MEGA FANGs Cobra AK Power Steering: Doughnuts In Reverse

[swatski]

EDIT #2: Please note Post #20, below, with some clarifications about this thread.

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EDIT: Please also check Jeff's @Cobra Jet Steering LLC clarifications/corrections of some inaccuracies in my post, below - in Post #3.
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This past weekend, I was able to test a prototype of the new system that Jeff was talking about in the other thread:
https://jetboaters.net/threads/f-y-i-i-am-selling-out-the-remaining-fangs-forthe-ultimate-steering-systems.15856/
(offered at a nice discount for the first few users, too - thank you)

This new system adds oversized MEGA FANGs to the AK Magnum setup - essentially a single Ultimate per pump working in harmony with a pair of FANGs on steroids, and supported by an extra steering rod.

There a many older threads describing the basic Cobra systems:
https://jetboaters.net/threads/fangs-for-cobra-venoms-first-impressions.8960/
https://jetboaters.net/threads/fangs-for-cobra-venoms-first-impressions.8960/
https://jetboaters.net/threads/2016-ar240-cobra-fins-magnum-ak-w-fangs-install-and-first-impressions-plus-ez-locks-refresher.11530/
https://jetboaters.net/threads/cobrajet-ultimate-fins-and-fangs-installation-video.9167/

The install is pretty much a breeze, same as w/regular FANGS - using the side force stabilizer instead of the direct mount onto the main fin (as in AK Magnum). Works even better if you can retain a trusted helper:


The MEGAs channel the water in reverse giving it more thrust and directionality - here is the original bolt holding the steering nozzle on the left (upside down), being replaced by the side force stabilizer bolt on the right:


And assembled on the boat:


These MEGA FANGs, just like the regular FANGS (but not AK FANGs), can be mounted as an independent system, without the fins (Ultimates or Magnums).

A distinguishing feature of MEGAs for the new keeled hulls (AK models): the inside MEGA FANGS will have a cut-out to accommodate the steering rods - OEM and extra (pic courtesy Cobra LLC):

(EDIT: This is a regular FANG in pic, the MEGAs are significantly larger - see @Cobra Jet Steering LLC post below)


The system is dynamite!

When going forward - the boat feels planted and turns extremely sharp w/the main fins in "down at speed" position (an adjustable feature). There is a pronounced power steering effect afforded by the two pairs of MEGAs - projecting forward off of each nozzle.
Turning is so sharp, one needs to be very careful not to be thrown off of the seat.

But here is the kicker:

This system works fantastic in reverse, adding both speed and directional enhancements. The stock reverse is barely functional - enough to stop the boat and kind of push it back but it is extremely sluggish and there is really not much directional steering capability (with the stock reverse). This is all completely cured with the MEGA FANGSs.

Here is a clip showing unbelievably improved steering in reverse (w/MEGA FANGs installed in a "keeled" 24' hull - 2016 AR240):

Testing is in reverse going into a long ~270 degree turn to PORT followed by a switch to ~180 degree turn to STRBD (at ~26 seconds mark) - all done without touching the throttles.

The results are very impressive. I wish I had a helper or better yet - a drone - to get some nicer footage. But even with that sloppy iPhone clip the results are very clear: a smooth turn in reverse is followed by a quick transition into the opposite turn - a maneuver that is impossible to execute with a stock boat.

Testing was done with both engines running constant ~4,000RPM without touching the throttles. Splitting the throttles can give extra zip to the already sharp functioning system, but I usually do not split my throttles so wanted to keep it real.

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[Neutron]

