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Land Cruiser Ownership

2kwik4u

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Was reading an article on Jalopnik about Land Cruisers being discontinued at the end of 2021. Made my way down to the comments and found this comment. Dude should be a writer!

I know exactly one person who drives a Land Cruiser. His name is Robert, and he’s an engineer from Seattle. We met because we hired the same architect to design our houses.

Robert is plain, but extremely intelligent, and he could prattle on for hours about engineering. He’s the classic “only what you need, and no more” kind of guy. His house is this beautifully designed prairie style home, very much in line with the Frank Lloyd Wright/Taliesin design style.

His home is probably only 1,800 square feet, maybe 2,000 — but it’s built to last 1,000 years. When most people would have used 2x4's to frame their house, Robert used 2x8's, because the wider wall structure allowed him to blow in more insulation. All this insulation LITERALLY allows him to keep his home warm in the winter... using only 600 watts of total power. Yes, your computer uses more energy than Robert’s home.

His entire roof is a water reclamation funnel... and it’s made from copper, because he doesn’t want anything growing on his roof that may taint the water he’s using for his garden. Your roof and roof deck probably cost about $20,000, all in. Robert’s copper roof was over $100,000. Over the years, the copper has taken on this classic greenish hue, and it matches the finished concrete exterior. He told me his copper roof will likely last 300 years or more. I believe it.

There are no cheap materials. Where he could have poured concrete, Robert sourced local stone, and had it intricately chipped away so that every rock would dovetail together. His entire fireplace could have been simple, but instead he chose to have these two inch wide mahogany pieces that go together like a puzzle. It looks totally random, but it’s actually this intricate design.

I’d estimate that Robert spent over $1,500,000 just building his home. Maybe even 2 million. He spared no expense. The result was... a home that is tasteful, but not really eye-catching. It’s gray with a green roof, and some small wood accents. The garden surrounding it is humble and colorful, but not “look at me” in any way. It’s a medium sized, modest home, that is completely overdone in every way, but overdone in such a way that it’s not flashy. Per square foot, it’s hard to imagine a more expensive way to construct a home.

Robert drives a Land Cruiser. It’s immaculate. I saw it in his driveway, and I’d just assume the interior is as nice as the exterior. I’d guess it’s maybe a 2012 model? I’d venture to guess that Robert intends to keep and maintain it for the next 30 years. I think that, because he also has the cleanest Toyota pickup I have ever seen. (It’s one of those 22RE four bangers that just never dies.) I did ask him about it, and he mentioned that it belonged to his dad, and he intends to keep it forever. Then he just moved along -- cars aren’t really his thing. He just like quality things that last forever. He loves engineering.

The Land Cruiser is basically the pinnacle of the Toyota ownership pyramid, and it takes a particular type of customer to want one, but I think Toyota needs the Land Cruiser in the same way Chevrolet needs the Corvette. Oddly, the Land Cruiser is their halo car. It’s the best expression of Toyota’s dedication to over-engineering, while maintaining a blue jeans and a t-shirt appearance.
If it didn't say Seattle, I would have bet money they were talking about @swatski !!!!
 

swatski

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Great write up, I couldn't hold a candle to the guy except the only commonality which is this: "intends to keep and maintain it for the next 30 years".
We will see; by far the best, and possibly last, vehicle I've owned. I do plan to run it into the ground, so may actually find out who croaks first, lol.
Based on what I've seen so far - my money is on the Landy!

--
 

BlkGS

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Land rovers have always been interesting to me. As much as people say they're not flashy, they sort of are. And their Lexus brother definitely is.

Curious as to people's thoughts on the lx vs the land cruiser too.
 

Betik

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Great write up, I couldn't hold a candle to the guy except the only commonality which is this: "intends to keep and maintain it for the next 30 years".
We will see; by far the best, and possibly last, vehicle I've owned. I do plan to run it into the ground, so may actually find out who croaks first, lol.
Based on what I've seen so far - my money is on the Landy!

--
Can I get on the will?
 

Betik

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For the record, there is just no way the land cruiser will not come back.
what Concerns me is the next gen will most likely be based on the some platform as the tundra, not a bad thing in the grand scheme of things but not quite the same old tank.

the good news is that it is likely to be a hybrid which means in some crooked sense I can justify it to be my daily commuter
 

AZMark

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Land rovers have always been interesting to me. As much as people say they're not flashy, they sort of are. And their Lexus brother definitely is.

Curious as to people's thoughts on the lx vs the land cruiser too.
Land ROVERS are quite flashy!
 

AZMark

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For the record, there is just no way the land cruiser will not come back.
what Concerns me is the next gen will most likely be based on the some platform as the tundra, not a bad thing in the grand scheme of things but not quite the same old tank.

the good news is that it is likely to be a hybrid which means in some crooked sense I can justify it to be my daily commuter
That’s already the sequoia.

