. I also put a rag so not to scratch the fiberglass. It probably helps if it's a warm day or if you heat them up first with a hair blower to soften the adhesive. But with a bit of patience, they all came out pretty well.

Thank you for the help!!!

Luc Lafreniere · Jan 23, 2019

Hooray! "Everything is awesome! Everything is cool when you're part of a team!"

Luc Lafreniere · Mar 6, 2019

And some more work, but no official final results before you get too excited.

I've been debating for quite a while to try and "soundproof" my 165. I haven't found anybody else who's done it so I recently decided to pull the trigger. Again, I have NO RESULTS yet... so all of this is not knowing how much of an improvement it will have in the end. But I will report back in the spring when we don't have 2+ ft of ice on the water.

First of all, I debated doing this last summer. So I took my phone, mounted it in its usual "place" which on the left of the steering wheel on a mount glued to the dash. I used an app called Physics Toolbox Sensor Suite on Android. It allows you to record decibel levels. Is this accurate? meh... but good enough. Not spending a fortune on a decibel meter.

I proceeded to perform various tests, see the graph for the details. Each test lasted about 50 seconds, thus giving me 10 seconds to switch to the next test. Note that it was pretty windy that day, so the ambient noise levels varied quite a bit. At the end of the test, the wind was a little quieter, so that ambient noise level is probably more accurate. While running, the phone is behind the dash, so wind noise should be a little minimized. For those that aren't aware, 3 decibels is equal to a DOUBLING of noise. So going from 90 to 93, you've doubled the noise levels. From 93 to 96, you've doubled again (i.e. 4X the noise of 90 decibels). So "small changes of 3db" is quite significant.

Now enter winter. I now store my boat inside my own garage (the beauty of a small boat I suppose). I decided I was going to finally install soundproofing. After a bunch of research in dynamat and all kinds of other soundproofing materials, I opted for something called Technicon FB1. TECHNICON #FB1, SOUND REDUCTION INSULATION. The Chandlery Online Note that I live in Ottawa, Canada. This store is local so I was able to pick up the material at the store. It's about 1" thick with a vinyl layer in the middle that is quite heavy. The idea is the weighted layer absorbs low frequencies (i.e. vibrations) while the foam absorbs high frequencies. The aluminum foil of course if for engine heat. I calculated that I would need 3 of these sheets (54"X32" each). I was correct. Had some waste of course, but in the end, needed three of those sheets and I've got about 1/3 of a sheet leftover to do this job.

To glue it, it was recommended I use a spray adhesive called 3M Super 77. This worked very well. Bought a big can of it and ended up having JUST the right amount to do the job while spraying both the foam AND the fiberglass on the boat (applying it to both surfaces helps adhesion and makes it quite a bit stronger).

First, disconnect the gas springs so you can open the hatch completely. I leaned it against my garage wall while I worked. I then proceeded to remove blower pipes, my custom cup holder drainage pipes and cup holders. Next, clean the surface well. Then, go at it! It takes a lot of work and patience (about 9h straight... I'm a little OCD... so yeah). It's also extremely uncomfortable. You can remove the hatch completely, that would help. But I didn't feel like doing that and didn't have the space to do it either. I stood inside the engine bay while working and straddled the engine. Careful not to damage anything.

I would eyeball each piece (I thought about a cardboard template... but decided that it would be more work to do that than to just eyeball each piece), cut with heavy duty scissors (the mass loaded vinyl in the middle is quite tough to cut) and fit/trim until the piece maximized the area to cover well. Once I had this, I would step off the boat, go onto my cardboard covered area, spray the adhesive on the foam and then on the boat. Follow the instructions by waiting a few minutes until it was very tacky (adhesive shouldn't transfer onto your knuckle when touching it). Then I would install the piece CAREFULLY. What I learned was that once it was in contact, it's NOT COMING OFF! lol It sticks incredibly well.... great! But tricky to install, especially around rounded corners. So patience as you're working. Make sure to apply lots of pressure everywhere to get good adhesion. Piece by piece, I managed to cover the whole hatch. Careful around the perimeter, if you go too far, you may have trouble closing the hatch. You can always trim afterwords if needed.

Once all of this was done, I then used mylar tape to cover every spot where two pieces met. Also, have to cut out a few holes for pipes, zip tie, ventilation, etc. Don't forget these.

I then did the back of the seating area behind the storage bag. Removed the storage bag (easy), I then cut a single, rectangular piece to fit that area as best as I could. I then did the adhesive once again, but this time, I punctured the soundproofing with the extra long storage bag bolts (why are these so long anyways? Worked in my favour... but weird.). This "hangs" the soundproofing quite well. Apply pressure to glue it everywhere. I then installed nuts and washers using those same bolts to secure it further. Then reinstalled the storage bag.

