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Battery disconnect and bilge pump still left on

Art Traver

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I am going to install the Blue Sea dual battery setup with ACR. I want the added piece of mind of having two batteries. We are using a 'valet' service this season, so the boat for the most part will be out of the water on a rack. What I want to be able to do is leave power to the bilge pump while turning everything else off when we leave the boat. If we get in later in the day we would have to leave the boat at the dock until the next morning when they would retrieve and place boat back on the rack. Same issue heading out, if we tell the marina to drop the boat in the water it might be a few hours ahead of time and I would want the bilge in the 'on' position. Has anyone come across this, and how did you setup the circuit? Thanks.
 

Julian

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2 comments:

  1. Rack storage places HAVE to be familiar with bilge pump operations and know to turn them off and on?
  2. If you use the stock bilge and leave it on, it will drain your battery over a period of 2-3 weeks. So if you want to leave it on, you will want to switch the pump to a float switch type not the current back pressure sensing pump.
Wiring that is fairly easy...you just need to run a new wire directly to the battery with a fuse in line.
 

2nazt

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I have posted my Blue Seas ACR/Charger all in one unit. I would highly recommend that as it doubles as a shore charger if you need it in the future and the cost was low for what you get. It was the Blue Seas 7505.

I also agree with @Julian to wire in a float switch wires to the battery with fuse, or just install a second completely independent unit with float switch and just use the factory one as you have been.
 

Art Traver

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2 comments:

  1. Rack storage places HAVE to be familiar with bilge pump operations and know to turn them off and on?
  2. If you use the stock bilge and leave it on, it will drain your battery over a period of 2-3 weeks. So if you want to leave it on, you will want to switch the pump to a float switch type not the current back pressure sensing pump.
Wiring that is fairly easy...you just need to run a new wire directly to the battery with a fuse in line.
This is my first time using the valet service. From my understanding after talking with the people at the marina, when we drop off the boat at the dock we are to secure all gear and cover the boat. Marina staff are not supposed to remove the cover or enter your boat. I am thinking this is more of a security issue than anything else. Other thought I am having is somehow locating a waterproof rocker switch somewhere outside of the cover just for the bilge, I just can't think of a logical location for it.
 

Hellacool

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Can a float switch be wired to the current bilge pump? I am doing the same thing and need to have an auto bilge that wont drain the battery unless it is pumping.
 

2nazt

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Don't quote me but I think there is a third wire in engine area that is not used on the factory wire from the pump and that would be the manual on. You could wire that to signal the pump. You would need to look at the wires coming from the pump, and check the MFG website to see what each color means and how to wire to the switch. But most pumps come with Auto and Manual mode in that size class.
 

MrMoose

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Just install a secondary bilge pump. It's good to have a backup. My second pump is directly wired to the battery and it works on a float. When the boat is docked for extended periods, like when in Bimini, I switch the batteries off, but the backup pump still has power.
 

Hellacool

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Just install a secondary bilge pump. It's good to have a backup. My second pump is directly wired to the battery and it works on a float. When the boat is docked for extended periods, like when in Bimini, I switch the batteries off, but the backup pump still has power.
Most likely what i am going to do.
 

2nazt

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I still need to add a second in my new to me boat and maybe beef up the factory one also.
 

Hellacool

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While i wait to get a second bilge, what batteries need to be on? My boat is sitting on the dock with both batteries on to be safe. I waited to make sure the bilge cycled.
 

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While i wait to get a second bilge, what batteries need to be on? My boat is sitting on the dock with both batteries on to be safe. I waited to make sure the bilge cycled.
I think it is just the house battery switch that needs to be on. The Connext can be off, the bilge pump is still supposed to cycle, as long as the bat switch is in the on position. (if I remember correctly - I think @Julian figured that out, I asked the same questions)
 

Hellacool

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I think it is just the house battery switch that needs to be on. The Connext can be off, the bilge pump is still supposed to cycle, as long as the bat switch is in the on position. (if I remember correctly - I think @Julian figured that out, I asked the same questions)
Will it kill one of the batteries if both are on?
 

swatski

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Will it kill one of the batteries if both are on?
No, it should not, it should be no problem. Those bilge pumps cycle but consume very very little electricity. With the system Connext/screen off, just the pump cycling (not actually pumping) would take months to drain a battery (in good shape).

