Looking for Input/Advice on audio upgrade.

[McTafur]

So I'll keep this as concise as possible. This is what I had in mind..

-Clairion M502 with rear remote
-3 sets of Polk DB651 (replacing current set up as well as adding transom)
-1 JL MX10IB sub
-1 JL M700 5 Channel amp

Questions that I have are...
-Is there a amp wiring kit that I can purchase that makes sense?
-Should I power any of the speakers with the HU?
-What about fuse protection?

Advise/help is welcome and appreciated..

 

[redthumper9]

- contact Earmark audio. From what has been said, Odin (owner) can not only set you up with the equipment, they will custom taylor you wire kit to suit your needs. Others have had good luck with knukonceptz.com for their wire needs.

- I would not run any of the speakers off of the head unit. Those will start to clip and distort due to lack of power, while the others with an amp will be going strong. Instead, consider running two sets (like the four in the cabin) off of two of the channels. It will drop you into 2 ohm stereo, but that shoildnt be a problem for that JL amp.

- fuse the amp as close to the battery as possible. I believe within 18" is standard practice.

 

[Bruce]

Have you tried a Clarion M502?

I installed one in a friends pontoon along with 4 Infinity marine 6.5s. It sounded grew and the Bluetooth worked well but I found the control awkward.

I have 6 Infinity marine 6x9s in my boat without an amp powered by a high wattage Fusion head unit. They sound great. No need for an amp or sub.

 

[redthumper9]

Have you tried a Clarion M502?

I installed one in a friends pontoon along with 4 Infiniti marine 6.5s. It sounded grew and the Bluetooth worked well but I found the control awkward.

I have 6 Infiniti marine 6x9s in my boat without an amp powered by a high wattage Fusion head unit. They sound great. No need for an amp or sub.

I have also heard the 502 single knob was a complete pain. I think @Julian has/had one and he said that it works well, but he wouldnt recommend it to others due to the complexity of the single dial.

 

[McTafur]

Have you tried a Clarion M502?

I installed one in a friends pontoon along with 4 Infiniti marine 6.5s. It sounded grew and the Bluetooth worked well but I found the control awkward.

I have 6 Infiniti marine 6x9s in my boat without an amp powered by a high wattage Fusion head unit. They sound great. No need for an amp or sub.

I have not tried the unit out yet.. I have heard this is a great unit but the control may take getting used to?? I'll do a review once I have a chance to use it a bit.

 

[McTafur]

I have also heard the 502 single knob was a complete pain. I think @Julian has/had one and he said that it works well, but he wouldnt recommend it to others due to the complexity of the single dial.

Okay, okay..... This keeps up and I may re-consider the HU.

 

[Bruce]

I ordered the M502 for my friend because it was for sale for $150 on Amazon. I am sure you could get used to it and it seemed to be a good unit.

This is the MS-IP600 that I installed in my SX230. I consider it to be a great unit. It is easy to control from the head unit or the remote. The buttons are big, clearly labeled and easy to use. The entire unit is sealed to prevent corrosion which had damaged the factory JVC head unit.

I suggest considering the the Infinity Marine Audio speakers. The specs are pretty amazing and my experience is that they live up to their specs.

I originally planned to install 6 of the Infinity 6x9s and two subs with an amp. After installing 4 of the Infinity 6x9s I decided that they had plenty of base and the subs were unnecessary. Currently I have 4 6x9s in the factory locations with enlarged holes and 2 on the swim deck behind the seat cushions. I am waiting for an upholstery shop to call and say that they are ready to modify my front seat backs to make room for two more in the bow area. The MS-IP600 is capable of providing 70 watts per channel for four channels at 2 ohms. I have the four speakers in the factory location wired up in parallel to provide a 2 ohm load on two channels. Currently the swim deck speakers are using the other two channels at 4 ohms but they will be paralleled to 2 ohms as well once the seat backs are ready.

 

[David Analog]

I have no comment on the Clarion HU as I just don't pay much attention to that product category and I haven't used one personally.

I would highly recommend Odin with Earmark Marine as your equipment source. He will provide you with installation instruction and will walk you through a system tuning process that will make the same equipment sound much better. Incredible knowledge with excellent support.

Once you begin powering speakers with external amplifier power then you should keep all speakers off HU power. If trying to balance HU power with external amplifier power, you will either a) prematurely clip the HU internal amplifier, or b) in an effort to protect the HU power from clipping you will have to set the amplifier gains inordinately high resulting in an obvious output mismatch and a much higher noise floor.
The particular speaker locations will dictate which amplifier channels have a single speaker and which have paralleled speakers.

Fullrange speakers carry 80%+ of the music bandwidth so I consider the coaxials to be the most important component in the audio system. So I would look seriously at upgrading to the JL Audio MX650s. Smoother. Way more midbass extension....and this will have a profound effect on how the satellites integrate with the subwoofer. This could be the most important upgrade you could make.

