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Reliability of new voting machines questioned-Associated Press

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Enduro900

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This is not a bash or political message......Please do not respond, please just read the article and make up your own mind whether our vote in our democracy is at risk from foreign or domestic threats using electronic machines to vote. No matter how you voted, this information should concern us all. The article about the risk was written on February, 24, 2020.....Vote flipping of thousands of votes in just one county actually did in fact occur election night in Northern Michigan, so this really happened. It was caught only because a poll worker thought it seemed odd, so they decided to hand-count ballots, and that is how the “flipped votes” were uncovered:






The machines have been vigorously promoted by the trio of privately held voting equipment vendors that control 88% of the U.S. market and are nearly unregulated at the federal level. They are expected to be used by some 40 million eligible voters more than in the 2018 midterm elections.

Key counties in the crucial swing states of Pennsylvania, Ohio and North Carolina, much of Texas, California’s Los Angeles County and all of Georgia and Delaware have bought ballot-marking machines. So has South Carolina, which will use them in Saturday’s primaries.

Some of the most popular such devices, from Election Systems & Software and Dominion Voting Systems, register votes in bar codes that the human eye can’t decipher. That means skilled hackers could alter outcomes without detection, gaming bar codes while keeping voters’ choices on the human-readable portion of the ballot printout, computer scientists have found.

Northampton County, on Pennsylvania’s eastern edge, became ground zero last November in the debate over ballot-marking devices when its newly purchased ES&S ExpressVote XLs failed in two different ways.

First, a ballot programming error prevented votes cast for one of three candidates in a judge’s race from registering in the bar codes used to count the vote. Only absentee ballot votes registered electronically for the candidate. A manual recount of the paper voting records settled the election.

The other problem: miscalibrated touchscreens on about a third of the county’s 320 machines.

One poll judge called the touchscreens “garbage,” and some voters who registered complaints in emails obtained by The Associated Press in a public records request said their votes were assigned to the wrong candidates — an error known as “vote-flipping.”
 
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captras

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We are now a 3rd world country. All you need to get elected is lots of money, and as many fraudulent votes as you can pay for!
 

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Vote flipping of thousands of votes in just one county actually did in fact occur election night in Northern Michigan, so this really happened. It was caught only because a poll worker thought it seemed odd, so they decided to hand-count ballots, and that is how the “flipped votes” were uncovered:
Link to this story/information?
 

anmut

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Post 2020, I don't think our electronic voting will ever be trusted by either side, and will always be "fraudulent" by the party that lost.
 

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Link to this story/information?
Take your pick:







 

Enduro900

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Post 2020, I don't think our electronic voting will ever be trusted by either side, and will always be "fraudulent" by the party that lost.
Thinking it’s fraudulent, and actually seeing fraud happen is two separate things.

If you read the article by the AP in February, these machines print out the name of the candidate you wanted, but the barcode is used to actually count your vote, and a human can’t decipher the barcode to tell if it is in fact correct.....for thousands of voters in just one county in michigan, it wasn’t......

And I am not talking about who won and who lost this time, I provided information that these machines are capable of flipping votes, confirmed in PA in past elections, and confirmed in MI this election (there may be more, these machines are in over half of the michigan counties, and many other states as well....is anyone else checking this out other than a couple of people that just so happened to think something must be wrong in one county?

Pause for a moment that this is bigger than any one party.....How about someone like china flipping votes in a future election????

I am not a republican, I am not a Democrat, I am a very concerned citizen right now that does want my voice heard, that does want my vote to count, and frankly I want all of yours to count too, no matter who you voted for this year or in the future....
 
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Matt Phillips

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I've traveled for work for years and can never tell if I'll be home on Election Day or not - so I vote absentee (or by mail as it's now called). Its the best way in my opinion as you can take your time to fill out your ballot on your kitchen table. Once submitted, there's paper copy that is easily read (even by hand if needed) for the record.
 

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I've traveled for work for years and can never tell if I'll be home on Election Day or not - so I vote absentee (or by mail as it's now called). Its the best way in my opinion as you can take your time to fill out your ballot on your kitchen table. Once submitted, there's paper copy that is easily read (even by hand if needed) for the record.
I happen to live in Michigan, and my polling station did not use the system in question. Over half of the total counties in michigan did use the system in question though, as did a multitude of other states.

So Even in each state, there is no uniform process....I am glad you have confidence your vote was counted, and credited the way you intended.