Finally, I got a hold of some old pillows (5 in total). I put them in heavy duty garbage bags and squished them under the seats between the gas tank and the fiberglass (3 of them). I also put one in between the fiberglass inside the gunwales. The plan is to test with and without the pillows to see if that makes any difference at all. If it doesn't, I'll remove them. If it does, then I'm probably going to get better bags than garbage bags since garbage bags puncture easily with exposed, non-rolled fiberglass. I don't want the pillows to get wet. Alternatively, find some more foam and stuff it in there. But foam isn't cheap as I've discovered and I don't want to invest in more foam when pillows can achieve something similar.

When all of this was done, I discovered that my gas springs weren't strong enough to lift the hatch by itself (it used to, although very slowly and sometimes wouldn't depending on outside air temperature). So I replaced the two springs with stronger ones (90 OEM to 120lbs each... this is frankly too much. If I had to buy those again, I'd buy no more than 110lbs). It now pops up REALLY fast lol Video: https://photos.app.goo.gl/vcrfYweHiCcrvsue8 The reason I saw these are too strong, I noticed that the top brackets on the top of the springs was bending outwards a bit. My gas spring would pop off when it was bent too far out. So I flopped the ball joint around towards the inside of the boat, thus counter acting the bending action and now keeping the brackets straight. This worked wonderfully and didn't take much work.

I'm very curious to see how much of a difference this will all make. I somehow suspect that the phone won't measure a big difference, partially because wind dominates a lot of the noise at speed but partially because I think a lot of the noise comes from low frequencies (like vibrations) and I don't think the phone can pick this up very well. Every person that has done soundproofing (including manufacturers) thinks it makes a pretty big difference obviously, but nobody seems to be able to quantify it since it's so unique for each boat. I suspect I'll see the biggest difference at idle or slow speeds. But at high speed, I suspect the engine noise will still be drowned out by wind noise anyways. We'll see....

My plan is to do the same tests this spring and rebuild that chart. I'll report back whenever that is... probably late May if this damn cold weather goes away (-13C today 8.6F).

Hopefully other boat owners and specifically 165 owners will find this useful or at least entertaining (Why did this idiot do all of this? Won't make a lick of a difference!). lol

Sorry for the long post, but I got frustrated finding incomplete details from all kinds of forums on this type of work. People aren't specific and I feel so frustrated when I'm trying to understand things.

gRobi · Mar 7, 2019

Very very nice, thanks for sharing and all the detail.

I think it will make a big difference, especially in combination with those pillows. I have a 165 and a newer 215 (OEM soundproof) recognising a good difference and I think the blocking your pillows do would improve it further.

wango tango · Mar 7, 2019

Luc Lafreniere said:
And some more work, but no official final results before you get too excited.

I've been debating for quite a while to try and "soundproof" my 165. I haven't found anybody else who's done it so I recently decided to pull the trigger. Again, I have NO RESULTS yet... so all of this is not knowing how much of an improvement it will have in the end. But I will report back in the spring when we don't have 2+ ft of ice on the water.

First of all, I debated doing this last summer. So I took my phone, mounted it in its usual "place" which on the left of the steering wheel on a mount glued to the dash. I used an app called Physics Toolbox Sensor Suite on Android. It allows you to record decibel levels. Is this accurate? meh... but good enough. Not spending a fortune on a decibel meter.

I proceeded to perform various tests, see the graph for the details. Each test lasted about 50 seconds, thus giving me 10 seconds to switch to the next test. Note that it was pretty windy that day, so the ambient noise levels varied quite a bit. At the end of the test, the wind was a little quieter, so that ambient noise level is probably more accurate. While running, the phone is behind the dash, so wind noise should be a little minimized. For those that aren't aware, 3 decibels is equal to a DOUBLING of noise. So going from 90 to 93, you've doubled the noise levels. From 93 to 96, you've doubled again (i.e. 4X the noise of 90 decibels). So "small changes of 3db" is quite significant.

Now enter winter. I now store my boat inside my own garage (the beauty of a small boat I suppose). I decided I was going to finally install soundproofing. After a bunch of research in dynamat and all kinds of other soundproofing materials, I opted for something called Technicon FB1. TECHNICON #FB1, SOUND REDUCTION INSULATION. The Chandlery Online Note that I live in Ottawa, Canada. This store is local so I was able to pick up the material at the store. It's about 1" thick with a vinyl layer in the middle that is quite heavy. The idea is the weighted layer absorbs low frequencies (i.e. vibrations) while the foam absorbs high frequencies. The aluminum foil of course if for engine heat. I calculated that I would need 3 of these sheets (54"X32" each). I was correct. Had some waste of course, but in the end, needed three of those sheets and I've got about 1/3 of a sheet leftover to do this job.

