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At what point an impeller duct needs replacement

Discussion in 'Yamaha AR240, SX240, 242 Limited / S / X/ E-Series' started by Hezi, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. Hezi

    Hezi Active Member

    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Secaucus NJ
    Ratings:
    +25 / 2
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2015
    Boat Model:
    Limited S
    Boat Length:
    24
    So I took the jet pumps off my 15' 242 LS. I am about to order a bunch of parts to overhaul them. I only have 55 Hrs on the boat, but on my first run I beached and before realizing it, I pushed the boat hard over sand and really trashed the pumps. After not being able to push over 30 MPH with 8 people on board, I decided to take a closer look. Other than finding a big plastic piece wedged between the impeller and the jet nozzle the pump sucked, I found impellers in need of replacement.

    The big question is, when do you need to replace The impeller duct? It's the boar/sleeve the impellers are turning in, and mine are scratched pretty good. Please take a look at this pictures and let me know what you think. I must order those puppies (or not) ASAP so we can go out this weekend.
    Thank you!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Neutron

    Neutron Jetboaters Lieutenant

    Messages:
    1,179
    Location:
    New Bern, NC
    Ratings:
    +1,161 / 8
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2016
    Boat Model:
    AR
    Boat Length:
    24
    If it were me, i would replace anything that looked as bad as that
     
  3. Hezi

    Hezi Active Member

    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Secaucus NJ
    Ratings:
    +25 / 2
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2015
    Boat Model:
    Limited S
    Boat Length:
    24
    I want to go out this weekend really bad. I ordered all OEM new including the liners, impellers, o-rings, etc. $1000 out the door. Anything to bring my boat to a like new propulsion system.

    BTW, is there anyway I can refurbish the old inserts and impellers? Ulimatly I will need to replace this all over again. I'll be nice to do it at a cheaper cost.

    Also, I almost went with SBT new liners with nylon inserts. It's cheaper and the inserts are replaceable and cheap. After reading a little here, I hear users complaining the inserts are turning inside the liners even after it was siliconed to place. Just for out general education, does anyone have good or bad experience with the SBT inserts?
     
  4. boudin

    boudin Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    312
    Location:
    Lake Livingston, Texas
    Ratings:
    +228 / 8
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2008
    Boat Model:
    AR
    Boat Length:
    21
    That's the wear ring (aka impeller housing), and yours appears fine. The stainless wear rings last a long, long time. Salt water boats can develop a bubble in the wear ring, but that takes a while... years.

    The impeller duct is the pump itself. What you want to measure is the clearance between the impeller and the wear ring with a feeler gauge. You'll want to be 0.35–0.45mm with a service limit of 0.6mm.

    Can you post pictures of your impeller and pump. What makes you think there is a problem?

    -Greg
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  5. Hezi

    Hezi Active Member

    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Secaucus NJ
    Ratings:
    +25 / 2
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2015
    Boat Model:
    Limited S
    Boat Length:
    24
    Hi Greg, the whole thing is in pieces. The gap between the impeller and wear ring is more than a millimeter. I can tell without a feeler gauge (been working with metric system half my life). The impellers are also in bad shape. I want my boat to jump forward like it's new. with 50+ hours on the motor, I said the hell with it and just got new impellers, wear rings, some o rings and even new anodes. Everything is suppose to come tomorrow and I am hoping to assemble it all by Friday so I can go out on the water this weekend. One little thing I noticed; I removed a cone from one of the impellers to inspect bearing and water intrusion. If there was anything, it was few drops. I cleaned the grease and will put new and assemble after getting the new o ring for that. One thing that will resolve the water intrusion (at least from the cone side) which I am planning to implement, is to clean the contact surface from grease (brake cleaner) and to silicone it past the o ring. Between the o ring and silicone, I don't see any water penetrating.
     
