Problem solving a construction issue - help me out!

[Speedling]

Ok, so I was at the permit office today and got a lot done, BUT, when I brought my paperwork to the carpenter, he pointed out something in my drawings that the permit guys missed so far.
I am going to deck out my 20x20 courtyard, thus giving me a 400 sq ft addition without the need for footing, foundation, or walls!
The drawings I made for the roof is fine, basically a pyramid because the whole house is a hip roof, and when it gets tied in it won't look out of place at all. Skylight on each facet.
The question is in the floor....
20' is too far to span with traditional lumber. It's against code my guy tells me.
So, we asked about the I -joists. Problem is with that span they want it to be basically 2x12" and they cost a LOT!
LVL's were even more, and were going to bump the budget a good bit. They also would still have a bit of flex in the middle which I do NOT want.
So, idea number 3 was to put a steel across.
However, the rest of the house rests on that foundation as well, and have 2x10" floor joists, which means if I put a steel across the middle, across the full 20', then I would need to have smaller than 2x10's on top of the steel.
Not only that, but the steel company informs me that I would need to go to a 10" tall I beam, and even if I sank into the block foundation a bit, I can't sink it far enough because I will be in the concrete "floor" of the courtyard and thus the I beam would be underground and I would need to rip all the concrete out which is really unnecessary (hopefully).
The last idea I had was to make a pier in the middle of the courtyard to bridge 2 smaller steels, 8" tall, which allows me to drop it 4" into the block and not hit the concrete and if I have my measurements correct I could fit 2x8's on top of it and cross to the sides. I don't think it would fit a top plate on the I beam.
I will TRY to create a picture to illustrate but I am outta ideas!
The pier will be a royal PITA because it means removing concrete, digging 4' down inside the center of my house, and pouring concrete, then building block up etc.

 

[Speedling]

 

[veedubtek]

lol. Sorry, I got nothing on this.

 

[Mainah]

Perhaps expose the steel I beam and box it with wood turning it into a design feature. That is provided not already exposed.

 

[Speedling]

Perhaps expose the steel I beam and box it with wood turning it into a design feature. That is provided not already exposed.

The I beam would be to support the joists half way across the 20' span because typical lumber isn't allowed due to deflection for that span. Saggy floors

 

[BBottoms]

If you don't have enough height to put the joists on top of the steel then you can do something like this. This is from a Google search and appears to be referencing Simpson Strong Tie brand connectors. USP Connectors/Mitek (I'm a former employee) would another possible supplier:

 

[Speedling]

If you don't have enough height to put the joists on top of the steel then you can do something like this. This is from a Google search and appears to be referencing Simpson Strong Tie brand connectors. USP Connectors/Mitek (I'm a former employee) would another possible supplier:

Nice! So then I can get the 10" tall beam that I need, sit it right on top of the foundation without needing to cut into my block, then use those hangers to span the floor joists. The height should be exactly the same assuming the mason sets the I beam in the right place (that's me)
But now, the question is, how do I get that monster beam in there? 800+ lbs of steel!
I also need to see if my local shops supply these hangers and if I will need some sort of specs for the permit. Permit guys have been picky for this project.

 

[BBottoms]

The link below is a PDF with part numbers, specs and sizes for this series of hanger. Home Depot sells the Simpson brand and can likely order them if they don't have them. Most building supply places should be able to get them for you.

http://embed.widencdn.net/pdf/plus/ssttoolbox/fzfjdpcjnq/C-C-2017-p147-149.pdf

 

[Speedling]

The 20' long 800 lb i beam i think will need to be manhandled off my big truck, or maybe my friend's flatbed trailer, walked into the front door, down a step on one end, and then we can drag it into place. I have used wheeled carts for 4-500 lb hearth stones and we were able, but the front door step and the step into the courtyard have me worried. 4 guys can't take 200 lbs each. This will be fun!
Permit first!

 

[Ilmmct]

@Speedling how about treaded rods, clevis pins and turnbuckles? I think you are trying to deal with something that happened to me when building an accessory structure a few years ago.

I used this company:

http://www.clevelandcityforge.com/custom-capabilities/

They custom made a set of stainless steel threaded rods and then matched SS turnbuckles and clevis attachments to provide the LOAD requirements of my building inspector.

Take a look at Houzz they have lots on nice looking pictures of homes, mancaves etc that show rods and turnbuckles as an attractive method of gaining LOAD support for your potential addition. I am not an engineering minded guy, so can’t speak of the LOAD gains and benefits.