I do like the Polk dB respective to their price bracket. If I was staying in that entry level area I would prefer the Polk with a true dome tweeter over other alternatives using a W-dome tweeter, which while bright and aggressive also tend to have an erratic response and wear me out on vocals.

 

[Bruce]

@David Analog,

I am curious if you have tried the Infinity Marine speakers?
I originally planned to install either the MX650 or the Polk DB651s.

Once I started shopping around I recognized that the Polk db651s and Infinity 612m offer a SPL of 92 dB with a frequency response of 50 Hz to 22/20 Khz while the MX650 has a SPL of 89.5 dB with a frequency response of 55 Hz to 25 Khz. The Polk and JL both are capable of producing higher frequencies but very few humans can hear above 20 Khz. The JL MX650 is rated for 125 RMS while the Infinity is for 75W and the Polk for 55 so the JL is more suited to a highly amplified install. The 2.5 dB increase in efficiency (SPL) for the Polk and Infinity speakers is a big difference in volume and feel. I decided on the Infinity over the Polks because I have a blue boat and preferred the blue color of the Inifinitys.

Then I decided to go with the Infinity 6912m for its blue color 96 dB SPL and 36 Hz to 20 kHz frequency response. I am very happy with the way they sound. The tweeter is a component speaker but it is permanently attached to the grill. With a increase of 8.5 dB of listeners perceive the volume of the music from my boat as being roughly twice as loud as if I had installed MX650s in the same configuration. To my ears the current setup provides a rich, full, clear sound.

 

[David Analog]

@David Analog,

I am curious if you have tried the Infinity Marine speakers?
I originally planned to install either the MX650 or the Polk DB651s.

Once I started shopping around I recognized that the Polk db651s and Infinity 612m offer a SPL of 92 dB with a frequency response of 50 Hz to 22/20 Khz while the MX650 has a SPL of 89.5 dB with a frequency response of 55 Hz to 25 Khz. The Polk and JL both are capable of producing higher frequencies but very few humans can hear above 20 Khz. The JL MX650 is rated for 125 RMS while the Infinity is for 75W and the Polk for 55 so the JL is more suited to a highly amplified install. The 2.5 dB increase in efficiency (SPL) for the Polk and Infinity speakers is a big difference in volume and feel. I decided on the Infinity over the Polks because I have a blue boat and preferred the blue color of the Inifinitys.

Then I decided to go with the Infinity 6912m for its blue color 96 dB SPL and 36 Hz to 20 kHz frequency response. I am very happy with the way they sound. The tweeter is a component speaker but it is permanently attached to the grill. With a increase of 8.5 dB of listeners perceive the volume of the music from my boat as being roughly twice as loud as if I had installed MX650s in the same configuration. To my ears the current setup provides a rich, full, clear sound.

I base my opinions on listening to the speakers in a number of applications and side by side in an ideal and equal environment. However, sound is subjective and tastes will differ from person to person for a variety of reasons. The fact that we have opinions all over the map is okay with me. Again, as this is a very subjective matter. On the other hand....
You would think that specifications would be an objective method of comparing speakers. NOT SO!!!
There is no 6X9" speaker that can reproduce 36 Hz unless it was perhaps 20+ dB down. Yep, 1/10th power to the power of 2. The speaker's natural resonance is waaay above 36 Hz and the resulting impedance peak absolutely prohibits reproduction in that area. An unqualified specification is a meaningless one. Nothing subjective about that.
Is the sensitive rating @ 1 watt, 1 volt, 1 foot, 1 meter, weighted, un-weighted, etc. etc. etc. Look, if an erratic response gives me more output over a narrow peak, I can't realistically compare that to a more linear average output unless I'm shopping for a public address horn. Just because the speaker holds an advantage at 1 watt doesn't mean that it holds the same advantage at 50 watts. There are too many design ploys and trade-offs to discuss. But one example could be, a very short voice coil length can yield an inordinately high sensitivity yet is extremely inefficient at higher power levels when less of that coil is in the sweet spot of the magnet structure. Specs cannot be compared from brand to brand when some brands are notoriously more liberal, deceptive, conservative, under-rated, etc. They don't necessarily use the same standard of measurement and there is no governing body to enforce that the spec is legitimate.

With certainly a 6X9 has more output and goes lower than a 6.5" based on surface area. That's legit. Beyond that, specs don't tell a lot when you get outside the given brand.

 

[McTafur]

I ordered the M502 for my friend because it was for sale for $150 on Amazon. I am sure you could get used to it and it seemed to be a good unit.

