Ok here is a thought....engine packages!

[ScarabMike]

I was washing the boat today, and I had a thought. I was wondering what you guys thought. Now please think about this with open minds, and away from brand enthusiasm..

What if what BRP has done with the Rotax engine catches on? I think there will be more and more popularity with jetboats in the future with all the updates, and technology thats available now. Some boat builders wont want to design their own engine packages, and I think like BRP, companies like Kawasaki, and Yamaha will probably offer their engine packages to other boat manufacturers to cash in on their sales.

This might lead to different engine packages available for a boat manufacture like lets say Regal. You can by X model, then choose your engine package.

I think that will be great for the industry, and it will be awesome to see what tech others can come up with. This will also grow the jetboat family. We might be seeing a new style of boating. Heck I would expect to even see some Boston Whaler flats boats come with jet engines to maximize space, and reach waters where only an air boat could go. Pretty cool.

 

[OrangeTJ]

I like the concept - pretty much like choosing Mercruiser or Volvo Penta on a stern drive boat. I do wonder how much the pump design impacts the hull design, though.

 

[KXCam22]

Yamaha used to make an I/O, Basicically a mercruiser 350 dressed up in Yami colors and logos with a nice Yamaha leg. Cam.

 

[Speedling]

From studying a bit you can't just slap in a jet pump. A stepped hull won't work. A dual engine would be best as it would work with a typical v hull. I would go on and on about it, but a yamaha pump has to use the hull for the intake of the pump.
A more universal system would make things easier, for sure.
I hope to make a baja speedboat/cruiser type into a jet someday so i am doing the research now!

 

[Julian]

Boat builders typically only use one engine company so they can get the best volume buying power, and then don't switch because their dealers are certified on that engine type. Switching would get expensive to the dealers.

Putting jet pumps on a prop hull would be ill advised unless it is an older hull with little to no straking. Strakes are designed to create bubbles to reduce friction on the hull...but bubbles mess with jet pumps....which makes one wonder if props will further out perform jets in terms of economy as their friction reducing elements become more and more impressive. The bigger yachts already have air injection systems....

 

[ScarabMike]

Guys Im talking about designed boats for jets.

Example: Company A decides to build a jet boat, and uses company B for the engine. Im not talking about go with a Jet on a prop boat.

Basically selling the jet engines as a package.

 

[OrangeTJ]

Boat builders typically only use one engine company so they can get the best volume buying power, and then don't switch because their dealers are certified on that engine type. Switching would get expensive to the dealers.

Putting jet pumps on a prop hull would be ill advised unless it is an older hull with little to no straking. Strakes are designed to create bubbles to reduce friction on the hull...but bubbles mess with jet pumps....which makes one wonder if props will further out perform jets in terms of economy as their friction reducing elements become more and more impressive. The bigger yachts already have air injection systems....

As far as I've seen, most boat builders (prop boats) offer engine/drive combos from both Volvo Penta and Mercruiser.

 

[Julian]

Some do, but from my experience most smaller boat builders don't. Cobalt and Chaparral does for example, but Crownline, Mastercraft, Tige, Yamaha and Seadoo (among others) do not.

I do agree though that it would be cool to be able to chose your power plant.

This is an interesting article on the two top dogs in I/O power plants:

http://features.boats.com/boat-content/2013/01/stern-drive-engines-mercruiser-vs-volvo-penta/

 

[Bruce]

I/O engine and drive systems from competing manufacturers are much more similar than jet drives. It would be cool to be able to pick your power plant but it would require more similar pump designs.

Boston Whaler built jet boats in the 90s. https://sites.google.com/site/bostonwhalerrestore/the-boat

 

[ScarabMike]

Check out Glastron. They go from Evinrude to Mercury to Yamaha.

 

[cwoav8r]

My dream boat would be a 37' Formula PC with Hamilton jet pumps... there is a deadrise issue with implementing jet drives, I can't find the reference at the moment but I think it was around 20 degrees. The deadrise on Formula 37 PC is 18 degrees so that should not be an issue... but what would the performance and economy numbers look like? I will be in a Formula sometime in the near future... picking the power is causing some headaches given the waters that I will be in. I was really stoked about the Volvo IPS drives until I did some research... now I don't know. Formula, team up with Hamilton... Please!

