School me on MRI dry sump oil system

[betterwhenitswetter]

Hello internet family, does anyone have a Yamaha MRI dry sump oil schematic showing the parts and oil flow and direction, I have combed over the parts diagrams to try and chart my way through the system.


My current issue:
The dry sump oil tank fills to the very top in just a few short secs... (after I have corrected it 3 oil changes) it seems as if the suction pump/side works but the pressure pump/side is blocked or malfunctioned and can't get the oil to the engine, I appears everything is done via 1 pump. anyone see anything like this?

Note, the oil is very aerated, and can create foam.

I have tried to prime it with spark plugs out using the starter to turn the engine over, no luck. again once I start it fills the oil tank full and fast if the cap is on it fills the PCV system and starts to force oil into the intake box.

Thanks in advance.

 

[itsdgm]

I don't have a much better idea of the directional flow of oil in the engine.

However, does the oil smell like fuel at all? Are you sure that you don't have a stuck fuel injector that is putting fuel into the oil and causing the level to rise and then froth up?

Just something that came to mind. Hope you figure out your issue soon.

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

I don't have a much better idea of the directional flow of oil in the engine.

However, does the oil smell like fuel at all? Are you sure that you don't have a stuck fuel injector that is putting fuel into the oil and causing the level to rise and then froth up?

Just something that came to mind. Hope you figure out your issue soon.

Hey Dennis,
I found the issue with my intermit injector (water in cylinder 3 thread, which was fuel) my brother removed the flush hose cap and rode it all day, I found water in the ECU box, it required me to replace the entire ECU, & wiring harness, Relay, float switch and seal/s and some other parts & fuel injectors for good measure. $2,600 in parts so far.

Don't leave that Flush cap off, I noticed traces of water on the seat and ECU box my orginal guess was correct, water caused a malfunction of the ECU to fire cylinder 3 with excessive amounts of fuel.

Now all water logged parts replaced, the engine fires up fine, but I can only run the engine for a few secs before the oil fills the dry sump tank/cooler tank as Yamaha refers to it.

I do have a little fuel smell, even after 3 oil changes appears to less and less, I know why we can't remove all the oil in the MRI, looking at the system there will also be some oil in the lower part of the tank like a sub-section like the 3rd story down best way to put it, under the baffles (not accessible due a large strainer screen), pump & oil separator& hoses will always have some type of oil in them.

Compression in all cylinders is about 160-165 "cold", I can't run the engine long enough to get it warm to check normal compression, all 4 cylinders mist fuel correctly spark is good on all coils.

Pulled oil filter, cut open the oil filter with a pipe cutter nice and clean, no metal shavings very clean inside the filter housing and cap.

No current Yamaha Diag faults, everthing looks good, this must be a mechanical issue/failure of the oil system.

I am unable to tell if the cylinder is cracked or has a hair line crack from the fuel issue, which I have seen before cold cylinder wont show signs of compressions until warm, but seems unlikely.

 

[itsdgm]

I'm pretty sure that There is also oil down in the pan as well that can't be pulled out during an oil change, the parts diagram shown a breather/oil seperator that returns to the top of the oil tank. I wonder if there's some water or fuel in there that is being pumped back into the tank. I really don't have any first hand knowledge on this other than frothing in oil would usually be either fuel or water contamination.

Have you been able to run the boat yet since you've replaced the Ecu & changed the oil?

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

I'm pretty sure that There is also oil down in the pan as well that can't be pulled out during an oil change, the parts diagram shown a breather/oil seperator that returns to the top of the oil tank. I wonder if there's some water or fuel in there that is being pumped back into the tank. I really don't have any first hand knowledge on this other than frothing in oil would usually be either fuel or water contamination.

Have you been able to run the boat yet since you've replaced the Ecu & changed the oil?

sorry I went back and editing some additional info... see post 3

 

[Bruce]

Wow, that is terrible!