This is the MS-IP600 that I installed in my SX230. I consider it to be a great unit. It is easy to control from the head unit or the remote. The buttons are big, clearly labeled and easy to use. The entire unit is sealed to prevent corrosion which had damaged the factory JVC head unit.

I suggest considering the the Infinity Marine Audio speakers. The specs are pretty amazing and my experience is that they live up to their specs.

I originally planned to install 6 of the Infinity 6x9s and two subs with an amp. After installing 4 of the Infinity 6x9s I decided that they had plenty of base and the subs were unnecessary. Currently I have 4 6x9s in the factory locations with enlarged holes and 2 on the swim deck behind the seat cushions. I am waiting for an upholstery shop to call and say that they are ready to modify my front seat backs to make room for two more in the bow area. The MS-IP600 is capable of providing 70 watts per channel for four channels at 2 ohms. I have the four speakers in the factory location wired up in parallel to provide a 2 ohm load on two channels. Currently the swim deck speakers are using the other two channels at 4 ohms but they will be paralleled to 2 ohms as well once the seat backs are ready.

Hey Bruce, Did you need to add a mounting plate with the install of the Fusion HU?

 

[Bruce]

Hey Bruce, Did you need to add a mounting plate with the install of the Fusion HU?

Yes, Will @JetBoatPilot made it for me. I believe he is now offering it as a product. I provided details at The 2007 Stereo Head Unit opening is not DIN sized, it is too large

 

[McTafur]

So after consideration and doing some additional research, I have decided on a configuration. Problem is, I'm not sure that I have enough power from my amp or what way of wiring would be ideal. I'll pass it on to some of you pro's to look at and let me know what you think. Here is the equipment with specs.
Here's what I got...

- Fusion MS IP600 with rear remote
- 2 pairs JL MX 770s (rms 70w/4ohm)
- 1 mx10ib sub (rms 175w/4ohm)
- 1 pair of bazooka mt650 (rms 100w/4ohm)
- 1 JL m600/6 channel (6x60w@4ohms/6x90w@2ohms

-Do I have enough power to run everything without the use of my HU?
-I've been doing research all day on how to wire this thing but am not confident so any suggestions would be more than appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[jcyamaharider]

If you would like clarion the m303 is an awesome head unit. It's what I have and I have no complaints except no front and rear pre outs along with a sub preout. Just a front

 

[David Analog]

So after consideration and doing some additional research, I have decided on a configuration. Problem is, I'm not sure that I have enough power from my amp or what way of wiring would be ideal. I'll pass it on to some of you pro's to look at and let me know what you think. Here is the equipment with specs.
Here's what I got...

- Fusion MS IP600 with rear remote
- 2 pairs JL MX 770s (rms 70w/4ohm)
- 1 mx10ib sub (rms 175w/4ohm)
- 1 pair of bazooka mt650 (rms 100w/4ohm)
- 1 JL m600/6 channel (6x60w@4ohms/6x90w@2ohms

-Do I have enough power to run everything without the use of my HU?
-I've been doing research all day on how to wire this thing but am not confident so any suggestions would be more than appreciated. Thanks in advance.

You definitely have enough channels to safely drive the entire system without the use of the head unit power. However, from the standpoint of getting all the potential performance from your gear....
The larger 7.7" really deserve a dedicated channel per speaker.
The sub requires two channels bridged.
That just exhausted all six channels.
You will not have the Bazookas on the tower for very long. So purchase the amplifier that will drive the next and final set of tower speakers versus what you have today so that you only have to purchase that amplifier once. A JL Audio M400/4 bridged will drive any single pair of surf speakers or HLCDs extremely well.
You don't have to do the entire project in one phase. You can always wire for the extra amperage draw and install the distribution blocks, RCAs, remote trigger, and tower harness for the second amplifier in advance. Avoid installing anything that will need to be replaced or re-done. It definitely saves in the long run.

 

[McTafur]

You definitely have enough channels to safely drive the entire system without the use of the head unit power. However, from the standpoint of getting all the potential performance from your gear....
The larger 7.7" really deserve a dedicated channel per speaker.
The sub requires two channels bridged.
That just exhausted all six channels.
You will not have the Bazookas on the tower for very long. So purchase the amplifier that will drive the next and final set of tower speakers versus what you have today so that you only have to purchase that amplifier once. A JL Audio M400/4 bridged will drive any single pair of surf speakers or HLCDs extremely well.
You don't have to do the entire project in one phase. You can always wire for the extra amperage draw and install the distribution blocks, RCAs, remote trigger, and tower harness for the second amplifier in advance. Avoid installing anything that will need to be replaced or re-done. It definitely saves in the long run.

Great. Thanks for the help.

 

[Julian]

Correct - I would not recommend the 502 as the single button interface is annoying. I'm camping so can't write a lengthy reply. ..

 

[Murf'n'surf]

@Julian Dont burn those marshmallows!!