Land cruisers will continue to exist in the rest of the world...maybe Toyota will wise up and offer a less than fully loaded land cruiser in the US at a much lower price and sell more than a couple thousand each year. Not everyone needs a fridge in their center console!
 

swatski

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For the record, there is just no way the land cruiser will not come back.
what Concerns me is the next gen will most likely be based on the some platform as the tundra, not a bad thing in the grand scheme of things but not quite the same old tank.

the good news is that it is likely to be a hybrid which means in some crooked sense I can justify it to be my daily commuter
More likely they will evolve into Prado-like line, not necessarily bad, just not my thing, except maybe the hybrid power train - that would be quite awesome. If current LCs have a big weakness - number one would be their (miserable) range. The other weakness is their completely outdated cabin electronics - navigation, stereo, etc - those are just laughable. But - some of us don't care, and electronic control of drivetrain and traction control is out of this world, in low range these rigs can drive themselves, literally, over crazy terrain they can "recognize" and adapt to. I have pulled my 240 in and out of water over steep sand or gravel landings, with no ramps, river embankments, it's pretty insane.

--
 

swatski

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Land rovers have always been interesting to me. As much as people say they're not flashy, they sort of are. And their Lexus brother definitely is.

Curious as to people's thoughts on the lx vs the land cruiser too.
Good question, the LX is way more plush in the interior and w/ flashy styling, require premium gas which most believe is just a gimmicky selling point differentiator with no basis in reality, adjustable suspension etc., and I think they sell way better than LCs in the US as the price is only marginally more. But there is something about the LCs, their relative simplicity and bland styling while being completely "overbuilt". They have been forever manufactured in one storied Yoshiwara factory in Japan, the majority sold in Middle East.

--
 

AZMark

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I
Good question, the LX is way more plush in the interior and w/ flashy styling, require premium gas which most believe is just a gimmicky selling point differentiator with no basis in reality, adjustable suspension etc., and I think they sell way better than LCs in the US as the price is only marginally more. But there is something about the LCs, their relative simplicity and bland styling while being completely "overbuilt". They have been forever manufactured in one storied Yoshiwara factory in Japan, the majority sold in Middle East.

--
It took me quite a while to find a good used land cruiser. It was very difficult but I passed on several very nice LXs while I was searching.
Since I was buying very used I was pretty nervous about the adjustable suspension starting to need repairs. It was an awesome feature on the LXs I test drove but I prefer simplicity for something I’ll own long term.
 

Betik

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Yes the Sequa is awesome, but it is not an LC. I would “worry “ the new LC especially the US spec will be a rebadged sequa.

@swatski i like the Prado, but as long as we are in the US I would rather get something bigger. Outside of here that Prado wil work fine , just like Hilux would. But here we would rather have a tundra hybrid ( God I am drooling over that already despite me muting less than 1,000 miles on the truck the last 12 months).
 

drewkaree

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require premium gas which most believe is just a gimmicky selling point differentiator with no basis in reality, adjustable suspension etc...the majority sold in Middle East.
I can't compare apples to apples, but I can point to my experience over 4 different models (LS400, LS430, RX300 and GX470). Every vehicle EXCEPT my GX470 got a measurable difference in MPG when using premium, with a caveat. The difference was usually 1.5-3 mpg better when using premium. Given the cost difference when going to any gas station other than Costco (that's the place I make a concerted effort to use for fuel), some may see a monetary difference large enough for them to forego the manual's recommendations, at a cost, IMO. Lower mpg with regular, and slight engine knock in my RX300 when I was doing my comparison were the main immediately noticeable differences/issues. My GX470 is the only one ever rated for 87 (or 88, can't remember) octane, and it's the one where the difference was least noticeable between regular and premium EXCEPT when towing the boat. When towing, shift points were different and there was less "hunting" for the right gear. Since I have a Costco membership, the cost difference has typically been halved over the typical gas station in my area, so I simply run premium - the extra cost works out to be $2-5/tank and the car just feels smoother all around.

I have the adjustable suspension in my GX470 and the LS430. In the LS, there isn't a chance in hell that I'll keep it when something finally goes on it. I'll be swapping over to a conventional suspension when an air strut goes on me, unless they come up with a reasonably priced replacement. OEM's run $1500 EACH, so I'd eventually be spending $6000 on just those 4 suspension pieces, vs $3000 for the changeover, and the process is detailed enough online and I'm capable enough that I can do the work myself, and at that point, I'll most likely never have another problem with the suspension for the rest of the life of the car. On my GX, I'm still contemplating which route to go. It's a spendy option, but it seems to make a bigger difference. The cost is less than on the LS to boot. I don't think the adjustable suspension is worth the extra cost, but that's just me. I'm looking to pick up a GX460, and I'm specifically ruling out getting one with that option on it, as well as finding the unicorn of a non-GPS.