Nice results. Thanks for posting this

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Thank you @swatski for taking the time to post your information and for volunteering to do some early testing of the mega fangs on a 24 foot articulating keel jet boat that has my magnum A K steering and original A K fangs already installed and in use for a good amount of time including a trip out to the BAHAMAS and back . This is important for comparisons between the two different types of fang setups. Being a stickler for accuracy I would like to interject a few minor details because accuracy is the name of the game.
First is a minor thing but important to the accuracy goal so forgive me but the Magnum A K steering uses Magnum fins not ultimate fins, Thus the name.
The Magnum fins are smaller and I use those for a very important reason. MY " V " configuration to provide assisted steering influence to the original steering keeping them above the bottom of the factory rudder thus keeping the bottom of the fins up away from contacting the ground in shallow water use.
Greatly reducing the likelihood of the fins contacting the ground when in use.
I also designed the bracket to be capable of bending on contact with a solid object allowing the fins to move up if some solid object does come in contact with the fins during use to protect the other parts of the boat.
The brackets can easily be straightened many times should this occur.
I built the mega fangs to be compatible with a wide variety of steering systems, in this situation we are addressing the 23 and 24 foot keel boats application.
The Picture of the fang that was posted is actually a " regular ultimate fang " that was modified for mounting on a A K system with tie rods but it is a smaller regular fang not the MEGA Fang again just for the sake of total accuracy.
With that said The cutout was to accommodate the tie rods on this application and is not in all of the mega fangs.
There may be a need for other smaller cutouts to accommodate other applications like the round bar placed between the plastic fins if someone was to add them to a boat with that type of steering on it. The base brackets will also vary with application.
I want to also be very clear that the mega fangs were designed to provide POWER STEERING to provide excellent REVERSE STEERING and to increase the boats stopping power in reverse. SO this was the focus of making a couple of changes to the regular fangs and the increase in size, I also designed the changes to accommodate the surf point feature in the new boats. As far as improving your boats steering at slow idle or wide open throttle it appears that these do enhance the effect of my full time steering considerably. so the fins are adjustable and MY next suggestion for swatski was to try various settings and see what changing the fin depth does to the end result. Again this boat has a factory rudder and two magnum fins so the results may not be the same as with other steering like the Ultimate system.

Now when we get into the testing of the steering at TOP SPEED making an ABSOLOUTE FULL ABRUPT DELIBERATE TURN with the throttles on full blast , well I never expected that test and I must say do not do it , really and if you ever do any very hard turns in any boat for fun or for research be damn sure you turn to the LEFT and you do not have anyone in the boat like swatski said the g forces are very strong and that is a dangerous maneuver . So once more we covered this. I posted a picture of the mega fangs for the A K system and the one regular fang that had the cutout for the tie rod just for comparison.
I will entertain requests from a few other people who wish to test these on other setups and provide them with special real low prices in exchange for their feedback. So if you are interested and you have water without ice bergs on it like swatski has , I kid but bravo to a guy who goes out wearing gloves and a heavy jacket on very cold MO waters to test my mega fangs. will probably be out on warm water in Florida doing crazy stunts on my skies today so I may not answer your emails until I get back to the nursing home later today.

 

[swatski]

Jeff - thanks for clarifications, I should have known some of it...

if you ever do any very hard turns in any boat for fun or for research be damn sure you turn to the LEFT and you do not have anyone in the boat like swatski said the g forces are very strong and that is a dangerous maneuver

Well - this is VERY true and very important.

(Please, do NOT ask me how I know that)

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[geohil]

Too many options???
I'm reading the different threads and I'm not certain which product to choose? As one who had to repair gelcoat because reverse couldn't get me away from dock before the strong current pushed me against the corner, reverse is important. But we do a lot of boating on a shallow river, so the ability to have them kick up on contact also seems to be important. Is it only the Ultimate's that are spring loaded? The new mega fangs can be added to that?
Thanks for the input in advance - this is on my winter to-do list.

 

[swatski]

Too many options???
I'm reading the different threads and I'm not certain which product to choose? As one who had to repair gelcoat because reverse couldn't get me away from dock before the strong current pushed me against the corner, reverse is important. But we do a lot of boating on a shallow river, so the ability to have them kick up on contact also seems to be important. Is it only the Ultimate's that are spring loaded? The new mega fangs can be added to that?
Thanks for the input in advance - this is on my winter to-do list.

Well, I know what I like!
(@Cobra Jet Steering LLC please correct me if I have it wrong)

The AK Magnums with MEGA FANGs. That's it.

What you get is steering on steroids - good control in no wake, at WOT you feel like riding on rails, power steering, and the reverse that lets you run doughnuts (in reverse).

As far as running shallow in a river...
Well, I don't know of anyone running more shallow than me...
Here is one of my favorite spots on the river (that pass is about 6" deep at the 15 sec mark):

Here is how I get in and out of my marina - when the water is really low, and I really really need to get out on the water!

BTW - all that with Cobra AK Magnums w/FANGs.
Full disclosure: I did need to straighten the brackets once, which took about 10min.

And regardless, the fins, even at their lowest setting, are still reaching down only like a foot above the bottom of the AK (articulating keel) rudder. So, something to think about - the hull damage is the real concern.
The fins (worst case scenario) - just need the brackets straitened out. That takes two pieces of plywood, a hammer, and about 10 min.

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[geohil]

Well, I know what I like!
(@Cobra Jet Steering LLC please correct me if I have it wrong)

The AK Magnums with MEGA FANGs. That's it.

What you get is steering on steroids - good control in no wake, at WOT you feel like riding on rails, power steering, and the reverse that lets you run doughnuts (in reverse).