EDIT: Apparently - takes only a couple of weeks to drain a battery, see Julian's post below.

--
 
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Hellacool

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No, it should not, it should be no problem. Those bilge pumps cycle but consume very very little electricity. With the system Connext/screen off, just the pump cycling (not actually pumping) would take months to drain a battery (in good shape).

--
Good to know, thanks.
 

Julian

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It actually takes between 2-3 weeks for a battery to drain when a back pressure bilge keeps cycling (your results may vary). I learned this over repeated tests with my LX210....but it is possible that pumps have changed and times may extend.
 

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@Hellacool Well, as @Julian said! That's draining faster than I thought. Thanks for the info, I was half-guessing based on the manual. Good to know.

Well, that brings me to my next point.

I don't particularly care for the factory bilge pump set up. I don't really like leaving the boat with battery switches on, if it can be avoided.... So, in my boat I finally got a backup bilge pump installed - the way I like it - direct to the battery (fused).

I use the simplest of all pumps - an automatic with a float switch. Attwood or Rule, doesn't matter, they are all the same. They all get terrible reviews, but I think it is primarily due to installation and maintenance issues.
The Ultra (brand) switch is about the only thing that will not fail - and something I would get if I wet slipped.

Otherwise, they all can get stuck in either "off" or "on" position, but I believe those inexpensive float switch automatics are actuslly the most reliable, if frequently tested and kept reasonably clean. One of my past boats leaked heavily (before I rebuilt the transom) - I had a chance to test various setups over the few years I kept it, lol.

Basically - the cycling ones (like the OEM pump) sense a load, any load - so it could be debris that will keep those on and drain your battery pretty quickly leaving the boat unprotected. Same with the "actual liquid sensing" (optical or whatever) - those can be fooled/activated by dirt - and stay "on". What is even more worrisome, neither of those two types (or the newer ones that "sense" but then default to "cycling" if they think it is just dirt) will actually pump if gasoline or oil is present...
(I'm all for clean environment, but if my boat sinks....)

Here is my backup bilge pump setup (inside the stern):
upload_2017-4-28_22-4-44.png

The pump's base is screwed and 5200-ed to one of the support beams (for the ride plate underneath the hull) at the bottom of the bilge. This backup pump operates completely independently of the factory bilge pump and is the only device in my boat that is live when all battery switches are "OFF". I have it wired directly to the house battery with a 16awg wire (using ground-black, and automatic - brown, with the brown/white - manual sealed off) running in a loom (top in the picture) - going into the engine compartment inside another large loom, along steering cables. The hot wire is fused within few inches of the positive terminal with a 5A fuse. The drain hose (bottom) is a standard 5ft 3/4" with a dedicated thru-hull outlet fitting installed above/forward off of the strbd rear cleat (don't have a picture).

Oh, I forgot to add - the pump is accessible through the cleanout tray hatch/opening - I can reach it to test the pump with the little dial knob.

--
 
Last edited:

Hellacool

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@Hellacool Well, as @Julian said! That's draining faster than I thought. Thanks for the info, I was half-guessing based on the manual. Good to know.

Well, that brings me to my next point.

I don't particularly care for the factory bilge pump set up. I don't really like leaving the boat with battery switches on, if it can be avoided.... So, in my boat I finally got a backup bilge pump installed - the way I like it - direct to the battery (fused).

I use the simplest of all pumps - an automatic with a float switch. Attwood or Rule, doesn't matter, they are all the same. They all get terrible reviews, but I think it is primarily due to installation and maintenance issues.
The Ultra (brand) switch is about the only thing that will not fail - and something I would get if I wet slipped.

Otherwise, they all can get stuck in either "off" or "on" position, but I believe those inexpensive float switch automatics are actuslly the most reliable, if frequently tested and kept reasonably clean. One of my past boats leaked heavily (before I rebuilt the transom) - I had a chance to test various setups over the few years I kept it, lol.

Basically - the cycling ones (like the OEM pump) sense a load, any load - so it could be debris that will keep those on and drain your battery pretty quickly leaving the boat unprotected. Same with the "actual liquid sensing" (optical or whatever) - those can be fooled/activated by dirt - and stay "on". What is even more worrisome, neither of those two types (or the newer ones that "sense" but then default to "cycling" if they think it is just dirt) will actually pump if gasoline or oil is present...
(I'm all for clean environment, but if my boat sinks....)

