2016 AR192 won't start (and other problems :))

[ellj]

Hi All! I've had a heck of a time with a new to me 2016 AR192.

Scroll to bottom for current issue, or read on for full history.

I started having issues where the boat would not get above ~6000 RPM and ~28 MPH at WOT. If the boat was full (8 people) it would not get more than ~13 MPH and 6000 RPM. It was almost like the boat was governed at 6000 RPM.

To date I have done the following:

• Oil and filter change
• Spark plugs have been replaced
• Compression test passed
• Verified clean out plug is in (and did refurb kit)
• Replaced supercharger clutch
• Added BOV and K&N filter
• Verified no obstructions in jet pump
• Replaced wear ring
• Added seafoam to fuel

None of these did anything major to fix performance. :-(

Next I pulled the fuel pump and cleaned out the fuel filter.

Before cleaning:



After cleaning with seafoam:



Put everything back together. No improvement in MPH/RPM performance but the engine did seem to run noticeably quieter/smoother after cleaning out the filter.

Next I started checking individual cylinder performance by pulling the plug to each coil while running the engine. Pulling Cyl 1, 3, and 4 made the engine sound noticeably different. When I pulled the plug for Cyl 2 there was no change to how the engine was running. So we assumed the issue lies in Cyl 2.

I swap the coil pack between Cyl 1 and 2 to see if it is the coil and Cyl 2 remained the issue.

I pull the fuel injector for Cyl 2 and spray some carb cleaner through using something like this. Put the engine back together and woah everything is great again. 40+ mph and 7000+ RPM. This seems to all make sense! Bad injector -> cylinder not firing -> low RPM/MPH. Wish I had done this earlier...

We are out for about ~5 minutes at these speeds when speed and RPM start dropping. We figure it is the flaky injector being flaky and turn back knowing we probably just need to replace that injector.

Present Problem: Suddenly while heading back the boat stalls. Try to restart engine and it won't go. The engine will crank but won't start. Troubleshot all the usual suspects (fuel is at 1/4, throttle is in neutral, kill switch clip is in, swim deck hatch is fully secure) but can't get engine started. Ended up getting towed back to dock.

So jetboaters... where do I go from here? I don't think one bad injector would cause this problem of not being able to start so it has to be elsewhere or in something else I touched.

While waiting for my trailer to get the boat out of the water I tried starting the boat with the fuel pump unplugged. The engine sounded identical to when the fuel pump is plugged in so I am assuming the issue in the engine not starting is in getting fuel to the engine.

What would first step be to troubleshoot the fuel pump? How do I make sure the fuel pump is getting power? Is there any way to test the fuel pump itself?

What else should I be checking?

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Do you have stale fuel or water in the tank, after all you did I would remove the fuel completely inspect the tank for any debris in there . Dirt sand etc. also just to be safe check all your exhaust hose clamps for exhaust leaks that will really hurt your engine performance. Also clean all the ground cables to your engine and all your electrical connections to the coils and injectors and spray them with silicon just in case something got wet.

 

[ellj]

@Cobra Jet Steering LLC thanks will do

I just stuck multimeter on plug going to fuel pump and I'm seeing zero volts when I go to start engine. I'm assuming right now no power is getting to fuel pump.

Anyone know how to test the relay? Looks like it has four prongs on it but not sure what/how to test

 

[ellj]

Drained fuel tank. Did not seem like there was anything super untoward down there. Got a little dirt/debris up, looked same color and consistency as came out of the filter.

 

[Robconn]

I have noticed a slight loss of power in my 2016 ar192. Not as severe as yours. After replacing spark plugs and fuel filter still no improvement. Top speed WOT is 32-35 mph. When I remember it was 45-47ish. Ever since my timing chain was replaced due to total engine failure (all under warranty) at 70 hrs on engine, tachometer and speeds were not the same as before engine rebuild. The service manager does not seem to think loss of power Is related to upgraded timing chain and engine rebuild. I do not know what to think. Any suggestions are certainly welcome.