As far as running shallow in a river...
Well, I don't know of anyone running more shallow than me...
Here is one of my favorite spots on the river (that pass is about 6" deep at the 15 sec mark):

Here is how I get in and out of my marina - when the water is really low, and I really really need to get out on the water!

https://jetboaters.net/threads/how-shallow-can-you-go.11781/

BTW - all that with Cobra AK Magnums w/FANGs.
Full disclosure: I did need to straiten the brackets once, which took about 10min.

And regardless, the fins, even at the lowest setting, are still almost a foot above the bottom of the AK (articulating keel) rudder - something to think about - the hull damage is the real concern.
The fins (worst case scenario) - just need the brackets straitened out. That takes two pieces of plywood, a hammer, and about 10 min.

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I always forget about the keel being lower than the pump/fang.
Sounds like this new system will be the answer then. Hopefully Santa will be good to me.

That is some seriously shallow water! Here is home-ramp for me (my house is just upstream). Always shallow running and all rock/gravel. Back in the I/O and outboard days we would ruin a prop/skeg a year.

 

[Mainah]

I have a suggestion for @Cobra Jet Steering LLC. The improved ak total system when buying complete and new could be called the ak mega. The upgrade kit from magnum to mega could be called the ak mega upgrade kit. Just my .02 as it can be confusing for someone unfamiliar. Given @swatski review the upgrade is now on my must have list.

I am underwhelmed with the high speed turning of my 242 coming from flat bottom twin engine 2 smoke boats. Still not going to do the 360 plus spins that I miss but sounds like I can get the Gs I miss while improving reverse.

 

[swatski]

Always shallow running and all rock/gravel. Back in the I/O and outboard days we would ruin a prop/skeg a year.

And that is also why I looked into jet boats in the first place! Got tired of the hassle and the danger of hitting stuff with a lower. Bought my first Yammie after I had a season with not one, not two,...but three (3) lower units destroyed, LOL. Not funny.

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[geohil]

And that is also why I looked into jet boats in the first place! Got tired of the hassle and the danger of hitting stuff with a lower. Bought my first Yammie after I had a season with not one, not two,...but three (3) lower units destroyed, LOL. Not funny.

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Gravel just sucks - literally. I had a Honda Aquatrax F-12X that I had modified and remapped to run race gas. I had just purchased a Skat-Trac impeller and had it re-pitched by Impros so I could break the 70 mph mark. First run I sucked a rock through it and killed the stainless impeller and a couple other parts. That is why even living on the river I primarily tow to surrounding lakes.

 

[Ancient canoe]

For boats with the articulating keel is there any reason that you would not want the fins down at speed?

 

[Lion]

Well, I know what I like!
(@Cobra Jet Steering LLC please correct me if I have it wrong)

The AK Magnums with MEGA FANGs. That's it.

What you get is steering on steroids - good control in no wake, at WOT you feel like riding on rails, power steering, and the reverse that lets you run doughnuts (in reverse).

As far as running shallow in a river...
Well, I don't know of anyone running more shallow than me...
Here is one of my favorite spots on the river (that pass is about 6" deep at the 15 sec mark):

Here is how I get in and out of my marina - when the water is really low, and I really really need to get out on the water!

BTW - all that with Cobra AK Magnums w/FANGs.
Full disclosure: I did need to straighten the brackets once, which took about 10min.

And regardless, the fins, even at their lowest setting, are still reaching down only like a foot above the bottom of the AK (articulating keel) rudder. So, something to think about - the hull damage is the real concern.
The fins (worst case scenario) - just need the brackets straitened out. That takes two pieces of plywood, a hammer, and about 10 min.

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It’s great to see that the mods have worked out. I purchased the MEGAs before the modifications and have returned them for the fix.
I must say that I am excited to get them back soon... even though I won’t be getting on the water till April...... lol
I’m such a kid
Thanks Swatski for the great Review

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I was playing hooky just cruising all over on the water, I just returned and I will address the questions after I get everything cleaned up .. It was a beautiful day I must say.

 

[geohil]

I was playing hooky just cruising all over on the water, I just returned and I will address the questions after I get everything cleaned up .. It was a beautiful day I must say.

Strange that the envious symbol looks like I'm wishing ill will??
45 degrees and raining here - so jealousy is more like it!