I have wanted a Land Cruiser since driving one over 20 years ago. The price they command, as well as scarcity, is what's kept me wanting one instead of having one. In my area, they routinely are priced at six figures. They sell at that price, and "ordering" a new one seems to be limited to "what color do you want, white or black, and these are the option packages that you'll have to choose from", none of which are base models (meaning without the frivolous options). It actually seems easier to find the Lexus version around me, but still at ridiculous prices. Used, 100k miles, still command $30k around here. While I think it'd be worth it, I still can't bring myself to pull the trigger at that price/mileage combo.
 

Betik

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@drewkaree i have wanted a LC since I saw the UN vehicles pretending to care for the less fortunate. My main problem ( aside from not being loaded) is that I could have 2 new F150 over 15 years vs 1 LC every 15 years.

Towing the boat to Florida and taking the kids to school does not require the dependability that the LC offers. So for me to have one it will be spoiling myself and I cannot bring myself to do it.
 

drewkaree

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I could have 2 new F150 over 15 years vs 1 LC every 15 years.
This is just my admitted bias, I would believe the Land Cruiser to be far more reliable than the Ford's, and I'd extend that 15 years to 20 or more for the Land Cruiser if you wanted to keep it.

Cost-wise, it's far cheaper when the time does come to fix the Ford's, and the aftermarket is ridiculous for F150's. I really liked my F150, but more for its usefulness than its comfort.

When we were getting rid of the LS400, my wife really liked the Mini's, and I had to actually take her to a dealership to convince her I was right, that she wouldn't like the ride of them after the LS. On the plus side, since that time, she's never doubted my opinion on vehicles I was looking to purchase. 😁
 

AZMark

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I can't compare apples to apples, but I can point to my experience over 4 different models (LS400, LS430, RX300 and GX470). Every vehicle EXCEPT my GX470 got a measurable difference in MPG when using premium, with a caveat. The difference was usually 1.5-3 mpg better when using premium. Given the cost difference when going to any gas station other than Costco (that's the place I make a concerted effort to use for fuel), some may see a monetary difference large enough for them to forego the manual's recommendations, at a cost, IMO. Lower mpg with regular, and slight engine knock in my RX300 when I was doing my comparison were the main immediately noticeable differences/issues. My GX470 is the only one ever rated for 87 (or 88, can't remember) octane, and it's the one where the difference was least noticeable between regular and premium EXCEPT when towing the boat. When towing, shift points were different and there was less "hunting" for the right gear. Since I have a Costco membership, the cost difference has typically been halved over the typical gas station in my area, so I simply run premium - the extra cost works out to be $2-5/tank and the car just feels smoother all around.

I have the adjustable suspension in my GX470 and the LS430. In the LS, there isn't a chance in hell that I'll keep it when something finally goes on it. I'll be swapping over to a conventional suspension when an air strut goes on me, unless they come up with a reasonably priced replacement. OEM's run $1500 EACH, so I'd eventually be spending $6000 on just those 4 suspension pieces, vs $3000 for the changeover, and the process is detailed enough online and I'm capable enough that I can do the work myself, and at that point, I'll most likely never have another problem with the suspension for the rest of the life of the car. On my GX, I'm still contemplating which route to go. It's a spendy option, but it seems to make a bigger difference. The cost is less than on the LS to boot. I don't think the adjustable suspension is worth the extra cost, but that's just me. I'm looking to pick up a GX460, and I'm specifically ruling out getting one with that option on it, as well as finding the unicorn of a non-GPS.

I have wanted a Land Cruiser since driving one over 20 years ago. The price they command, as well as scarcity, is what's kept me wanting one instead of having one. In my area, they routinely are priced at six figures. They sell at that price, and "ordering" a new one seems to be limited to "what color do you want, white or black, and these are the option packages that you'll have to choose from", none of which are base models (meaning without the frivolous options). It actually seems easier to find the Lexus version around me, but still at ridiculous prices. Used, 100k miles, still command $30k around here. While I think it'd be worth it, I still can't bring myself to pull the trigger at that price/mileage combo.
I’ve only driven Toyotas most of my life and premium fuel most definitely makes a difference in the feel and power of these engines, particularly the 6 cylinders in hot weather.

