Trim Tabs - options - wake surfing (and cruising)

[swatski]

I am trying to decide which way to go.
It is a "must do" mod in my mind, so that's not an issue. As for "why?", I think @1948Isaac put it best (cracks me up):

today is been choppy out on the gulf and i have to say i dont know why i end up putting a sound system before putting tabs on my boat.... next boat i get i will put tabs before i even put the registration numbers... the dont just make a bit of a difference, they make a huge.difference expecially in choppy water... this boat went from jumping to smooth as soones i put the taps down the boat just goes straight and smooth... my boat my windshield and my back would of been in way better conditions if i would of install them since i bought this boat. This taps have a very nice future also, as soonest i shut off the.engines they retract to the up position, saving you from back up your boat or forgeting putting them in the up psition and damaging them... all i can say is that if you own an ar240, get them install , it will save your marragie if you take your wife out in a choppy day or to bimini in rought weather..... when i put them all the way down i lose around 6 to 7 miles for a top speed of 42 miles. If i have them half way down (best possition) you end up losing about 3 miles for a top speed of 46 miles... i have put them in the down position when i am doing 48 miles, and i havent have any problems so far.

Bruce, having tabs sould be mandatory if anyone wants to go to bimini as part of the group...lol. yeah i agree with you, my boat spray alot to the sides but nothing inside. I wasn't expecting the tabs to make such a huge difference as they did.. i am glad i install them... so far they are worth every dollar

@Bruce and others, wonder if you have an opinion on the new Bolt system from Bennett? (those are electric, not hydraulic like the traditional Bennett systems)
http://www.bennetttrimtabs.com/bolt/
Those look pretty awesome (and are BENNETT!) but must say I like the real hinged edge, as in @Bruce's Lectrotabs, not the lip-style. But it probably doesn't matter, but it may in our boats where the actuator install is kind of backwards. IDK...
https://jetboaters.net/threads/lectrotab-trim-tabs.71/

https://jetboaters.net/threads/lectrotab-offering-for-yamaha-boats.2074/

The only install I know of in the new hull 240s is @1948Isaac w/Lencos:
https://jetboaters.net/threads/miami-to-exumas.10013/page-9#post-186428

I kind of want Lectrotabs "Customs" with 30o tapered edges, but only see them in 9" length. I think I would want 12x12 maybe bigger. But...
http://www.lectrotab.com/images/mediaLibrary/products/lectrotab_display-2-web.jpg

The other issue is travel/stroke. I think all of those (Lectrotab, Lencos, and new Bolts are 2 1/4 ", but Lencos offer an actuator (102) for airboats that travels over 4". Would that be a good idea? I really like how these look:
http://www.lencomarine.com/index.php/products/trim-tabs/airboat

In due course, these tabs will be used to list the boat loaded with monstrous amount of ballast, so the actuators need to be attached close to tabs' edge for strength/leverage.

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[Bruce]

@swatski, email Dan and Lectrotab and have them cost out exactly what you want. The Bennett Bolts do not appear to be any less expensive than Lectrotab so why not get a custom product from a company that has huge experience building custom tabs.

I will forward some or my emails with Lectrotab.

 

[swatski]

@swatski, email Dan and Lectrotab and have them cost out exactly what you want. The Bennett Bolts do not appear to be any less expensive than Lectrotab so why not get a custom product from a company that has huge experience building custom tabs.

I will forward some or my emails with Lectrotab.

When you built yours, did you send them your cute cardboard cutouts, or just dimensions?
I think I really want to mock it, and go as big as I can.

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[Bruce]

When you built yours, did you send them your cute cardboard cutouts, or just dimensions?
I think I really want to mock it, and go as big as I can.

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I sent the dimensions and pictures. I just forwarded the email to your work email.

 

[Andy S]

I'm watching this closely as I will be added tabs to my Cobalt this Feb or Mar. It is a must now that @1948Isaac has them on his boat and I need to be able to keep with him.

 

[swatski]

I sent the dimensions and pictures. I just forwarded the email to your work email.

Awesome, thank you very much! The Lectrotab guys seem to have pretty awesome attitude to custom work! that is VERY encouraging.

I have wanted to go with Lectrotabs all along, but Bennett w/ the new electric tabs threw me off - I had to look into it. Those look nice and quality is going to be first class, no doubt about it.
Then with Lencos, @1948Isaac already blazed the trail, so we know the install works. And I'm still intrigued by the long-travel/stroke actuators, as that may be very useful for a surfing setup. I know that some 20deg angle of deflection is max recommended for just regular trim. But wanting to mount close to the edge for strength, I figure long stroke could come in very handy.


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[swatski]

I really do not want to overthink it, either. I don't think side tabs AKA Surf Gate would work very well on our boats, @jcyamaharider has pretty much shown that. Other than that the rest is just all trim tabs, different flavors of trim tabs.