There is now clear evidence this may not be the case for many (thousands confirmed) people, and if/when your area moves to this type of voting, if things are not changed, yours very well might not either.

If you read the articles, people were given a paper copy as record as well, confirming their vote. Except next to the candidate name there is a barcode, which is actually what is read, and counted. In the case of thousands of voters, the barcode was for the other candidate.....so their vote was recorded for the other candidate.....
 

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We build technology around the time of Dwight Eisenhower and really used more after Cuban missle crisis called the nuclear football for the president to authorize the release of World War 3 nuclear bombs from anywhere in the world but we can't accurately capture a vote? Its all about how important it is or some just don't want it solved. The whole thing is really unbelievable no matter your party choice.
 

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Thinking it’s fraudulent, and actually seeing fraud happen is two separate things.

If you read the article by the AP in February, these machines print out the name of the candidate you wanted, but the barcode is used to actually count your vote, and a human can’t decipher the barcode to tell if it is in fact correct.....for thousands of voters in just one county in michigan, it wasn’t......

And I am not talking about who won and who lost this time, I provided information that these machines are capable of flipping votes, confirmed in PA in past elections, and confirmed in MI this election (there may be more, these machines are in over half of the michigan counties, and many other states as well....is anyone else checking this out other than a couple of people that just so happened to think something must be wrong in one county?

Pause for a moment that this is bigger than any one party.....How about someone like china flipping votes in a future election????

I am not a republican, I am not a Democrat, I am a very concerned citizen right now that does want my voice heard, that does want my vote to count, and frankly I want all of yours to count too, no matter who you voted for this year or in the future....
I guess if this is the eye-opening point for many people, then it's good. Those of us that have followed this tech for years are saying "no shit, of course fraud will/is happening." As you stated, this goes way beyond the party lines. Why fight a cold/hot war with your enemies when you can get them to devour themselves and install the leader you want.
 

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This is not a bash or political message......Please do not respond, please just read the article and make up your own mind whether our vote in our democracy is at risk from foreign or domestic threats using electronic machines to vote. No matter how you voted, this information should concern us all. The article about the risk was written on February, 24, 2020.....Vote flipping of thousands of votes in just one county actually did in fact occur election night in Northern Michigan, so this really happened. It was caught only because a poll worker thought it seemed odd, so they decided to hand-count ballots, and that is how the “flipped votes” were uncovered:






The machines have been vigorously promoted by the trio of privately held voting equipment vendors that control 88% of the U.S. market and are nearly unregulated at the federal level. They are expected to be used by some 40 million eligible voters more than in the 2018 midterm elections.

Key counties in the crucial swing states of Pennsylvania, Ohio and North Carolina, much of Texas, California’s Los Angeles County and all of Georgia and Delaware have bought ballot-marking machines. So has South Carolina, which will use them in Saturday’s primaries.

Some of the most popular such devices, from Election Systems & Software and Dominion Voting Systems, register votes in bar codes that the human eye can’t decipher. That means skilled hackers could alter outcomes without detection, gaming bar codes while keeping voters’ choices on the human-readable portion of the ballot printout, computer scientists have found.

Northampton County, on Pennsylvania’s eastern edge, became ground zero last November in the debate over ballot-marking devices when its newly purchased ES&S ExpressVote XLs failed in two different ways.

First, a ballot programming error prevented votes cast for one of three candidates in a judge’s race from registering in the bar codes used to count the vote. Only absentee ballot votes registered electronically for the candidate. A manual recount of the paper voting records settled the election.

The other problem: miscalibrated touchscreens on about a third of the county’s 320 machines.

One poll judge called the touchscreens “garbage,” and some voters who registered complaints in emails obtained by The Associated Press in a public records request said their votes were assigned to the wrong candidates — an error known as “vote-flipping.”
Doesn't this really just prove that Biden won? Trump won easily the "in-person" vote (the people using the machines.) If votes were being flipped, they were being flipped from Biden to Trump it would seem like? On the flip side, Biden won the mail in vote and none of those people used the machines.
 

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It is important to note that that this article was written 8 months ago.
 

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It is important to note that that this article was written 8 months ago.
No I know....but just following the "theory" of vote-flipping and that it happened on the machines (which trump won anyway) and not on the mail in (which biden won).
 

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It is important to note that that this article was written 8 months ago.
Very important....and nothing was done apparently makes it even more improtant.....