  6. boudin

    boudin Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    312
    Location:
    Lake Livingston, Texas
    Ratings:
    +228 / 8
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2008
    Boat Model:
    AR
    Boat Length:
    21
    I never saw pics of the duct or impeller, just the wear ring. The stainless wear ring itself is very thin. Measure the inside diameter and compare once you get the new ones.

    It's not uncommon to see a few drops in there, seeping past the o-ring. Did the pump rotate smooth or rough?

    FYI, some guys on greenhulk.net are switching to to Maxima waterproof grease for pumps. I've ordered some myself and will use it on my next rebuild, probably this weekend.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WK8VV8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2

    Post some pics of your parts.

    -Greg
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Hezi

    Hezi Active Member

    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Secaucus NJ
    Ratings:
    +25 / 2
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2015
    Boat Model:
    Limited S
    Boat Length:
    24
    I wish I knew about the grease, but I think the one I have should work fine:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KKLLPS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    I tried to put the wear ring and take pix, but thought after I will remove the impellers I can take batter pictures. The impellers shaft is turning I think fine. It's all tight there so no spinning with one finger and the shaft keep rotating like a skateboard wheel, but I don't feel any resistance. I got my boat few months ago with 45 hours on the motors. It was dry stored in FL when not in use. I did most of the damage, but I'm sure prior owner ingested some sand too before me. Other than the immediate wearable parts, things are looking real good on the boat. Do you know if I can refurbish the old impellers or wear rings? Or is it toast at this point?
     
  8. boudin

    boudin Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    312
    Location:
    Lake Livingston, Texas
    Ratings:
    +228 / 8
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2008
    Boat Model:
    AR
    Boat Length:
    21
    Impellers can be refurbished by either Impros (long wait this time of year), or through the SBT impeller exchange program.

    If the wear rings are truly bad, then they are scrap metal.

    Just some pics of the impellers and impeller ducts (both sides) in their current condition--does not need to be assembled.

    -Greg
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Hezi

    Hezi Active Member

    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Secaucus NJ
    Ratings:
    +25 / 2
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2015
    Boat Model:
    Limited S
    Boat Length:
    24
    Thank you Greg for your valuable advice. I will post later when I get home. You will be able to see leading edges, but not so sure about the trailing ones
     
  10. Hezi

    Hezi Active Member

    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Secaucus NJ
    Ratings:
    +25 / 2
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2015
    Boat Model:
    Limited S
    Boat Length:
    24
    Man, all the parts are coming today and as I read further in the manual I realize I need Epnoc Grease in the pump bearing. Epnoc??? what the heck is Epnoc??? and this is after I cleaned the existing grease in one of the cones... I went ahead and ordered the Maxima grease overnight for tomorrow.... Thanks for that advice again @boudin !
     
  11. boudin

    boudin Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    312
    Location:
    Lake Livingston, Texas
    Ratings:
    +228 / 8
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2008
    Boat Model:
    AR
    Boat Length:
    21
  12. Hezi

    Hezi Active Member

    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Secaucus NJ
    Ratings:
    +25 / 2
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2015
    Boat Model:
    Limited S
    Boat Length:
    24
    Parts came today. So little, for so much money. Ran after work to my diesel mechanic for his table vice, and he couldn't find a 27mm wranch in his shop. Told him I'll be back in the morning. Ran to Harbor Freight - all sets, no 6 points wrenchs, Lowe's- same, to home depot I called, they had the last stand alone 27mm 12 points wrench. It should do. If I was to make shopping list, I'd get a 27mm 6 points wrench online before the job. It's going to be 90 this Sunday and I want to be on the water enjoying the fruits of my labor:winkingthumbsup"
     
  13. swatski

    swatski Jetboaters Fleet Admiral

    Messages:
    7,907
    Location:
    Saint Louis, MO
    Ratings:
    +8,538 / 126
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2016
    Boat Model:
    AR
    Boat Length:
    24
    Some of the dealers now carry the elusive AP 0 grease. You might also be able to find it from other sources if you want to stick with OEM grease:
    https://jetboaters.net/threads/luck...on-cone-install-2016-ar240.12099/#post-208239

    I do not think your wear ring(s) look bad... in the picture. But the fit is critical - a tight gap between the wear ring and impelelr blades' OD). If the new impellers fit tight (to specs for OD gap), I would keep those as a spare (or return the new ones). Those impellers for new 240/242s are not expensive, and the OEM impellers are best all around performers.

