Ar210 Tuning

[smythyone]

Anyone try out the magnum tuner for the AR210 with TR-1 engines? It says a 17% increase in both HP and TQ.

 

[smythyone]

Yamaha AR210 Jetboat MAGNUM Smart-Tune-X Boat Fuel Tuner Performance Module

Your AR210 Jetboat is starving for race-inspired horsepower? We sell first-rate Yamaha Fuel Tune ECU Chips. FREE shipping. Magnum brand stands alone when performance is what you are after.

www.magnumtuning.com

 

[Evil Sports]

Always wary of large percent gains on normally aspirated ECU tunes.

 

[HangOutdoors]

I haven't seen any reviews on it except from their website. Would be great if it did do something. Guess we would need real world actual install reviews.

 

[Babin Farms]

Not really sure what more HP is going to do for you, maybe get up & going a bit quicker but you are limited by your impellers. Your not going to see an increase in top end speed unless you get different impellers that match the HP rating to move more water efficiently.

 

[Brad460]

Not really sure what more HP is going to do for you, maybe get up & going a bit quicker but you are limited by your impellers. Your not going to see an increase in top end speed unless you get different impellers that match the HP rating to move more water efficiently.

More HP would allow the boat to reach its max capable speed with additional weight in the boat...

 

[HangOutdoors]

That would be a game changer for the AR210 / SX210 and FSH210

 

[TimmyG]

So, did you order one? You should feel a 40hp difference if those claims are legit.

 

[HangOutdoors]

I did not. Was waiting to see more reviews on it.

 

[BHudson]

Thought I would ask this question again to see if anyone has tried the Magnum Tuner? My goal would be to add some hp for getting a loaded boat on plane a little quicker.

Yamaha AR240 24 MAGNUM Dyno-Boost Boat Performance Chip (magnumtuning.com)

 

[lazergeek]

It looks like you need one of the magical devices per engine, Also not a fan of having to cut sensor wires to splice in there device. I like how it says +6% fuel efficiency gain but then says its programmer tricks the ecu into a richer mix which is using more fuel. I call BS on all of there claims. Especially since its just a dial knob that says try each setting to see what you like.

 

[84rzv500r]

hmmm... just standing on the outside looking in... so since you are not making any mechanical changes to the engine all the gains HAVE to come from the control system... is there 15-17% more in these engines just in fuel and timing maps? and can you get the optimal cells by changing the inputs to the ECU? lets think about this a little bit.

Let's pick on the MR-1 HO for a moment as I am reasonably familiar at this point. So we have available to us MAP/IAT, Throttle Position, engine temp, exhaust water jacket temp, cam position, ignition pulse, and oil pressure inputs available. there is NO mass airflow or O2 sensor so this is NOT a closed LOOP engine. it runs OPEN LOOP... there is also no Knock sensor so how to make more power with NO internal changes?

You could adjust Fuel (injector pulse width) and and Spark advance in a stock set up that's about it... and to do that you have to flash a new map or manipulate the inputs you have to pick those out of a table in the ECU if the ECU control program will even do that (I suspect that it has some limited ability to do that as it uses the off throttle steering system and the no wake mode signals to do just that with the bypass servo so maybe two maps available or just rpm control loop)... anecdotally have had experience in an engine development program for my Motorcycle racing actives... we finished up looking for 1/8 to 1/4 HP per cylinder improvements just under 300HP/Liter so that was 499cc pumping out 145 ish at thee crank and 110 and change at the rear wheel with stock reliability (the list of mods would fill a two stroke tuning text book and yes you can cheat by bumping the displacement and/or fitting cylinders from a 3MA TZ250 with much more transfer port area which we worked out you get 2x the 80+ RWHP of a pair of TZ250's (and only one set of transmission losses) but then you get the TZ 250 engine maintenance schedule who needs 168 RWHP on a 320 lb bike... its way beyond my riding capability at 100%) we made 100's of dyno pulls and three custom programed computers to control the ignition map, Powervalve map and and the human in the loop LOL, it reved so fast we lit a light 500 RPM early to indicate the shift point and a big red light 500 RPM before over stressing the cranks.

Getting back on track... Remember the MR-1 is detuned (RPM and one of the camshafts is different IIRC) and re-tuned from its Motorcycle version to a reliable continuous maximum power output of 117Kw and change with a unlimited supply of cooling water playing the 140 F outlet temp game...