Did you miss the next entry I had with multiple articles from multiply sources confirming thousands of votes flipped in Michigan, not 8 months ago....a few days ago???
 

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Very important....and nothing was done apparently makes it even more improtant.....

Did you miss the next entry I had with multiple articles from multiply sources confirming thousands of votes flipped in Michigan, not 8 months ago....a few days ago???
Re: the michigan story.....
I think this is exactly why we have election officials (from both parties) at every location that counts ballots, and officials that know their counties well. It's exactly why all of these results are "unofficial" until they have been certified. If anything, it just proves that the system is working as it should....
Something was wrong, someone noticed, it was corrected...

I'm not sure I would go so far as to call this "fraud" if the story is actually accurate that someone forgot to update the software. (which I found in another article by googling that county you referenced in your article)
 

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Doesn't this really just prove that Biden won? Trump won easily the "in-person" vote (the people using the machines.) If votes were being flipped, they were being flipped from Biden to Trump it would seem like? On the flip side, Biden won the mail in vote and none of those people used the machines.
At the presidential level, yes, your logic holds.

Lots of other races on those ballots though that might not hold true on that same premise.
 

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Doesn't this really just prove that Biden won? Trump won easily the "in-person" vote (the people using the machines.) If votes were being flipped, they were being flipped from Biden to Trump it would seem like? On the flip side, Biden won the mail in vote and none of those people used the machines.
Please follow the rules about the thread......and the site.

No politics.......

If you have NO concern about this systems being used to count votes all across the country please stick to the other topics......my concern is not who won last tuesday, my concern is there is documented evidence in multiple elections now that these machines flip votes...period.

The AP confirmed in PA from earlier elections, multiple sources confirmed thousands were flipped in Michigan, in just one county.....

If any person or persons here can do it, any country can also......that is I want people to think about, and frankly it is time something is done.

Fraud in elections is not in question...no one anywhere ever says there is no election fraud.....we are just always told it will not amount to any difference.....

These “confirned” cases prove that in one little county, thousands of votes can be flipped by someone......then why couldnt one of our enemies????

Again, as clear as I can, I did not post this to start a fight about “d” vs “r”, I posted this to start a discussion that we need investigate these systems further, a true investigation about who these companies are, and why there is no oversight of these systems that we are supposed to trust to be accurate and secure....
 

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Very important....and nothing was done apparently makes it even more improtant.....

Did you miss the next entry I had with multiple articles from multiply sources confirming thousands of votes flipped in Michigan, not 8 months ago....a few days ago???
I have read about counting issues that were corrected. I see that as a positive sign that audits are occurring and working.

My day job is working with data that becomes evidence in court. It is normal to have issues in data sets of this size especially with so many points of entry.

Have you read any reports from the Federal Election Commission on past elections? If not you should.
 

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Please follow the rules about the thread......and the site.

No politics.......

If you have NO concern about this systems being used to count votes all across the country please stick to the other topics......my concern is not who won last tuesday, my concern is there is documented evidence in multiple elections now that these machines flip votes...period.

The AP confirmed in PA from earlier elections, multiple sources confirmed thousands were flipped in Michigan, in just one county.....

If any person or persons here can do it, any country can also......that is I want people to think about, and frankly it is time something is done.

Fraud in elections is not in question...no one anywhere ever says there is no election fraud.....we are just always told it will not amount to any difference.....

These “confirned” cases prove that in one little county, thousands of votes can be flipped by someone......then why couldnt one of our enemies????

Again, as clear as I can, I did not post this to start a fight about “d” vs “r”, I posted this to start a discussion that we need investigate these systems further, a true investigation about who these companies are, and why there is no oversight of these systems that we are supposed to trust to be accurate and secure....
Is there legislation that states voting cannot be online? I know that our HOA elections MUST be in person, and that is FL state legislature.

I definitely agree that the voting systems in this country could be improved, not even necessarily from a security standpoint although that certainly is a good reason. It is archaic that we should have people standing in line for hours upon hours to vote which in and of itself could be considered voter suppression. Can some sort of reliable system not be developed online? We have banking, stock markets, insurance, health care, all of these major industries with extremely secure online presences. You could log back in at any time and look up your votes, you'd know it was counted, and unless the system is keeping 2 records (one of your actual vote, and one that it's actually counting) then you could be confident that none of the barcode type flipping is taking place.

I would be surprised if some state wasn't already looking at it, and maybe the presidential election is not the place to roll it out but I could see it coming in the near future.
 
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