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Ok all cleaned and the nursing home has a new rule NO getting on the computer while cooking dinner well after the PIZZA I burned the other day I thought my computer was on fire.
@geohil The magnum A K system with the extra tie rod is the set you really want, it is a model specific system for the twin engine keel boats.
The fins are on the outside of each nozzle to expose them to water flow all the time, they are not oversized but they can be adjusted to different levels.
I started making this system a few years ago for the first 24 foot keel boats .
The keel really overpowers the rudder, the original single tie rod is obviously not balancing out the work load, the rudder is hiding behind the wide keel so it is sluggish to react to the helm and the helm was geared down to put twice the travel in the wheel to accomplish the same amount of movement at the nozzle end making you turn your steering twice as far for the same nozzle travel of the regular boats.
I assume this was meant to accomplish the lower steering resistance feel by the operator.
The resistance is still there but the gearing hides it.
I made the original fang on each fin as a way to create a real reduction in the forces at work on the steering components rather than just hide it.
I also addressed the lack of reverse control using the same part , The fang protrudes forward of the nozzle pivot point to reduce the working forces on the parts and it also helps direct the reverse thrust further under the boat for improved effect .
Over time people were providing me feedback with their wish list. mostly more control in reverse so the mega fangs were designed to accomplish this without giving up any of the benefits of having a true reverse system.
@Ancient canoe To your question I can not think of any reason to have fins working only part time considering the huge keel down the center of the boat resisting turning more as the boats speed increases . I want all the control I can get so I can enjoy driving and not be constantly working the wheel or needing to totally stay focused on the front of the boat, especially around beaches with lots of females in swim attire strutting around.
Seriously though driving your boat should never be taxing or stressful, it is supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable.
@Mainah Someplace in all this there is a reason for everything and I actually have my phone number on my web page for people to call me and ask questions and my email for the same reason, just think how the 3 different vipers get confusing CJS VIPER ,VIPER NK and VIPER N K 2 But it is what it is anyone who has a question is welcome to ask, and if they have been lied to by anyone who is trying to persuade them not to buy my systems just let me know I will address any misinformation directly. I have been doing this a long time. I have heard all the comical nonsense, hopefully people have enough sense to ask about any information they are unsure about.
I am planning to make some stand alone mega fangs available for people who only want the benefits of those without the added fins .
Because I try not to leave anyone out. To this end if you have the part time plastic fins and would like to be a volunteer like swatski just get with me and I will see if your situation is doable. This time of year I understand the number of people boating has greatly diminished and it is important to be able to test and provide feedback in a timely manor. So I think I covered everything.
You locals know Bunces pass sand bar well this was today not a boat on the inside of the pass and only 1 or 2 on the gulf side

 

[swatski]

For boats with the articulating keel is there any reason that you would not want the fins down at speed?

I 'm not sure there is. The risk of damage is minor, you will hit the hull keel and AK rudder first anyway. WHen I bent mine, which was really very minor, I think it might have been from sitting in the muck actually, but I don't really know. I had no issues with those fins for now over a year and 100 hrs of hard running, and none before with the Ultimates and Fangs in my 190 - also run hard for two or so years.

I would say that aside from the pleasure of having the boat curve like a race car, the main advantage of having the fins down at speed is the ability to turn, at least somewhat, under breaking or diminished thrust. I addressed some of that in my other post on AKs https://jetboaters.net/threads/2016-ar240-cobra-fins-magnum-ak-w-fangs-install-and-first-impressions-plus-ez-locks-refresher.11530/

I would say - with the E-series boat that would be a rather important consideration, as those have essentially no reverse at speed - electronically limited. These AK hulls handle like a log (stock) and I would think it is just plain crazy to have NO directional or breaking control in reverse at speed whatsoever with a stock E-series 24'.

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[swatski]

I actually have my phone number on my web page for people to call me and ask questions

That is good to know! One of these days I'm going to call you, Jeff. LOL. I don't think we ever talked, actually, now that I think about it.

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[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

In the nursing home I have to whisper. Ok But I have a hard enough time just getting you to answer my emails, LOL

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

So I spent Friday and Saturday on the water and it was just great weather, air low 80's water mid 70's Today I think I will stay on land and take my nurse to garage sales rather than boating. Because she said so! LOL
Seriously you have no idea what you are missing if you do not have all time steering with power steering and enhanced reverse control regardless of what other steering you have or no extra steering at all. You should give this serious consideration. It's a game changer!

 

[swatski]

I have been asked to explain some of the observations I reported in this thread.
Some asked if perhaps my observations were overly optimistic, other suggested that my comments may be just off the wall. LOL. Let me assure you - it wouldn't be the first time! But in this case I must say: au contraire. So far, I don't think I exaggerated much of anything. Let me summarize what I think the important points are.

I think I made the following three (3) major claims regarding the benefits of those new MEGA fins:

1. Improved reverse
   
2. "Power steering" effect
   
3. Reduced stress on steering linkages

Speaking strictly for myself (no relation to Jeff, @Cobra Jet Steering LLC ).