Here is my backup bilge pump setup (inside the stern):
View attachment 54935

The pump's base is screwed and 5200-ed to one of the support beams (for the ride plate underneath the hull) at the bottom of the bilge. This backup pump operates completely independently of the factory bilge pump and is the only device in my boat that is live when all battery switches are "OFF". I have it wired directly to the house battery with a 16awg wire (using ground-black, and automatic - brown, with the brown/white - manual sealed off) running in a loom (top in the picture) - going into the engine compartment inside another large loom, along steering cables. The hot wire is fused within few inches of the positive terminal with a 5A fuse. The drain hose (bottom) is a standard 5ft 3/4" with a dedicated thru-hull outlet fitting installed above/forward off of the strbd rear cleat (don't have a picture).

Oh, I forgot to add - the pump is accessible through the cleanout tray hatch/opening - I can reach it to test the pump with the little dial knob.

--
Great post.
 

Art Traver

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all great posts. since my boat is still sitting in the driveway i decided to to pull the bilge that came with the boat and hooked it up to a battery on my bench. there is a constant slight draw with a spike maybe every 10 or so minutes, the pump cycles on to detect the presence of water. so i could see that style pump draining a battery over a few weeks. i am going to opt for a second float operated bilge. i purchased a Seaflow pump from amazon. did the same bench test and saw no current draw over the course of 2 hours. short of drilling a new hole in the hull i think i might install a "Y" fitting in the original 3/4" line and install two backflow valves, one for each pump. the new float pump will be direct wired, with fuse, to the battery. This way i can shut off everything else and still have power to one pump.
 

2nazt

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I will say it probably a lot more will chime in also. I would strongly recommend to install an independent drain line. It is very minimal work to do so. It will not compromise flow in the event you ever need to run to pumps. The backflow valves will reduce flow to start with. I think an discharge hose kit is 30ish bucks on Amazon and the routing is pretty easy. You will close to that for the "y" and backflow valves etc
 

Art Traver

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@Hellacool Well, as @Julian said! That's draining faster than I thought. Thanks for the info, I was half-guessing based on the manual. Good to know.

Well, that brings me to my next point.

I don't particularly care for the factory bilge pump set up. I don't really like leaving the boat with battery switches on, if it can be avoided.... So, in my boat I finally got a backup bilge pump installed - the way I like it - direct to the battery (fused).

I use the simplest of all pumps - an automatic with a float switch. Attwood or Rule, doesn't matter, they are all the same. They all get terrible reviews, but I think it is primarily due to installation and maintenance issues.
The Ultra (brand) switch is about the only thing that will not fail - and something I would get if I wet slipped.

Otherwise, they all can get stuck in either "off" or "on" position, but I believe those inexpensive float switch automatics are actuslly the most reliable, if frequently tested and kept reasonably clean. One of my past boats leaked heavily (before I rebuilt the transom) - I had a chance to test various setups over the few years I kept it, lol.

Basically - the cycling ones (like the OEM pump) sense a load, any load - so it could be debris that will keep those on and drain your battery pretty quickly leaving the boat unprotected. Same with the "actual liquid sensing" (optical or whatever) - those can be fooled/activated by dirt - and stay "on". What is even more worrisome, neither of those two types (or the newer ones that "sense" but then default to "cycling" if they think it is just dirt) will actually pump if gasoline or oil is present...
(I'm all for clean environment, but if my boat sinks....)

Here is my backup bilge pump setup (inside the stern):
View attachment 54935

The pump's base is screwed and 5200-ed to one of the support beams (for the ride plate underneath the hull) at the bottom of the bilge. This backup pump operates completely independently of the factory bilge pump and is the only device in my boat that is live when all battery switches are "OFF". I have it wired directly to the house battery with a 16awg wire (using ground-black, and automatic - brown, with the brown/white - manual sealed off) running in a loom (top in the picture) - going into the engine compartment inside another large loom, along steering cables. The hot wire is fused within few inches of the positive terminal with a 5A fuse. The drain hose (bottom) is a standard 5ft 3/4" with a dedicated thru-hull outlet fitting installed above/forward off of the strbd rear cleat (don't have a picture).

Oh, I forgot to add - the pump is accessible through the cleanout tray hatch/opening - I can reach it to test the pump with the little dial knob.

--
what is "5200-ed", some sort of adhesive?
 
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