Some FAQ's from the Hamilton site:

http://www.hamiltonjet.com/pages/FAQ.html

 

[cwoav8r]

@ScarabMike he mentioned Volvo too!

 

[Speedling]

My dream boat would be a 37' Formula PC with Hamilton jet pumps... there is a deadrise issue with implementing jet drives, I can't find the reference at the moment but I think it was around 20 degrees. The deadrise on Formula 37 PC is 18 degrees so that should not be an issue... but what would the performance and economy numbers look like? I will be in a Formula sometime in the near future... picking the power is causing some headaches given the waters that I will be in. I was really stoked about the Volvo IPS drives until I did some research... now I don't know. Formula, team up with Hamilton... Please!

Some FAQ's from the Hamilton site:

http://www.hamiltonjet.com/pages/FAQ.html

This is almost exactly what i mean!
First, yes, 20 degrees is the limit on the Hamilton but that is due to the intake grate construction available from Hamilton.
Fyi, two yamaha pumps have more pump volume than the hj212 most people use from Hamilton. Also, the Hamilton is limited to 5000 rpm so mating a svho motor is not happening without gear reduction.

I actually have a research paper started on all this and it is already 3 finished pages with about 10 pages of specs, calculations and research but haven't reached any conclusions.

If you wanted yamaha engines, you would need to go jets or dual drives. Even at 250 hp times two you just don't have the same power!

If you want dual jets on anything over 25' i would think you at least need the newer 160mm pumps and svho motors or small block v8 power, or some actual speed or bigger boat, twin Hamilton with 454's or better. I would love to see two ecoboost v6 with Hamilton or Berkeley drives. Berkeley is actually something worth considering as they have better rpm capability as well.

But my father in law should take the 305 out of his 19' glasstron from the 80's and put in one 1.8 and be done

 

[OrangeTJ]

I'm curious how pumps like the Berkeley jets compare with the Yamaha pumps or those paired to the Rotax engines. Used to see those Berkeley pumps on the back of performance-oriented boats all the time. They operated behind engines with much lower rev ceilings than ours (but likely a LOT more torque). Wonder why you don't really see that type of drive on anything other than custom go-fast boats these days.

 

[Speedling]

I'm curious how pumps like the Berkeley jets compare with the Yamaha pumps or those paired to the Rotax engines. Used to see those Berkeley pumps on the back of performance-oriented boats all the time. They operated behind engines with much lower rev ceilings than ours (but likely a LOT more torque). Wonder why you don't really see that type of drive on anything other than custom go-fast boats these days.

They are designed similarly to yamaha or sea doo pumps, just larger. In essence, they pick up in horsepower rating where the yamaha ones leave off. And just like our pumps, they have a power to speed curve that rises exponentially and they also have a sweet spot for fuel economy.
A single Berkeley with 360 hp would be only slightly faster than our 212ss with 360 and two pumps (assuming the newer 1.8's are used) because of the reduction in friction throughout and also surface area in the pumps. Efficiency would come at different rpms on the pump and there are many more variables.

But that's all fun to speculate, however, i think the op was hinting it would be nice to order any boat with a selection of more engine and drive options. Such as ordering a baja as a jet, or a yamaha with an inboard prop.
I personally would LOVE to test a catamaran offshore racing type of hull with twin jets, one in each runner.

 

[OrangeTJ]

I was only considering having options for powerplants in jet driven boats. Hard to imagine Yamaha offering theirs with anything other than Yamaha power, though! It would be cool, though, if you could order your Chaparral, Scarab, or Sea Ray (if they ever come back to the market) with either Rotax or Yamaha power...or maybe some other jet power altogether. I'm thinking that an ecoboost powering a sizeable pump would be AWESOME and very good for folks boating at higher elevations.