    --
     
  14. boudin

    boudin Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    312
    Location:
    Lake Livingston, Texas
    Ratings:
    +228 / 8
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2008
    Boat Model:
    AR
    Boat Length:
    21
    You are looking for a wrench to remove the prop from the driveshaft? Harbor Fright has a 24" crescent wrenches that work great. Just make sure to apply heat beforehand to the threads.
     
  15. Julian

    Julian Jetboaters Fleet Admiral Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    11,599
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC 27614
    Ratings:
    +8,699 / 121
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2016
    Boat Model:
    242X E-Series
    Boat Length:
    24
    I'm not sure you need to do it now....let alone again. Without more photos and more info, hard to say what your problem is.
     
  16. swatski

    swatski Jetboaters Fleet Admiral

    Messages:
    7,907
    Location:
    Saint Louis, MO
    Ratings:
    +8,538 / 126
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2016
    Boat Model:
    AR
    Boat Length:
    24
    For the impeller wrench - many use a large crescent, which usually works. But if it is on really tight, may round the corners and slip, these impellers are not made from very hard SS. If you can find a box wrench for the impeller - I think it is kind of between 26-28 depending on where you are on the neck...
    You may be better off with one of the "adjustable" wrenches like this - this is my go-to tool for OEM impellers:
    upload_2018-7-13_9-50-11.png

    You will also need a big vice and a cheater bar, a big one, lol.

    --
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. Hezi

    Hezi Active Member

    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Secaucus NJ
    Ratings:
    +25 / 2
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2015
    Boat Model:
    Limited S
    Boat Length:
    24
    So I finish reinstalling my jets Saturday and took the boat out on Sunday. The weather, contrary to prediction was stormy and rainy but I was determined to test my work. Off we lunched after much delays, my wife, our 2 year old and myself. As soon as we lunched, the weather turned beautiful and this turned to be the funnest boat day ever (to date...). The boat was totally transformed. I suddenly had a boat that bites hard with a push of a lever. It would go up to plane in seconds. Now I got the responsive control I was missing before. My fuel consumption was heaven and earth to the way it was before. The boat was riding quieter, I could talk over the motors at 30 MPH. I managed to do 49 up and down the Hudson and the motors were mostly in the 7400 RPM range as oppose to pre-work 8000 RPM 32 MPH (in all fairness this was only on the last ride and taking the pumps apart, I found a good size plastic piece partially clogging one jet). I have good background and knowledge in mechanics and the job took 2 working days and few hours in research, and ordering parts,tools, chemicals, etc.

    So is it worth going through the troubles as oppose to leaving the boat at the shop and spend more time with the family? My answer is YES. I know my boat so much better now. No shop would have given as much as half the attention to details I invested, and as my mechanic said, next time the job will take but a fraction of the time. Good stuff... Thanks for the help!
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
  18. boudin

    boudin Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    312
    Location:
    Lake Livingston, Texas
    Ratings:
    +228 / 8
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2008
    Boat Model:
    AR
    Boat Length:
    21
    Great that you were able to fix the issue. Any pics of the old props?

    -Greg
     
  19. Hezi

    Hezi Active Member

    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Secaucus NJ
    Ratings:
    +25 / 2
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2015
    Boat Model:
    Limited S
    Boat Length:
    24
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  20. boudin

    boudin Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    312
    Location:
    Lake Livingston, Texas
    Ratings:
    +228 / 8
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2008
    Boat Model:
    AR
    Boat Length:
    21
    Send those props off to Impros to fix and keep as spares. I don't think there's anything wrong with your wear rings.

    -Greg
     

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