Possibly some new info on NMEA 2000 compatibility

[thefastz]

So looking at the Tech Specs for the 210 FSH on https://www.yamahaboats.com/center-console/210-fsh-sport/ it shows NMEA 2000 compatibility. However, looking under the helm I have not found a NMEA 2000 cable or backbone. I called Yamaha the other day and they did confirm that the 210 FSH is NMEA 2000 compatible but noted there were some issues with Garmin electronics. They were not able to confirm where I could find the connection and advised to check the owners manual (did not see anything there) or wait for the service manual (they are still compiling the data). I wanted to post this as I know there was some back and forth in the past about the 190 FSH being NMEA 2000 compatible. I have yet to look within the electronics in the engine bay if I can find a NMEA connector but was wondering if any other FSH owners have found anything on the newer boats?

 

[Frank Marshall]

I looked at a 2018 AR210/212 service manual. Through a search I found 2 references to NMEA. Both connectors. First pager lower right GPS antenna pin C = nmea183. The second center top Tachometer pin 5 = nmea183.



Don't know how it helps though. Maybe somebody does.

 

[Mainah]

I built a custom canbus controller from an Arduino and MCP chip. I hooked it up to a laptop to parse out the NMEA serial data. Water temp, depth, and speed are all you will be able to get in standard N2K. The rest is proprietary N2K for Connext and the engine canbus is a separate Yamaha animal altogether . I did manage to decode the Connext jog dial commands on the proprietary side and did post that info in another post here. The NMEA 0183 going to the tach is the GPS antenna feeding into the tach which decodes it and outputs the speed. My goal was to build my own speed control system that plugged directly into the n2k connector and iterated the rpm cruise control buttons. I did it and it worked but not good enough. The 200 rpm steps and button iteration speed proved to proved to have too little resolution for smooth operation. I ended up buying Ridesteady. I don't want to discourage anyone from trying but unless you can build and code a controller to decode Proprietary NMEA and the proprietary Yamaha canbus for the jet boats which is different from their outboards I think it is pretty much a lost cause in the current crop of Yamaha jet boats.

 

[thefastz]

Thanks for the screen grabs, Frank!

Mainah that is impressive! I'm curious, were you using the NMEA0183 lines to pull the data? Or is there another connector passing the NMEA 2000 data? The reason I ask is that, isn't there a considerable difference between NMEA 2K and 0183, including the amount/type of information that is sent over 2k?

 

[Frank Marshall]

You've got to love this forum. I new somebody would have answers. Thanks for speaking up.

 

[Grover70]

While you're on this subject, I was wondering, are these connectors in the wiring harness related to NMEA or...? I always like to add new gadgets to the boat..

 

[Mainah]

The gray 4 pin cap is the n2k. The main difference between nmea 0183 and n2k is the baud rate and becuase of the lower baud rate in nmea 0183 there is less data. Connext acts as a translator for all of the canbus protocols and the nmea 0183 is insterted in the n2k stream.

 

[Grover70]

The gray 4 pin cap is the n2k. The main difference between nmea 0183 and n2k is the baud rate and becuase of the lower baud rate in nmea 0183 there is less data. Connext acts as a translator for all of the canbus protocols and the nmea 0183 is insterted in the n2k stream.

So, this means my '17 FSH can connect to NMEA equipped electronics. I'm thinking this allows me to use the add-ons such as engine telemetry and other details I can't see on the base readout of my FSH?

 

[Mainah]

So, this means my '17 FSH can connect to NMEA equipped electronics. I'm thinking this allows me to use the add-ons such as engine telemetry and other details I can't see on the base readout of my FSH?

Proprietary means it can’t. Except for depth, water temp, and speed.

 

[Grover70]

Proprietary means it can’t. Except for depth, water temp, and speed.

Okay. Don't really need to do anything then. Guess I'm gonna save some $.

 

[Hector Leiva]

So looking at the Tech Specs for the 210 FSH on https://www.yamahaboats.com/center-console/210-fsh-sport/ it shows NMEA 2000 compatibility. However, looking under the helm I have not found a NMEA 2000 cable or backbone. I called Yamaha the other day and they did confirm that the 210 FSH is NMEA 2000 compatible but noted there were some issues with Garmin electronics. They were not able to confirm where I could find the connection and advised to check the owners manual (did not see anything there) or wait for the service manual (they are still compiling the data). I wanted to post this as I know there was some back and forth in the past about the 190 FSH being NMEA 2000 compatible. I have yet to look within the electronics in the engine bay if I can find a NMEA connector but was wondering if any other FSH owners have found anything on the newer boats?

