242x slipping

[jaburt]

my 242x is slipping when ballast full or a lot of people on board. Slips for a few seconds and once starts breaking over it quits. I feel like it may be sucking air. I have repaired pwcs with similar problems with pump stuffer kits. Has anyone else had slipping problems?

 

[swatski]

my 242x is slipping when ballast full or a lot of people on board. Slips for a few seconds and once starts breaking over it quits. I feel like it may be sucking air. I have repaired pwcs with similar problems with pump stuffer kits. Has anyone else had slipping problems?

There are no pump stuffer kits that I know of. Sounds like cavitation. Could be missing sealant around the transom plate / wear ring. It could be very little (that's missing).

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[Rod5]

I have the same issue with a combined heavy load of both people (5+ adults) and full factory ballast and extra 550 bag on the swim platform. Moving one or two willing adults up to the bow at take off will make a significant improvement. Once up on plane, then move them back to the rear to the rear for max wake. I will soon be doing the L13 cones mod and report any gains or not, per Swatski's testing results they sound promising to help mitigate this issue. For comparison I have just a little bit of slippage with the same full ballast and only 1 or 2 adults on board.

 

[Rod5]

Also not sure if you are rolling on the throttles at take off or slamming them? Rolling on moderately seems to help, as if it helps prevent the initial break loose... My slippage noticeably appeared when I did the ribbon deletes due to the significant midrange gains. I never really noticed it before the ribbon deletes... Again for comparison, don't know if you've done the ribbon deletes & air box boot removal or not.

 

[mraz72]

what does slipping mean? Is it hard to get on plane when you hit a certain weight? I know I've experienced that in my 192.

 

[Rod5]

Slipping comparable to when you loose traction in your car/truck during hard acceleration in wet or sandy conditions. When the prop(s) are spinning faster than they should be given the thrust output. When stopped punch it to full throttle, many times the boat will accelerate hard for an instant then suddenly, as the motor ramps up in the power curve, the props break loose (start slipping) rpms increase, but the acceleration feeling noticeably diminishes. Soon the rpms will drop as the props regain traction and hard acceleration feeling resumes... There are many variations from mild to wild (excessive), again very similar to loosing then regaining traction in your car/truck in wet conditions.

 

[swatski]

Also not sure if you are rolling on the throttles at take off or slamming them? Rolling on moderately seems to help, as if it helps prevent the initial break loose... My slippage noticeably appeared when I did the ribbon deletes due to the significant midrange gains. I never really noticed it before the ribbon deletes... Again for comparison, don't know if you've done the ribbon deletes & air box boot removal or not.

MAAAAAN. That sounds exactly like my 190 after ribbon and ECU reflash!

The L13 (and few other things) were the cure. Lets hope it works in the 240s, I will be testign my ballast as soon as we are out of the flood situation, which could be weeks.

But this is EXACTLY the scenario I anticipated, and why I got the L13s to start with.

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[swatski]

My more recent testing of the L13s in the 240 using "one engine at the time" approach indicates those cones should help A LOT in preventing slippage/cavitation when under extreme load.

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[props2you]

@swatski So is that a draw back to the ribbon delete, possible cavitation? Or does the ribbon delete cause or exacerbate cavitation just under HEAVY load, ballasts, bodies etc.

 

[swatski]

With the L13 cone and well adjusted impellers (and a reflash, but that's a different story) I was able to run my 190 up on plane with 1,800lbs of ballast, and then accelerate over 35mph. So, based on that, I predict we should be able to make the twins pull up with any amount of weight that is compatible with the boat floating with rear cleats above the waterline. I am currently rigged with about 3,000lbs, 2,400lbs of it integrated - hope this will be enough for anyone to go wakesurfing ropeless.

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[swatski]

@swatski So is that a draw back to the ribbon delete, possible cavitation? Or does the ribbon delete cause or exacerbate cavitation just under HEAVY load, ballasts, bodies etc.

Yes and no. It is the same as with a car - as you keep adding power/torque - you have to recalibrate traction control, somehow.
So, in some way - it is a problem that I would like to have!
That said, ribbon delete gives you a bit more power but itself is not a huge power booster, so I would not worry about that, alone.

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[Rod5]

@swatski So is that a draw back to the ribbon delete, possible cavitation? Or does the ribbon delete cause or exacerbate cavitation just under HEAVY load, ballasts, bodies etc.

Think of it like this... Does adding a cold air intake to your truck cause you to peal out more? Hopefully!! That means you got more power out of it so now you just need to manage it with a lighter foot, or bigger tires, or electronic traction control, etc.... Hopefully with L13's in this case...

 

[mraz72]

I've experienced that with 8 people on my 192. There isn't enough power to move the boat so you make a bunch of noise and the RPMs are up but the speed is slow. Once on place that issue goes away

is that basically slippage?

 

[jaburt]

My boat is still stock. So I think I either have sealant failure or sucking air from pockets in pump. I have made my own stuffers before just packing voids with proper silicone letting dry and cutting excess flat. What is ribbon delete, air box mod and L13s?

 

[swatski]

I've experienced that with 8 people on my 192. There isn't enough power to move the boat so you make a bunch of noise and the RPMs are up but the speed is slow. Once on place that issue goes away

is that basically slippage?

Yes it is slippage. It is not the lack of power but cavitation.
This can be a tough problem to tackle. It is roughly equivalent to traction control.

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[Ronnie]

Sounds like slipping and cavitation are the same thing.
The ribbon delete is the removal of the stock flame arrestor ribbons which are sometimes replaced with an open ring to make the transition between the parts that the flame arrestor ribbons used to occupy smooth. Not sure what the air box mod is but it could be the removal of the air filter entirely and the replacement of the stock filter with an aftermarket one that also acts as a flame arrestor for those that have done the ribbon delete. There is also a different shaped air filter and box that may improve air flow. The l13 mod is an adjustable cone to replace the stock / fixed cones at the end of the pump / before the steering nozzle.

I recommend that you take a good look at the reviews for these products since the cheapest one is the ribbon delete/replacement ring and that is still $50 per engine. Aftermarket air filters are $100 each and the cones are up there at $300 or so each don't recall exactly what the new air filter box costs but think it's over $200 per engine with the air filter included.

 

[MrMoose]

With the L13 cone and well adjusted impellers (and a reflash, but that's a different story) I was able to run my 190 up on plane with 1,800lbs of ballast, and then accelerate over 35mph. So, based on that, I predict we should be able to make the twins pull up with any amount of weight that is compatible with the boat floating with rear cleats above the waterline. I am currently rigged with about 3,000lbs, 2,400lbs of it integrated - hope this will be enough for anyone to go wakesurfing ropeless.

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Oh Gawwd, I just had a vision of Swatski running his sea trials with his lovely family sitting in the back of the boat... stop, go, stop, go....

 

[Rod5]

The air box mod is the removal of the restrictive boots at the air box opening to the outside air. Once the ribbon is removed the new air flow bottleneck is those boots. The air filters are already oversized so not any to gains by removing or switching to "highflow" air filters.

 

[Rod5]

Ribbon and restrictive boot removed.

 

[jaburt]

Gotcha on mods. I will pull both pumps and reseal and give that a try