There's a couple things you can do for these MR1 engines however i dont think your gonna get a 15% improvement, externally a free flow airfilter and a larger volume/less restrictive exhaust. I used the 4" 1200cc two stroke exhaust after the stock MR1 HO 3" header/collector setup. I also bumped up the fuel pressure 3PSI to fatten the mixture a bit to keep them from leaning out over 9500 RPM (I suspect I have a few wonky fuel injectors)

so 117Kw with a 15% gain is 135Kw so that what 180HP... thats a suspicious number... looks alot like a 1.8 SVO's output..

so since the Theory section of those products was not currently available im a bit skeptical...

 

[BHudson]

It looks like you need one of the magical devices per engine, Also not a fan of having to cut sensor wires to splice in there device. I like how it says +6% fuel efficiency gain but then says its programmer tricks the ecu into a richer mix which is using more fuel. I call BS on all of there claims. Especially since its just a dial knob that says try each setting to see what you like.

Thanks for your thoughts, those are all my questions too. I tried calling and the company voice-mail says they're too busy to answer calls. I've used tuners on three different diesel trucks and my can am and they all added noticeable hp. I really don't know the specific parameters they are modifying with this tuner and it does seem somewhat generic in design compared to tuners I have used in the past. Because of that, I would really like some first hand info from someone who has tried this tuner.

 

[BHudson]

hmmm... just standing on the outside looking in... so since you are not making any mechanical changes to the engine all the gains HAVE to come from the control system... is there 15-17% more in these engines just in fuel and timing maps? and can you get the optimal cells by changing the inputs to the ECU? lets think about this a little bit.

Let's pick on the MR-1 HO for a moment as I am reasonably familiar at this point. So we have available to us MAP/IAT, Throttle Position, engine temp, exhaust water jacket temp, cam position, ignition pulse, and oil pressure inputs available. there is NO mass airflow or O2 sensor so this is NOT a closed LOOP engine. it runs OPEN LOOP... there is also no Knock sensor so how to make more power with NO internal changes?

You could adjust Fuel (injector pulse width) and and Spark advance in a stock set up that's about it... and to do that you have to flash a new map or manipulate the inputs you have to pick those out of a table in the ECU if the ECU control program will even do that (I suspect that it has some limited ability to do that as it uses the off throttle steering system and the no wake mode signals to do just that with the bypass servo so maybe two maps available or just rpm control loop)... anecdotally have had experience in an engine development program for my Motorcycle racing actives... we finished up looking for 1/8 to 1/4 HP per cylinder improvements just under 300HP/Liter so that was 499cc pumping out 145 ish at thee crank and 110 and change at the rear wheel with stock reliability (the list of mods would fill a two stroke tuning text book and yes you can cheat by bumping the displacement and/or fitting cylinders from a 3MA TZ250 with much more transfer port area which we worked out you get 2x the 80+ RWHP of a pair of TZ250's (and only one set of transmission losses) but then you get the TZ 250 engine maintenance schedule who needs 168 RWHP on a 320 lb bike... its way beyond my riding capability at 100%) we made 100's of dyno pulls and three custom programed computers to control the ignition map, Powervalve map and and the human in the loop LOL, it reved so fast we lit a light 500 RPM early to indicate the shift point and a big red light 500 RPM before over stressing the cranks.

Getting back on track... Remember the MR-1 is detuned (RPM and one of the camshafts is different IIRC) and re-tuned from its Motorcycle version to a reliable continuous maximum power output of 117Kw and change with a unlimited supply of cooling water playing the 140 F outlet temp game...

There's a couple things you can do for these MR1 engines however i dont think your gonna get a 15% improvement, externally a free flow airfilter and a larger volume/less restrictive exhaust. I used the 4" 1200cc two stroke exhaust after the stock MR1 HO 3" header/collector setup. I also bumped up the fuel pressure 3PSI to fatten the mixture a bit to keep them from leaning out over 9500 RPM (I suspect I have a few wonky fuel injectors)

so 117Kw with a 15% gain is 135Kw so that what 180HP... thats a suspicious number... looks alot like a 1.8 SVO's output..

so since the Theory section of those products was not currently available im a bit skeptical...

Thanks for the good info. My 2019 TR-1s Rev limit much lower than my 2008 MR-1s did...not sure why and I don't know how aggressively they are tuned at the factory. If there is reasonable hp available in a tune I'd be interested...but maybe the fact numerous tunes aren't available speaks for itself.

How did you boost your fuel pressure?