How did water get from the flush port to the ECU?

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

Wow, that is terrible!

How did water get from the flush port to the ECU?

Bruce I am guessing water got forced up the flush port from by pressure from the pump via the cooling hoses I know for a fact the ski was never rolled or took on that much water.

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

Ok since I am GM guru and product lover, I been studying the LS7,LS9, LT1/LT4 dry sump oil system/s. It appears the pressure side is faulty (there are 2 sides/parts to the pump, suction/pressure). the suction side seems fine, the pressure side is where I believe the issue is.

I believe its the pressure side b/c the oil cooler/tank is max full so oil is not making it to engine, and since its aerated its sucking air from suction side as there is no more oil to pull from the suction side.

I check in Yamaha Diag... there is NO oil pressure senor, so is there a way to check it via gauge/physical hook up?

 

[bronze_10]

Random thought... have u pulled the oil filter and checked to make sure it's not plugged up or contaminated? Also with the filter off can u turn over the engine with the lanyard out and see if oil comes out where the filter goes? It would be messey but it may give u additional data to work with.

 

[Big Shasta]

Here's the pump, looks like there is only one and it's gear driven....a chain off the cam maybe?

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Yamaha/Boat/2008/AR230 HIGH OUTPUT - SXT1100AG/OIL PUMP/parts.html

I can't see you not having an issue with extra volume of liquid. There is only one pump. The extra volume is pushed up to the cooler and then pressurized and pull for lubrication.
Seems like it has to be fuel or water adding extra volume to the oil. Is your oil light on when you run the engine? I think taking the filter off is a good idea. it will be messy but it will tell you if oil is making it to the bottom of the engine.

My Yamaha motorcycles had a port on them for a gauge to be hooked up. I added one that monitored the pressure all the time. I bet there is one somewhere on these engines.

Do you have a service manual? This is from a 2007 but I bet it's the same for the oil system. If you don't have it, I'm sure I could put it on a google drive or something.

There is a check valve but I'm sure that keeps the oil up in the cooler, it failing would probably drain the cooler into the engine.

 

[AZDANSX230HO]

Ok since I am GM guru and product lover, I been studying the LS7,LS9, LT1/LT4 dry sump oil system/s. It appears the pressure side is faulty (there are 2 sides/parts to the pump, suction/pressure). the suction side seems fine, the pressure side is where I believe the issue is.

I believe its the pressure side b/c the oil cooler/tank is max full so oil is not making it to engine, and since its aerated its sucking air from suction side as there is no more oil to pull from the suction side.

I check in Yamaha Diag... there is NO oil pressure senor, so is there a way to check it via gauge/physical hook up?

Don't get me started on LS7's, my Father in Law and I both had Z06's with prematurely worn out valve guides, there is a class action suit against GM right now for this issue.

Hope you figure out the issue with your engine.

 

[itsdgm]

Im pretty sure there's an oil psi reading on the YDS screen for oil pressure. I'm going from memory and don't specifically remember the oil psi reading, but there are several sensor readings that are "live" readouts.

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

Random thought... have u pulled the oil filter and checked to make sure it's not plugged up or contaminated? Also with the filter off can u turn over the engine with the lanyard out and see if oil comes out where the filter goes? It would be messey but it may give u additional data to work with.

Yes, its in post # 3, its clean.

Here's the pump, looks like there is only one and it's gear driven....a chain off the cam maybe?

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Yamaha/Boat/2008/AR230 HIGH OUTPUT - SXT1100AG/OIL PUMP/parts.html

I can't see you not having an issue with extra volume of liquid. There is only one pump. The extra volume is pushed up to the cooler and then pressurized and pull for lubrication.
Seems like it has to be fuel or water adding extra volume to the oil. Is your oil light on when you run the engine? I think taking the filter off is a good idea. it will be messy but it will tell you if oil is making it to the bottom of the engine.

