2019 242se sound system

[jocolo21]

Very disappointing, the sound is good but weak,
As far i can tell

• 6 Wet Sounds XS Series Silver Grill 6.5 2 cockpit, 2 bow, 2 swimplatform
• 1 10" free air sub next to the pax seat
• 1 Hydro-Tech™ Series Amplifiers by Wet Sounds™
  SBT-HT600-00-13 6 chsnnel asmp.
• fusion ms-ra70n head unit

so 6 channel amp for 6 speakers and a sub? lol, cant h=even hear any base on it.
I contacted creativeaudio.net, i always get me stuff from there to see what the best course of action will be to add 2 rev10 to the tower, also asked about the soundbar they said definitely no, that it will be miss matched.
waiting on the about what amp or 2 i will need. I have a 12" wetsound sub on a bazzoka tube 4 jl 7.7 cans, a ws preamp and 2 jl amps from my 20 ar230 that i removed.

i coluld save money and use the jl amp and the tower cans, or you guys think i should go all wetsound?
what i have at home.

• 1 × Wet Sounds 12" Marine Class 1000 Watt Subwoofer, 4 Ohm
  
  
• 1 × JL Audio XD700/5v2: 5 Ch. Class D System Amplifier 700 W
  
• 1 × JL Audio XD700/5: 5 Ch. Class D System Amplifier 700 W
  
• Wet Sounds 4 Band EQ w/ 3 zone control
  
• 4 JL Audio MX Series 7.7-inch

 

[jcyamaharider]

I would have to 100% disagree with the sound bar comment. That thing is loud and fills in sound nicely when powered correctly. ( edit* my sound bar faces forward ) I do not need any sound with 2 rev 10's facing the rear.

I would use what you have..... why spend money when not needed. Use it for other mods.

Alot of this sound is from the 10" soundbar ( half volume )

 

[JBehrens]

If you have the JL stuff already, I would just install that. IMO the JL's sound better then WetSounds but it's all personal preference.

 

[jocolo21]

Alright so i installed Rv10's ran the wires, and i was going to add my jl amps rewire the ws 6.6 and so, the ran into a corner.

1. fusion unit does not have RCA plugs
2. the Wet Sound HTX6 PSD OE amp the last 2 channels the plug only has 2 wires coming out. I doesnt even has the gain controllers or anything for that matter, yes i lifted the cover, pic shpown with out cover.

so i was just going to remove the OEM amp and add mine but i cant connect because no RCA's, maybe im drowning in a glass of water but cant figure this outy.
Any ideas?????

 

[JDRacing]

I wrote up my effort to figure all this out in a thread on my 2018 212X with the same amp you have. All inputs to the amp are speaker level, not line level. Thats why there are no RCA inputs at the amp. They use proprietary Yamaha connectors. Gain control and input/output mapping are all accomplished by firmware flash at the factory.

Here is my effort to figure all this out and having conversations with Wet Sounds customer support. Perhaps it will give you a starting point:

https://jetboaters.net/threads/2018-212x-audio-system-brand-setup-change-from-2017.19663/

 

[swatski]

Just another reason to opt for base models when buying from them... SO not cool.

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[jocolo21]

thanks @JDRacing i still think the system is shit, i would have rather have a cheap system that i could easyly work with instead the smoke and mirrors wetsound that takes a rocket scientist to figure it out, im going to pull the Fusion stereo to see if indeed it had rca towire convertion other than that im looking at a new head unit.

 

[2kwik4u]

This feels very "OEM" style in terms of wiring. The BOSE systems in GM have been this way for years. Even down to proprietary 3.2Ohm speakers and crazy crap like that.

I wonder how much OEM's save by doing things "different" than industry standard? I've worked with some engineers that like to optimize the crap out of things, and it always ends up costing more than using COTS parts, as well as being a PIA to work on in the future. Surely that isn't the case here, and it's a cost savings at some level or another.

In another thought.......I'm really happy with my Wetsounds Stealth 10 soundbar, and would recommend keeping it. It is NOT very full sounding, but it will throw some volume out to get the music behind the boat.

 

[jocolo21]

ok so i pull some wiring from the head unit thinking , it will be wire to rca, like shown on the instruction manual but no, wires all the way to the amp.
Know the oem instrutions call for zone 1 rca amp out rca and powered subwoofer rca? but all wire lead to the wet sound amp? weird, i might go to west marine and just buy a new head unit.