To glue it, it was recommended I use a spray adhesive called 3M Super 77. This worked very well. Bought a big can of it and ended up having JUST the right amount to do the job while spraying both the foam AND the fiberglass on the boat (applying it to both surfaces helps adhesion and makes it quite a bit stronger).

First, disconnect the gas springs so you can open the hatch completely. I leaned it against my garage wall while I worked. I then proceeded to remove blower pipes, my custom cup holder drainage pipes and cup holders. Next, clean the surface well. Then, go at it! It takes a lot of work and patience (about 9h straight... I'm a little OCD... so yeah). It's also extremely uncomfortable. You can remove the hatch completely, that would help. But I didn't feel like doing that and didn't have the space to do it either. I stood inside the engine bay while working and straddled the engine. Careful not to damage anything.

I would eyeball each piece (I thought about a cardboard template... but decided that it would be more work to do that than to just eyeball each piece), cut with heavy duty scissors (the mass loaded vinyl in the middle is quite tough to cut) and fit/trim until the piece maximized the area to cover well. Once I had this, I would step off the boat, go onto my cardboard covered area, spray the adhesive on the foam and then on the boat. Follow the instructions by waiting a few minutes until it was very tacky (adhesive shouldn't transfer onto your knuckle when touching it). Then I would install the piece CAREFULLY. What I learned was that once it was in contact, it's NOT COMING OFF! lol It sticks incredibly well.... great! But tricky to install, especially around rounded corners. So patience as you're working. Make sure to apply lots of pressure everywhere to get good adhesion. Piece by piece, I managed to cover the whole hatch. Careful around the perimeter, if you go too far, you may have trouble closing the hatch. You can always trim afterwords if needed.

Once all of this was done, I then used mylar tape to cover every spot where two pieces met. Also, have to cut out a few holes for pipes, zip tie, ventilation, etc. Don't forget these.

I then did the back of the seating area behind the storage bag. Removed the storage bag (easy), I then cut a single, rectangular piece to fit that area as best as I could. I then did the adhesive once again, but this time, I punctured the soundproofing with the extra long storage bag bolts (why are these so long anyways? Worked in my favour... but weird.). This "hangs" the soundproofing quite well. Apply pressure to glue it everywhere. I then installed nuts and washers using those same bolts to secure it further. Then reinstalled the storage bag.

Finally, I got a hold of some old pillows (5 in total). I put them in heavy duty garbage bags and squished them under the seats between the gas tank and the fiberglass (3 of them). I also put one in between the fiberglass inside the gunwales. The plan is to test with and without the pillows to see if that makes any difference at all. If it doesn't, I'll remove them. If it does, then I'm probably going to get better bags than garbage bags since garbage bags puncture easily with exposed, non-rolled fiberglass. I don't want the pillows to get wet. Alternatively, find some more foam and stuff it in there. But foam isn't cheap as I've discovered and I don't want to invest in more foam when pillows can achieve something similar.

When all of this was done, I discovered that my gas springs weren't strong enough to lift the hatch by itself (it used to, although very slowly and sometimes wouldn't depending on outside air temperature). So I replaced the two springs with stronger ones (90 OEM to 120lbs each... this is frankly too much. If I had to buy those again, I'd buy no more than 110lbs). It now pops up REALLY fast lol Video: https://photos.app.goo.gl/vcrfYweHiCcrvsue8 The reason I saw these are too strong, I noticed that the top brackets on the top of the springs was bending outwards a bit. My gas spring would pop off when it was bent too far out. So I flopped the ball joint around towards the inside of the boat, thus counter acting the bending action and now keeping the brackets straight. This worked wonderfully and didn't take much work.

I'm very curious to see how much of a difference this will all make. I somehow suspect that the phone won't measure a big difference, partially because wind dominates a lot of the noise at speed but partially because I think a lot of the noise comes from low frequencies (like vibrations) and I don't think the phone can pick this up very well. Every person that has done soundproofing (including manufacturers) thinks it makes a pretty big difference obviously, but nobody seems to be able to quantify it since it's so unique for each boat. I suspect I'll see the biggest difference at idle or slow speeds. But at high speed, I suspect the engine noise will still be drowned out by wind noise anyways. We'll see....

My plan is to do the same tests this spring and rebuild that chart. I'll report back whenever that is... probably late May if this damn cold weather goes away (-13C today 8.6F).

Hopefully other boat owners and specifically 165 owners will find this useful or at least entertaining (Why did this idiot do all of this? Won't make a lick of a difference!). lol

Sorry for the long post, but I got frustrated finding incomplete details from all kinds of forums on this type of work. People aren't specific and I feel so frustrated when I'm trying to understand things.

Good work!!!

AirGreg · Apr 3, 2019

Luc Lafreniere said:
So I've been working for a few days on my 2015 165 . Got most of the work done.