My Yamaha motorcycles had a port on them for a gauge to be hooked up. I added one that monitored the pressure all the time. I bet there is one somewhere on these engines.

Do you have a service manual? This is from a 2007 but I bet it's the same for the oil system. If you don't have it, I'm sure I could put it on a google drive or something.

There is a check valve but I'm sure that keeps the oil up in the cooler, it failing would probably drain the cooler into the engine.

View attachment 46496

This is my 2007 Yamaha FXHO waverunner, not my boat thankfully!
YES PLEASE SEND ME THE SERVICE MANUAL, email, internet, or I can pay you for info....

The fluid can't be water I don't have water hooked up (trust me I have pulled like 4 samples and changed the oil like 5 times now water in the oil is highly visible ), No fuel either, now that the injectors work as designed they can only mist fuel, the fuel smell must be left over. The extra fluid is b/c the suction side is pulling oil into the tank/cooler tank. but the oil cant get to the engine.

The pump is 1 unit but has 2 sides, suction side (sometimes there is 2 suction pumps/sides ) & pressure side you can see in the pic you sent me the suction rotors are parts # 9 & #10 the rotor assy...., I can see the 2 different pump sides in your pic...

I thought of taking the filter off to check flow. (I believe if I took off the filter and turned the engine over I would get some oil but not sure how to check pressure and flow which is why the tank is get more oil into the tank than it can pump back to the engine.)

The oil pump is gear driven off the crankshaft, you can see in the parts diagrams.

My current best guess is the excessive fuel in the oil from the original problem ate up an o-ring for the pressure side.

Don't get me started on LS7's, my Father in Law and I both had Z06's with prematurely worn out valve guides, there is a class action suit against GM right now for this issue.

Hope you figure out the issue with your engine.

LOL, I was studying GM's Dry Sump Oil System to help me figure out the Yamaha system. I believe it was GM's first mass produced dry sump oil system, no system works 100% perfect.

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

Im pretty sure there's an oil psi reading on the YDS screen for oil pressure. I'm going from memory and don't specifically remember the oil psi reading, but there are several sensor readings that are "live" readouts.

Dennis there is only a oil level switch on/off that's it, I checked at like 1 am in this morning!

 

[itsdgm]

Dennis there is only a oil level switch on/off that's it, I checked at like 1am in the morning!

Bummer. Hopefully you'll figure it out soon.

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

Bummer. Hopefully you'll figure it out soon.

Yeah, thanks Dennis. Keep the ideas coming it really does help, well helps me at least I do have a very mechanical mind.

 

[Scottintexas]

do you have a YDS ? I can lend you mine if you don't,

You can drain all the oil the bolt is just hard to get to, #3 on his diagram,
https://jetboaters.net/threads/oil-change-on-mr-1-how-to-perform-a-complete-drain.3805/

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

do you have a YDS ? I can lend you mine if you don't,

You can drain all the oil the bolt is just hard to get to, #3 on his diagram,
https://jetboaters.net/threads/oil-change-on-mr-1-how-to-perform-a-complete-drain.3805/

Hey Scott, I remember you helped me 5 years ago when I got my boat, I remember you came over to my house with your son as well (I believe it was after your son's cub scout meeting ), you pulled the hours since I just bought it used and had no idea..., it showed 24 hours on it.

Shortly after that I got online and bought the kit, I do have Yamaha Diag tool.

Thanks for the link, the gent... took some good pics for sure, I saw the drain plug on the parts diag... like I said combed over the parts looking for info... LOL. I will drain the system a final time and pull the pump off, Yamaha doesn't sell the repair kits, I have to buy the entire pump at this point well at least from Yamaha sports plaza that's what it shows. I didn't see a repair kit for the pump.

 

[bronze_10]

See what happens if u turn it over without starting it and see if the oil comes out where the filter goes...

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

See what happens if u turn it over without starting it and see if the oil comes out where the filter goes...

I'll try it, before I drain the oil system.