1. Claim: Improved reverse
(enhanced steering in reverse and enhanced "breaking"/stopping power)

EXPLANATION
That one is pretty easy - the MEGAs simply focus the reverse jet. The way it works, the reverse thrust is generated by the water "escaping" through the bottom opening in the steering nozzle - when the central/main/back opening of the nozzle is enclosed by the buckets (dropping down).

That water (streaming out of the bottom of the steering nozzle) disperses quickly as it lacks much of any direction. It does shoot backwards somewhat but there is nothing to "channel" or focus that stream.
The MEGAs do that! - the PAIRED MEGAs (but not so much the single fangs) focus water coming out of the bottom nozzle in the reverse direction, with a slight built-in toe-in alignment.

In other words, without MEGAs that water disperses quickly but with MEGAs (mounted on both sides of the bottom nozzle/opening) water shoots back more directionally and the thrust is substantially enhanced (in the reverse direction).

The total force of the water molecules/energy is of course unchanged, but the vector of their movement is.

(The main fins - MAGNUMs - don't do that as they are positioned further back: MEGAs are sticking forward, MAGNUM are sticking backwards - of the steering nozzles)

So - the bottom line is with the MEGAs there is more push in the reverse direction. Therefore, faster reverse and more "breaking" (stopping) power.

Verdict? I think that claim is legit...


As an aside (and a bit of trivia) and another way to think of this question is in terms of principles of hydrodynamic focusing.
Two Stanford professors, Len (Leonard) Herzenberg and his wife Leonore, who were responsible for developing a technique called "flow cytometry" (a mainstay of modern blood cell diagnostics) used to explain the principle of hydrodynamic focusing in the following way (back when - when I was hanging out with them):
Len would simply point out that hydrodynamic focusing also provides the mechanistic basis for men being able to urinate while standing (generating "stream in the air"). True story. It was too funny.

But back to Cobra fins...



2. Claim: "Power steering" effect

EXPLANATION
The MEGAs stick forward of the "pivot" or axis defined by a line connecting bolts that attach the steering nozzle to the venturi nozzle. Water forces pushing on the MEGAs thus counteract the forces pushing on the MAGNUMs (which are sticking backwards of the "pivot").

In other words - if the line between steering nozzle mounting bolts is the "fixed hinge", or fulcrum, the MAGNUMs become the long(er) arm of the lever and the MEGAs become the short arm. The force of water pushing on the short arm (MEGA) offsets the force needed to turn/push the long arm (MAGNUM) against the water (when driving forward and turning the steering nozzle).
Hence - "power steering" effect or "power assist".

Of course this is not the same mechanism as in automotive power steering, but it is a steering assist nevertheless. Jeff likes to call it "power steering". I don't see anything wrong with that.

Verdict: I think that claim is 100% legit.



3. Claim: Reduced stress on steering linkages

EXPLANATION
This one is a bit more nuanced.

There is no question the MAGNUMs (deployed down at speed) will put additional force/strain on steering linkages in turns (as compared to riding with no fins) as they function essentially as a rudder - which is a good thing.

In this regard, adding a smaller, forward facing MEGAs (positioned on the other side of the "fulcrum") helps balance the larger MAGNUMs - relieving some of that additional pressure on the steering linkages.

Still, MAGNUM and MEGA (on both sides of the "fulcrum") will add lateral force on the pump in a turn (due to centrifugal forces of water molecules - in outward direction). Should that be a concern? I don't think so! - even though there is more lateral force on the pump - that's just like a skeg in an outboard motor lower unit. The pumps' transom mounts must be strong enough to push the boat - if those little fins compromise jet pump mounts I would say one has larger issues to deal with.

As far as the steering linkages themselves, to put this in perspective, Yamaha steering cables seem to last about 10 years on average before they need to be replaced - fins or no fins.

I personally think that those cables break primarily due to internal corrosion, more affected by water intrusion than usage, but more stress is probably not helping. And here - the MEGAs really help the larger fins - reducing the stress on steering linkages.

Verdict: So, this claim is also completely legit, IMO. Albeit fins by definition put more force on the steering linkages, the MEGAs (or any FANGs) offset that force.



Additional points:

1. In case of an impact, the fins' mounting brackets are the sacrificial (softer) part which "gives" during an impact. Those are easily fixable at home. But at any rate, the articulating keel reaches almost a foot lower than the fins so damaging the hull and the new factory rudder is more of a concern, fins or no fins.
   
2. MEGAs do not make the boat turn in any unexpected fashion. In fact, I find the steering to be a lot more controlled. It is predictable and also very sharp - like a race car.

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