- Replaced the two really crappy speakers that were installed by the previous owner. Now 200W peak (100W RMS) each.
- Added two more speakers on the sides .This required new holes.
- snaked all wires to the battery area and zip tied everything. Also ignition wire to back.
- 500W bluetooth only amp installed near battery. Snaked controls back to dash and installed in a new hole.
- May not have a super fancy audio system, but it's waaaay better than before. I just wanted bluetooth so this simplified things.
- I removed the old crappy stereo head unit from the side of the console and cut a new hole and installed a hatch instead like the 2018 models. This cleans up wiring behind big time and make the storage wctuactu usable .
- Installed a USB dual port on the dash. It also shows the current battery voltage which is awesome.
- I installed a sonar phone SP200 box .You can see it on the side of the console. It's hidden when the hood is closed but allow me to reach the on off button without opening the hood. This model uses my phone as the display. I have yet to test it since I have to test the transducer location first. Hoping to do a through the hull installation without drilling holes.
- Replaced factory cup holders with stainless models. These new ones have holes to let water drain. Swim deck ones I added hoses so they drain to the bilge and not on the motor.
- Got an anchor buddy
- installed a spare tire

I still have toninstall my boat buckles and trailer guide posts but that will wait since I'm about to move to a new home in a couple of weeks .

It's been an interesting set of projects but happy with the results. Thanks to everyone for measurements over the winter. They were useful .

Thats a really good job on the boat. Like the cup holders, looks much better. And you right, bugs me that water is going on the engine. I have to ask if you figured out how to get power at the console? Is there any cables you pulling 12v from? I looked at that amp and its nice with the controls. But I ended up getting an amp with only Bluetooth and no controls so use the phone, wish I went your way. And like the phone charger in front as well. But sound is good. I got the boss speakers (same specs as yours) but with led lights in them. Looks really cool at night and can control colors with them with remote. The only thing I would really like to do is move the battery switch so its accessible from driver seat to avoid open up the hood every time I start or use second battery for stereo. But, might have to do this some time this season

. I'm dying to know if the sound level from the engine went down. Thats a big downside with 165, its a fairly loud noise from the engine.

Luc Lafreniere · Apr 4, 2019

I simply spliced one of the 12V + wires coming into the console. I don't remember which one, but you can use whatever one you want. I used it to bring the power to my USB/volt meter plug. The bluetooth controller was its own, separate wire that goes all the way to the amp near the battery.

Yeah, I'm happy I went with controls because I often use the Navionics app and transducer (Vexilar). My phone is completely full. It's nice that my wife or I can skip songs, adjust volume, etc. without having to hide my current screen. Nice with the LEDs... I just don't do much with the boat at night at all, so it wasn't a must have by any means.

Trust me, as soon as I can go boating safely on the lakes/rivers, I'll be out to test the soundproofing. It's the number 1 thing I want to do. I'll definitely report back once I have results. But don't expect anything until around mid-may. We've had a very cold winter and very slow spring thaw here in Ontario, Canada. Ice is very slowly melting...

Luc Lafreniere · Jun 13, 2019

So.... I FINALLY got to test out my soundproofing. Sorry for the huge delay. We've had epic floods up here in the Ottawa/Ontario region. Boat bans on my nearest body of water. They've finally been lifted so I got out last night.

I couldn't remember the exact testing I did last year, so I did something very similar. I then plotted the results together and time shifted each test. As you can see, the tests aren't identical (didn't do a max RPM/speed last year for example) and time periods aren't quite identical. But I think this graph shows the results quite well.

Dislcaimer: I used two different phones for this test. A Nexus 6P (no soundproofing) and a Pixel 3XL (soundproofed). Both times, the phone was placed in the exact same location via a phone mount I have (just left of the steering wheel). Conditions were different. There was much more wind during the soundproofed test which can be easily observed during the Ambient period at the start and end. There were also more waves/choppier waters.

With all that being said, as I predicted, the wind noise dominates at higher speeds and the engine noise is insignificant. So if you're looking to quiet down your engine at higher speeds, it just won't matter. BUT at lower speeds, not bad at all! At idle (1700RPM), the noise dropped from 91db to about 81 db. After reading up on db, 3 db = a double of energy BUT in order for the human ear to perceive a doubling, you need to drop by about 10db. So although it's a reduction of about 8X the noise energy, the noise level dropped by about half of what it was to the human ear. As you can see, as you speed up, then other noises come into play and the difference is reduced by the time you get to high speeds.

Is it worth the investment and work? Good question. lol I'll let you decide. But it's the first actual data I've seen on soundproofing the 165.

James McDougall · Jun 13, 2019

to be fair, 10db is actually a very significant amount of noise reduction. Very interesting and thank you for sharing!

Scarab 165 Mods

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