 

[lazergeek]

Money is probably better spent on a Riva ECU tuner and tune which was taylored for our engines.

 

[84rzv500r]

Thanks for the good info. My 2019 TR-1s Rev limit much lower than my 2008 MR-1s did...not sure why and I don't know how aggressively they are tuned at the factory. If there is reasonable hp available in a tune I'd be interested...but maybe the fact numerous tunes aren't available speaks for itself.

How did you boost your fuel pressure?

I have a custom 70 gallon bladder tank in the Ski Locker and adjustable fuel pressure regulators for each engine... My MR-1's are transplanted in a old 2004 AR-210 completely NOT stock..

for TR-1's there is prolly a little in them as @lazergeek says with the RIVA kit..

 

[HangOutdoors]

Thanks for your thoughts, those are all my questions too. I tried calling and the company voice-mail says they're too busy to answer calls. I've used tuners on three different diesel trucks and my can am and they all added noticeable hp. I really don't know the specific parameters they are modifying with this tuner and it does seem somewhat generic in design compared to tuners I have used in the past. Because of that, I would really like some first hand info from someone who has tried this tuner.

It seems a bit scamy. If it was factual and actual worked, everyone would have it on their boat.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

The big red flag is if no one can talk to you, even if that means calling you back. For me that is a non starter. So what happens if you have issues ? Too busy to talk to you then as well?

Kudos to @84rzv500r for breaking it right down in his post.

one of the ways that tuners get a bit more hp out of the TR-1 is to raise the rev limiter 500 rpm’s to 8500.. they also fatten the mixture above the EPA lean map. That last bit makes the most sense having dealt with EPA legal off road dirt bikes. On dirt bikes it was a big improvement in keeping them from boiling over, and they definitely had more mid range, they ran much better but nothing that would try to pull your arms out of their sockets. But bikes and boats are two pretty different animals. The advantages I could see is that the engine would run a bit richer / cooler and probably make a bit more torque.

Firstly, if your TR-1 is not reaching 8000 rpm’s at wot you are already leaving a few ponies on the table. Assuming you are at or near sea level then there are a few things to check, too high oil level, air filters with oil on them, throttle cables too slack and not moving the little rheostat all the way, too high octane fuel, spark plugs need replacing. If you are at higher altitude then you’re not going to get 8000 rpms out of the motors at that point. Depending on how much below 8000 rpm’s you are, a slight pitch adjust MIGHT be in order for your impellers.

 

[HangOutdoors]

The big red flag is if no one can talk to you, even if that means calling you back. For me that is a non starter. So what happens if you have issues ? Too busy to talk to you then as well?

Kudos to @84rzv500r for breaking it right down in his post.

one of the ways that tuners get a bit more hp out of the TR-1 is to raise the rev limiter 500 rpm’s to 8500.. they also fatten the mixture above the EPA lean map. That last bit makes the most sense having dealt with EPA legal off road dirt bikes. On dirt bikes it was a big improvement in keeping them from boiling over, and they definitely had more mid range, they ran much better but nothing that would try to pull your arms out of their sockets. But bikes and boats are two pretty different animals. The advantages I could see is that the engine would run a bit richer / cooler and probably make a bit more torque.

Firstly, if your TR-1 is not reaching 8000 rpm’s at wot you are already leaving a few ponies on the table. Assuming you are at or near sea level then there are a few things to check, too high oil level, air filters with oil on them, throttle cables too slack and not moving the little rheostat all the way, too high octane fuel, spark plugs need replacing. If you are at higher altitude then you’re not going to get 8000 rpms out of the motors at that point. Depending on how much below 8000 rpm’s you are, a slight pitch adjust MIGHT be in order for your impellers.

Not sure you can get 8000 rpm's on these TR-1's at sea level, generally. Spec is +-500. 7300 / 7600 is about it on most that I have seen, including mine on average. Maybe a bit more in the early spring when it is cool out, but not much. I am around 250-300 ft. above sea level. Everything on mine is dialed in as well, I have screwed with it enough. Would love to get them to run at 8000.

 

[lazergeek]

Not sure you can get 8000 rpm's on these TR-1's at sea level, generally. Spec is +-500. 7300 / 7600 is about it on most that I have seen, including mine on average. Maybe a bit more in the early spring when it is cool out, but not much. I am around 250-300 ft. above sea level. Everything on mine is dialed in as well, I have screwed with it enough. Would love to get them to run at 8000.

Im always at Sea Level in South East Florida and always 7500ish max.