 

[ellj]

Replaced fuel pump relay and got it started

 

[ellj]

Same issue again. Going to replace fuel pump, maybe did not get it back together right.

 

[Wake_Dude]

I have noticed a slight loss of power in my 2016 ar192. Not as severe as yours. After replacing spark plugs and fuel filter still no improvement. Top speed WOT is 32-35 mph. When I remember it was 45-47ish. Ever since my timing chain was replaced due to total engine failure (all under warranty) at 70 hrs on engine, tachometer and speeds were not the same as before engine rebuild. The service manager does not seem to think loss of power Is related to upgraded timing chain and engine rebuild. I do not know what to think. Any suggestions are certainly welcome.

What is your max RPM?

Are you burning any oil? How does your oil smell? Does it overly smell like gas? If so, that's an indicator of blow-by which will rob a lot of power. How many hours on the rebuild? Not sure of the extent of your rebuild, but it could be possible your rings are not seated yet/correctly (if you had piston/cylinder work). If your rebuild did not have anything to do with the cylinders/pistons, you may have blow-by related to excessive wear, cracked/chipped ring, cylinder issues etc. You could also do a compression check.

^^^^ I'm mentioning the above only if all of the usual suspects were checked first. I.e. oil level, spark plugs, air box, supercharger clutch, yada, yada, etc, etc. which it sounds like you are keen on those.

 

[ellj]

What is your max RPM?

Are you burning any oil? How does your oil smell? Does it overly smell like gas? If so, that's an indicator of blow-by which will rob a lot of power. How many hours on the rebuild? Not sure of the extent of your rebuild, but it could be possible your rings are not seated yet/correctly (if you had piston/cylinder work). If your rebuild did not have anything to do with the cylinders/pistons, you may have blow-by related to excessive wear, cracked/chipped ring, cylinder issues etc. You could also do a compression check.

^^^^ I'm mentioning the above only if all of the usual suspects were checked first. I.e. oil level, spark plugs, air box, supercharger clutch, yada, yada, etc, etc. which it sounds like you are keen on those.

Compression check came back good.

My hunch is right now the problem all along was a failed injector.

I didn't figure out the injector part until I'd done the rest including the fuel pump filter clean out. That's when I started blowing fuel pump relays...

So going to replace the whole fuel pump (assuming I screwed up the reassembly of it) and see if that solves it.

 

[Robconn]

What is your max RPM?

Are you burning any oil? How does your oil smell? Does it overly smell like gas? If so, that's an indicator of blow-by which will rob a lot of power. How many hours on the rebuild? Not sure of the extent of your rebuild, but it could be possible your rings are not seated yet/correctly (if you had piston/cylinder work). If your rebuild did not have anything to do with the cylinders/pistons, you may have blow-by related to excessive wear, cracked/chipped ring, cylinder issues etc. You could also do a compression check.

^^^^ I'm mentioning the above only if all of the usual suspects were checked first. I.e. oil level, spark plugs, air box, supercharger clutch, yada, yada, etc, etc. which it sounds like you are keen on those.

Whole top end of engine rebuilt. Probably 50 hrs on new engine. Started to notice reduction in speed when boat came back from shop. Replaced sparks and air filter at beginning of This season. I’ll look at oil to be sure. Had boat out on windless day, no chop last week. At 7k rpms got 30 mph, at 5k, 15mph.
thank you for your help. I’ll keep you posted.

 

[Kevin1741]

I have noticed a slight loss of power in my 2016 ar192. Not as severe as yours. After replacing spark plugs and fuel filter still no improvement. Top speed WOT is 32-35 mph. When I remember it was 45-47ish. Ever since my timing chain was replaced due to total engine failure (all under warranty) at 70 hrs on engine, tachometer and speeds were not the same as before engine rebuild. The service manager does not seem to think loss of power Is related to upgraded timing chain and engine rebuild. I do not know what to think. Any suggestions are certainly welcome.