 

[Mainah]

I recommend downloading the ms-r70n install manual from fusion. Make sure it is the n (nema manual) and the install manual as it details the output of the connectors. The output to the amp is rca line level based upon the ms-r70n install manual; it just uses the special plug instead of rca wires. It is possible to cut into the harness and add you own rca connectors to the ins of your new amp and then rcas spliced back into the harness attched to the pass through to feed the factory amp.

I would also fix the power and ground connections on that terrible and dangerous factory amp wiring job. Ferrules or tinned ends would be good but at the very least add some strain relief for those wires and reseat with the jacket flush to the terminal. Those wires look like they could pull out over time as they are now.

If anyone wants to get rid of their factory amp or headunit please do let me know.

 

[jocolo21]

This is what we are missing on the fusion head unit

 

[JDRacing]

I recommend downloading the ms-r70n install manual from fusion. Make sure it is the n (nema manual) and the install manual as it details the output of the connectors. The output to the amp is rca line level based upon the ms-r70n install manual; it just uses the special plug instead of rca wires. It is possible to cut into the harness and add you own rca connectors to the ins of your new amp and then rcas spliced back into the harness attched to the pass through to feed the factory amp.

I would also fix the power and ground connections on that terrible and dangerous factory amp wiring job. Ferrules or tinned ends would be good but at the very least add some strain relief for those wires and reseat with the jacket flush to the terminal. Those wires look like they could pull out over time as they are now.

If anyone wants to get rid of their factory amp or headunit please do let me know.

I'm not convinced that the inputs on the proprietary plug to the DSP version of tte Wet Sounds amp carries line level signals. In fact im pretty certain they are speaker level based on two things: (1) for the PA4A Polk head unit, the four pairs of speaker output wires in the standard colors are run directly to the input of the amp and the RCA line level connectors on the HU are unused and (2) the Wet Sounds tech person I talked to confirmed that the connection to the DSP version of the HTX-6 amp (i.e. the Yamaha OEM version in my boat and likely in@jocolo21's as well) uses speaker level inputs.

This OEM version of the amp has the same amplifier section as the consumer version of the HTX-6, but the OEM version (called the "DSP") is different in its input format and its tuning process, including crossovers and gain control, which are not user accessible. They have to be flashed in via firmware.

Of course there is always the possibility that the Fusion to DSP Wet Sound DSP is different than the amp used for the PA4A, but the pictures @jocolo21 posted of his amp connections looks exactly like mine.

 

[Mainah]

I'm not convinced that the inputs on the proprietary plug to the DSP version of tte Wet Sounds amp carries line level signals. In fact im pretty certain they are speaker level based on two things: (1) for the PA4A Polk head unit, the four pairs of speaker output wires in the standard colors are run directly to the input of the amp and the RCA line level connectors on the HU are unused and (2) the Wet Sounds tech person I talked to confirmed that the connection to the DSP version of the HTX-6 amp (i.e. the Yamaha OEM version in my boat and likely in@jocolo21's as well) uses speaker level inputs.

This OEM version of the amp has the same amplifier section as the consumer version of the HTX-6, but the OEM version (called the "DSP") is different in its input format and its tuning process, including crossovers and gain control, which are not user accessible. They have to be flashed in via firmware.

Of course there is always the possibility that the Fusion to DSP Wet Sound DSP is different than the amp used for the PA4A, but the pictures @jocolo21 posted of his amp connections looks exactly like mine.

Based on the documentation of the ms r70n the wires feed the amp are line level. It is possible the the WS DSP amp accepts both line level and speaker level as both are alternating current signals at different voltage ranges and the DSP can be programmed based on which it is receiving or even natively accept both and condition the signal prior going to the amp section based on only the gain parameter set by the installer. The ms- r70a has more line level output zones than the pa4a so it is possible that in order to zone out for the pa4a speaker level was used for that. It is easy enough to test the output of ms-r70 by unplugging the output and measuring the voltage from the back of the unit on a pair of pin outs with a multimeter while playing a 1k test tone at max volume from one of many available mobile apps. The WS DSP amp is being used as a factory installed item in some traditional wakeboard boats and you can find some forum articles about that. The design of the WS DSP amp is to prevent end users from adjusting settings that could harm things and to ensure consistently from the OEM. Programs are loaded from a laptop onto a device that WS sells to authorized installers and then the file is flashed into the amp from that device. If I were to get my hands on the amp, take off the cover and identify the DSP processor chip I could possibly get the configuration file format from the maker of that chip and create my own files in that format to install into the amp with a flash device (I am a coding uber geek with an electronics hobby). If not perhaps I could convince a WS installer to let me create my own tune using their equipment. The DSP simply takes the signal and conditions it based on the configuration parameters before sending it to the amplification section which is why there aren't any potentiometers or switches to adjust (gain, hp, lp, etc.).