FYI, I own a 2017 190 FSH Deluxe and my documentation indicated my boat was also NMEA compatible. Contacted Yamaha and was given same information as you, but was never able to located connector. After much research Yamaha dealer mechanic advised me that the Yamaha engines are NMEA compatible but not ready. Meaning their connecto/output are not standard. At some point and time Yamaha may decide to manufacturer a very expensive NMEA compatible connector.

 

[Mainah]

FYI, I own a 2017 190 FSH Deluxe and my documentation indicated my boat was also NMEA compatible. Contacted Yamaha and was given same information as you, but was never able to located connector. After much research Yamaha dealer mechanic advised me that the Yamaha engines are NMEA compatible but not ready. Meaning their connecto/output are not standard. At some point and time Yamaha may decide to manufacturer a very expensive NMEA compatible connector.

The connector is nmea 2k standard in that it is four wire. The baud rate is nmea 2k standard. The data over the connection is actually nmea 2k standard. The issue is that most of the data falls into the proprietary band on PGN which are set aside for just that by the standard. Yamaha could fix that with a software update or hardware that decodes and parses the data into the non proprietary PGNs.

As for how I am so certain. I did build and code my own canbus contoller and did parse out all of the different pgns proprietary and otherwise on the n2k bus. I was only interested in one at the time and was able to decode it. I did post that up that for anyone with the know how to use it at the time. If someone wants a controller to decode all of the data and send it to another device like a fishfinder I could likely do it. The amount of time would be nuts even though the hardware would be realtively cheap. The problem is my time is neither cheap nor plentiful.

Here is the proof.
https://jetboaters.net/threads/connext-joystick-nmea-info.11513/

 

[Sbrown]

FYI, I own a 2017 190 FSH Deluxe and my documentation indicated my boat was also NMEA compatible. Contacted Yamaha and was given same information as you, but was never able to located connector. After much research Yamaha dealer mechanic advised me that the Yamaha engines are NMEA compatible but not ready. Meaning their connecto/output are not standard. At some point and time Yamaha may decide to manufacturer a very expensive NMEA compatible connector.

Correct. Exactly what they mean by "compatible but not ready". There would be an adapter cable and probably a gateway that would be needed to connect the Yamaha connector to a NMEA 2k backbone. Currently trying to figure out exactly what adapter to use, if it exists.

 

[Mainah]

I don’t care about being right. Truly I don’t. I am trying to save everyone time and money. I live and breathe code and data on a much bigger scale and complexity for a living and have been for 18 years. Proprietary pgns will not be read without something to parse, decode, and foward them. Yes a “gateway” could do that but why go through the trouble of writing code on two sides of the house for a proprietary pgn when the code is already written for non proprietary? Well to keep it proprietary is the only reasonable answer.

 

[Hector Leiva]

Well... if anyone is able to accomplish this there Yamaha boat owners all over the world that would be willing to buy the device/connector/interface, myself being one.

 

[djetok]

Could you guys speak English for us layman

 

[Scottintexas]

I don't even pretend to understand any of this but I wonder why Yamaha outboards are able to connect nema2k to chartplotters?

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/621352-success-yamaha-outboard-direct-garmin-nmea-2000-data-via-lowrance-ep-20-cable.html

 

[Hector Leiva]

I don't even pretend to understand any of this but I wonder why Yamaha outboards are able to connect nema2k to chartplotters?

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/621352-success-yamaha-outboard-direct-garmin-nmea-2000-data-via-lowrance-ep-20-cable.html

Your right. For what ever reason Yamaha outboard engines are fully compatible and easy to access/connect. Mystery why they have chosen to go proprietary with the jet engines.

 

[Mainah]

Well... if anyone is able to accomplish this there Yamaha boat owners all over the world that would be willing to buy the device/connector/interface, myself being one.

I am not adverse to making money but personally fail to understand the value of having engine data repeated on a second display. This is not the first post to come around like this so obviously there is a demand that I fail to understand. Kind of like how I fail to understand design compromising engineering yet enjoy beautiful design. Can someone enlighten me to the benefits as they see them. I really am asking and not being a jerk.

I am aware that yamaha outboards are nmea 2k compatible and they have registered their protocols with the association (I have them). The same is not true for the jet engines. My only guess is that it has something to do with them contracting third parties for the jetboat interfaces but still fail to grasp why proprietary.

 

[subysti]

@Mainah I believe the reason people want this is that a lot of the newer high end fish finders/chart plotters can display all the engine data. For me that would mean I could remove the 2 tachs next to my conext screen and flush mount a chart plotter screen and have everything in that screen without having to have it mounted elsewhere. It would be a cleaner install. I could have a split screen with the tachs on one side and gps on the other.