I wish you were correct on that pricing, I’d have an extra $10k in my pocket :confused:
 

swatski

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I can't compare apples to apples, but I can point to my experience over 4 different models (LS400, LS430, RX300 and GX470). Every vehicle EXCEPT my GX470 got a measurable difference in MPG when using premium, with a caveat. The difference was usually 1.5-3 mpg better when using premium. Given the cost difference when going to any gas station other than Costco (that's the place I make a concerted effort to use for fuel), some may see a monetary difference large enough for them to forego the manual's recommendations, at a cost, IMO. Lower mpg with regular, and slight engine knock in my RX300 when I was doing my comparison were the main immediately noticeable differences/issues. My GX470 is the only one ever rated for 87 (or 88, can't remember) octane, and it's the one where the difference was least noticeable between regular and premium EXCEPT when towing the boat. When towing, shift points were different and there was less "hunting" for the right gear. Since I have a Costco membership, the cost difference has typically been halved over the typical gas station in my area, so I simply run premium - the extra cost works out to be $2-5/tank and the car just feels smoother all around.

I have the adjustable suspension in my GX470 and the LS430. In the LS, there isn't a chance in hell that I'll keep it when something finally goes on it. I'll be swapping over to a conventional suspension when an air strut goes on me, unless they come up with a reasonably priced replacement. OEM's run $1500 EACH, so I'd eventually be spending $6000 on just those 4 suspension pieces, vs $3000 for the changeover, and the process is detailed enough online and I'm capable enough that I can do the work myself, and at that point, I'll most likely never have another problem with the suspension for the rest of the life of the car. On my GX, I'm still contemplating which route to go. It's a spendy option, but it seems to make a bigger difference. The cost is less than on the LS to boot. I don't think the adjustable suspension is worth the extra cost, but that's just me. I'm looking to pick up a GX460, and I'm specifically ruling out getting one with that option on it, as well as finding the unicorn of a non-GPS.

I have wanted a Land Cruiser since driving one over 20 years ago. The price they command, as well as scarcity, is what's kept me wanting one instead of having one. In my area, they routinely are priced at six figures. They sell at that price, and "ordering" a new one seems to be limited to "what color do you want, white or black, and these are the option packages that you'll have to choose from", none of which are base models (meaning without the frivolous options). It actually seems easier to find the Lexus version around me, but still at ridiculous prices. Used, 100k miles, still command $30k around here. While I think it'd be worth it, I still can't bring myself to pull the trigger at that price/mileage combo.
No question in my mind those 5.7 Toyota engines develop a bit more torque burning premium (93) vs regular (87 octane), if you ask me. I read somewhere the toyota ECUs can pull timing as much as 12% (?) with regular vs premium based on their exquisite knock sensing. I would say that would mesh well with my experience, albeit who knows.

--
 

drewkaree

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I wish you were correct on that pricing, I’d have an extra $10k in my pocket :confused:
Are you referring to the cost difference in fuel, or the cost of a used LX? Either way, they're correct for my area, your area may be different. Seasonal changes right now, but fuel is usually .30/gal difference at Costco, but .70+/gal difference at any typical station. As for used prices, my area puts a beating on vehicles with winter, so prices may be lower than in AZ where you'll get a much nicer example, all things considered, which would/should raise prices in your area for comparable examples. Online places like Carvana are really starting to level the playing field in this respect though.

No question in my mind those 5.7 Toyota engines develop a bit more torque burning premium (93) vs regular (87 octane), if you ask me. I read somewhere the toyota ECUs can pull timing as much as 12% (?) with regular vs premium based on their exquisite knock sensing. I would say that would mesh well with my experience, albeit who knows.
The oddity in the fleet I've owned was the RX, regarding knock, and that's the only V6 I've ever had. I'm sold on their V8's, although I'd consider another RX for the right price/mileage. For their current new RX pricing, I'll gladly take some mileage on a used GX for the same price thanks to that V8.
 

AZMark

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Are you referring to the cost difference in fuel, or the cost of a used LX? Either way, they're correct for my area, your area may be different. Seasonal changes right now, but fuel is usually .30/gal difference at Costco, but .70+/gal difference at any typical station. As for used prices, my area puts a beating on vehicles with winter, so prices may be lower than in AZ where you'll get a much nicer example, all things considered, which would/should raise prices in your area for comparable examples. Online places like Carvana are really starting to level the playing field in this respect though.



The oddity in the fleet I've owned was the RX, regarding knock, and that's the only V6 I've ever had. I'm sold on their V8's, although I'd consider another RX for the right price/mileage. For their current new RX pricing, I'll gladly take some mileage on a used GX for the same price thanks to that V8.
I was referring to purchase price. I paid over 40 for one with around 90k but it lived in CA & was in excellent condition.
I was searching most of the southwest & the only thing I found below 30 involved a salvage title, a questionable odometer & a very long story about a Texas hailstorm getting “a little water in the dash”. NOPE!
 

2kwik4u

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Doug DeMuro has an opinion on the Land Cruiser.....He's usually hit or miss with me. This ones a hit.

 
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