While it sucks from the average end user extensibility aspect I think it is rather brilliant for WS to get into the OEM game having things locked down. I am sure the program/tune in the WS DSP is not for full optimal performance but rather a bit on the safe side which is not exactly a bad thing. My main gripe with the implementation on the Yamis is no set of RCA outputs to add another amp. Hopefully my thoughts help someone figure out how to get what they want without swapping everything out.

@jocolo21 - I am assuming what everyone is saying about there being not RCAs is correct but I have to ask what are those RCA connections next to the amp in the top right corner of one of your photos?

 

[JDRacing]

Thanks for the detailed explanation @Mainah. Looks like it is a function of the HU as to whether the WS DSP is seeing line level or speaker level inputs. On the case of the PA4A it is definitely seeing speaker level inputs. Apparently not the case with the Fusion setup

And yes, it surely does suck for a consumer with a basic understanding of audio systems (like me) to upgrade with additional amps and get rid of those series-wired speakers (as well as the complete miswiring I identified in my separate thread linked above).

Jeff

 

[jocolo21]

Ok so i bought another head unit just for the rca, the way the stock unit is the amp is connected to were the rca supposse to be the speakers come out from the same plug as the power ground etc, but they are plugged and sealed so no other cables are in the same plug so the convertion is at the rcca plug. i pulled the cable far enought to see that there is no rca's. so to west marine to pick up the last of the N models they had left.
pulled the rca plugs and proceeded to installed, i pulled the stock WS amp out. and will be connecting my jl 400/4 and jl 700/5 with the wet sound pre amp for now until i get another 700/5 and installed 2 more ws 6.5 and another ws 10" sub. that should be enough.
Tomorrow i will post progress.

 

[jocolo21]

@Mainah i checked the rca i couldnt find anything but i bel;ieve its for the gps antenna. Also anyone want the factory WS amp shoot me a reasonable offer

 

[swatski]

Ok so i bought another head unit just for the rca, the way the stock unit is the amp is connected to were the rca supposse to be the speakers come out from the same plug as the power ground etc, but they are plugged and sealed so no other cables are in the same plug so the convertion is at the rcca plug. i pulled the cable far enought to see that there is no rca's. so to west marine to pick up the last of the N models they had left.
pulled the rca plugs and proceeded to installed, i pulled the stock WS amp out. and will be connecting my jl 400/4 and jl 700/5 with the wet sound pre amp for now until i get another 700/5 and installed 2 more ws 6.5 and another ws 10" sub. that should be enough.
Tomorrow i will post progress.

Will that work with the connext and the swim deck remote? It should, right?

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[Mainah]

Will that work with the connext and the swim deck remote? It should, right?

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For boats that come with a nmea head unit any nmea head unit will work with connext. These head units are also installed on the swim deck and connext is really a helm remote.

 

[Mainah]

@Mainah i checked the rca i couldnt find anything but i bel;ieve its for the gps antenna. Also anyone want the factory WS amp shoot me a reasonable offer

Are you including the complete head unit to amp harness and a chopped off speaker harness for the amp with enoung to splice into? If not someone is going to have to do a lot of soldering direct on a sensitive amp board if unable to find those connectors.

Good luck with the full install. My guess is you already know this but that factory power will not handle all of that. Those mysterious rcas are interesting and if you confirm what they go to when pulling new wire please do let us know.

 

[jocolo21]

alright so this is what i found

1. the swim deck speakers are independent
2. the cockpit and bow speakers are in series
3. the remote (blue wire) wouldnt power with the rca plug. dont know why.

so i had to installed the new head unit, ran a 25" jl marine rca to the ws pre amp and proceeded to wire the 700/5 bridge to the rev10 tower and bridge the sub channel to the OEM ws sub. the 400/4 jl amp to power the 6 ws 6.5 already installed from the factory.
All i have to say its night and day sounds amazing and we havent tuned it yet.
On order is another 700/5 to replace the 400/4 jl amp and another 10" 2 ohms wet sound sub 300rms. i shoud]ld be happy with that for now ...