I have noticed a slight loss of power in my 2016 ar192. Not as severe as yours. After replacing spark plugs and fuel filter still no improvement. Top speed WOT is 32-35 mph. When I remember it was 45-47ish. Ever since my timing chain was replaced due to total engine failure (all under warranty) at 70 hrs on engine, tachometer and speeds were not the same as before engine rebuild. The service manager does not seem to think loss of power Is related to upgraded timing chain and engine rebuild. I do not know what to think. Any suggestions are certainly welcome.

hello, im supposed to buy a 2016 ar192 tomorrow. I was under the impression that the timing chain issue was resolved for the 2016 MY. Please advise. Might have to back out. Thanks

 

[ellj]

Update...

End of the day I am 99% sure I had a bad fuel injector which caused the loss of RPM/speed.

In the diagnosis process we took apart the fuel pump to the clean fuel pump filter.

After taking apart and re-assembling the fuel pump the relay for it blew twice.

I have now replaced the entire fuel pump assembly and ran the boat on land for a little over an hour without an issue. Will try dropping it in the water tomorrow. FWIW, there is an updated part number from Yamaha for the fuel pump (6AP-13907-04-00)... not sure what is different.

If anyone lands on this thread looking for alternative diagnosis on loss of RPM/speed issues:

- While boat is running pull the power to each cylinder one at a time. If the engine sounds like shit after you pull the power that cylinder is properly functioning. If the engine has no change in sound it means that cylinder was not firing. Now you have a process of elimination of swapping the spark plug and injector from that bad cylinder with that of a known working cylinder until you can isolate it down to if it is the plug or injector. I strongly recommend this diagnostic step before going in on the supercharger replacement.

- If you decide to clean the fuel pump filter my recommendation is to pull the entire assembly out intact and put it in a bucket with a few inches of seafoam in the bottom. Swap the seafoam out every 15-30 minutes until the filter looks cleaner. Don't dissemble the fuel pump

 

[Robconn]

hello, im supposed to buy a 2016 ar192 tomorrow. I was under the impression that the timing chain issue was resolved for the 2016 MY. Please advise. Might have to back out. Thanks

Not necessarily. It was extremely low occurrence on the 16’s. At some point Yamaha started to install the 5 link timing chains in the 16’s. And it may have been done after purchase. My chain went at 70 hrs / 2 year mark. The chains if they were going to snap occurred with Low hours. It’s been 5 yrs, I would be willing to bet you won’t win the lottery like I did. I was told to get the engine build date under the engine cover. Should be stamped on engine. The build date will help you determine if you have 4 link or 5 link factory installed. I don’t know what the date should be. I know my boat itself has a build date of March 16 on the title work. So I assume the engine predates that. I’m actually going to pull my cover when I get to the boat as I had a member on the forum interested in the actual date. I will keep you posted. I was the only boat at the marina shop that they had to rebuild engine due to timing chain. Service manager who I trust, said it’s the first he has come across the issue. You are doing your due diligence. You can call Yamaha and see what they have to say if the inevitable happens if the would partially pay for repair out of warranty. It won’t cost to ask. In some cases on this forum I have heard of Yamaha doing so. But not sure if it was to prevent class action lawsuits. It never materialized so I think the issue was extremely low.

 

[ellj]

Update on this thread.

Put it back in water but still had problems getting up to speed/RPM.

Finally gave up and took it to a dealer.

They looked at it for a while, and talked with and sent logs to Yamaha.

They new diagnosis is currently an intercooler leak and are fairly confident this is the issue.

This makes sense at the end of the day... fuel, spark, and air are the three things for an engine.

I had already pretty exhaustively addressed fuel (injector replacement, fuel pump replacement) and spark (plug replacement).

Air side I had done the supercharger replacement, but I guess there was still something (air) missing from the triad.

So cautionary tale out there to those with low speed/RPM that it could be a leaking intercooler in a supercharged boat (but there are a bunch more likely things)