My situation was my building was finished and the inspector on one of my final inspections failed the structure with some mombo jumbo about lateral stability (I live in an area with high coastal winds). So I went about finding a somewhat last minute solution that would appease both my wife’s design taste and the building inspector.

I did not want massive beams spanning 16’, so the steel rods and turnbuckles was a workable compromise.

 

[Speedling]

@Speedling how about treaded rods, clevis pins and turnbuckles? I think you are trying to deal with something that happened to me when building an accessory structure a few years ago.

I used this company:

http://www.clevelandcityforge.com/custom-capabilities/

They custom made a set of stainless steel threaded rods and then matched SS turnbuckles and clevis attachments to provide the LOAD requirements of my building inspector.

Take a look at Houzz they have lots on nice looking pictures of homes, mancaves etc that show rods and turnbuckles as an attractive method of gaining LOAD support for your potential addition. I am not an engineering minded guy, so can’t speak of the LOAD gains and benefits.

My situation was my building was finished and the inspector on one of my final inspections failed the structure with some mombo jumbo about lateral stability (I live in an area with high coastal winds). So I went about finding a somewhat last minute solution that would appease both my wife’s design taste and the building inspector.

I did not want massive beams spanning 16’, so the steel rods and turnbuckles was a workable compromise.

Houzz makes stuff look so awesome! I won't need it for the floor unless i was to go from about 5 foot in rither side up to a supporting column of sorts which would cause the cables to be coming through the floor. They didn't say anything about the lateral loads of the roof, but this will certainly be in mind for if it comes up!
My carpenter laughs at me because i am essentially going to have a 33' x 40' open concept room with kitchen, dining room, and "great room"!
I was like yeah, but my family and my wifes family it's not unheard of to have over 100 family members come for holidays. He didn't think i was any less crazy...

 

[Ilmmct]

@Speedling good luck with the project. Glad you are doing better, from the relatively recent health scare you gave the JB brotherhood.

 

[seanmclean]

The 20' long 800 lb i beam i think will need to be manhandled off my big truck, or maybe my friend's flatbed trailer, walked into the front door, down a step on one end, and then we can drag it into place. I have used wheeled carts for 4-500 lb hearth stones and we were able, but the front door step and the step into the courtyard have me worried. 4 guys can't take 200 lbs each. This will be fun!
Permit first!

4 guys could probably move that. Get moving strap harnesses like this, but instead of tying to each other, loop under the beam.

 

[Speedling]

@Speedling good luck with the project. Glad you are doing better, from the relatively recent health scare you gave the JB brotherhood.

It lives with me every day yet just as a reminder how fragile everything really is!

 

[Speedling]

Permit submitted. Local supplier had the simson hangers.
Had to draw up the beam with the hangers quick and how it all sat but so far so good!
They will call me with any questions and should be 3-5 days

 

[Speedling]

4 guys could probably move that. Get moving strap harnesses like this, but instead of tying to each other, loop under the beam.

My cousins at work got volunteered by my uncle today, lol
We have done stone hearths but usually we have a tractor to get it off the truck and to the house

 

[Bruce]

Can you reduce the spacing between the 2x10s or double them up so that they carry a lighter load for the full distance?

 

[zipper]

Looks like you have it figured out. I dont know anything about your "codes" there. And if I see your plan correctly, I might have built a few beams from P.T. 2×6's and placed them on the concrete at the butt or overlap of the joists and others at midpoint of the span to eliminate any sag/spring in a 16' floor joist. Like I said, not familar with what you can or cannot do. But in theory would look like this.
Just referencing you sketch.

 

[justason]

Nice! So then I can get the 10" tall beam that I need, sit it right on top of the foundation without needing to cut into my block, then use those hangers to span the floor joists. The height should be exactly the same assuming the mason sets the I beam in the right place (that's me)
But now, the question is, how do I get that monster beam in there? 800+ lbs of steel!
I also need to see if my local shops supply these hangers and if I will need some sort of specs for the permit. Permit guys have been picky for this project.

I did a recent truss installation. I hired a rigging company to come out. It was actually a welding company that had a decent size crane. guy charge be $90/hour, he was about 30 mins away.

 

[Speedling]

Can you reduce the spacing between the 2x10s or double them up so that they carry a lighter load for the full distance?

Nope, and if i went to I joists, lvls or lam beams they need to be 12" tall which won't work.