The newest and greatest is the WaveMakers' "Wave Control", which is Go Surf Assist. Those tabs are pretty big and don't deflect too much (angle-wise), but also have 'secondary' tab ("thruster"). Other than that, those really are modified Lencos (at $3,999...): https://www.wakemakers.com/wakesurf-systems
(of course part of the cost is the modified control box and GPS controls etc.)

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[2nazt]

I love the tabs on my new boat! I only use them for list usually but we hit close 2' chop and trimmed down and where running almost 40 through then without much bump.

I'll be interested to see your build though and how it works with the surf.

 

[swatski]

@Bruce do you know what is the length of the actuators in those kits that you have designed? Are those really only 11.5" bolt to pin?
https://jetboaters.net/threads/lectrotab-offering-for-yamaha-boats.2074/

They also offer a short version actuators, only like 10", have you considered those? Stroke length is shorter, too, of course, so that could be an issue. But the advantage would be:
1. somewhat better angle (with our reverse mount orientation)
2. wouldn't obstruct tie down eyes


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[Bruce]

@Bruce do you know what is the length of the actuators in those kits that you have designed? Are those really only 11.5" bolt to pin?

I will measure tomorrow but I used the normal length actuators.

 

[jcyamaharider]

@swatski if you plan on purchasing a Wake Wedge make sure you leave room for it. We use the transom tie down loop and a straight shot over to the ladder bracket.

I wish I didn't sell my last 2016 bar or I would just let you borrow it.

 

[swatski]

@swatski if you plan on purchasing a Wake Wedge make sure you leave room for it. We use the transom tie down loop and a straight shot over to the ladder bracket.

I wish I didn't sell my last 2016 bar or I would just let you borrow it.

That's exactly right. And very kind of you!

Believe me that between the jets, fins, tabs, trolling anchors, wedges, ASPs, ladder, transducer, my L13 cones, satellite antenna, kitchen sink, and a dishwasher that stern is going to be a cluster.

But no, seriously, while this is a bit hard to plan just drawing, I do plan to spend the winter mostly planning it out.

Tabs are hard. If I can get Lectrotab to make me a pair of their high performance (w/adjustable slider) plates with their short actuators we could be in business.

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[007]

I think you are chasing 2 different things here. The standard aftermarket tabs are great for ride quality improvement, but when you get into wave shaping the tabs are often shaped specific to a hull and sometime different side to side. Not trying to discourage you, just pointing out you might work yourself further away from your secondary goal to reach your primary.

 

[Bruce]

I wonder how either a wide tab mounted in the center behind the jets or a pair of smaller tabs to shape the jet thrust and control spray would work. It (they) would not provide traditional trim tab control but might do a great job of cleaning up the wake.

On that line of thinking I really feel that thrust vectoring with a nozzle that can turn 360 degrees would be an amazing upgrade for our boats. I believe it would eliminate the need for trim tabs and just imagine the low speed handling improvement especially if a joystick control was added.

 

[swatski]

I think you are chasing 2 different things here. The standard aftermarket tabs are great for ride quality improvement, but when you get into wave shaping the tabs are often shaped specific to a hull and sometime different side to side. Not trying to discourage you, just pointing out you might work yourself further away from your secondary goal to reach your primary.

@007 You are right. However, the thing is -- there is virtually no data on tabs and surfing behind a Yamaha. If you are not counting @jcyamaharider mention of the Ronix 8.3 and some such. So, we have to start somewhere. I like the adjustability of racing/performance style tabs (those below are Lencos, but just to illustrate):



I think of it more as a starting point for testing the angles and blade shapes.

Now, I am NOT going to invest myself into this too too much until I am convinced that the cavitation/impeller slippage issues can be managed (as I elaborated in other threads). We have got to have the pulling power. I'm cautiously optimistic.

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[swatski]

I wonder how either a wide tab mounted in the center behind the jets or a pair of smaller tabs to shape the jet thrust and control spray would work. It (they) would not provide traditional trim tab control but might do a great job of cleaning up the wake.

On that line of thinking I really feel that thrust vectoring with a nozzle that can turn 360 degrees would be an amazing upgrade for our boats. I believe it would eliminate the need for trim tabs and just imagine the low speed handling improvement especially if a joystick control was added.

Yes, that is where the wake wedge boys are hopefully taking it! A large automated tab that I think @rocknracing is already using would be going in the general direction.

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[jcyamaharider]

I have installed a Wedge on a boat with trim tabs and while they were activated ( in auto mode ) they did exactly what they were supposed to and put the boat even again, which in turn messed up our surf wake. Once we figured out they were on and we got the boat was listed again, then our surf wake was back. Now if you could control the tab manually and put the starboard side down, for surfing on the port side, that may have an advantage.

 

[Bruce]

I have installed a Wedge on a boat with trim tabs and while they were activated ( in auto mode ) they did exactly what they were supposed to and put the boat even again, which in turn messed up our surf wake. Once we figured out they were on and we got the boat was listed again, then our surf wake was back. Now if you could control the tab manually and put the starboard side down, for surfing on the port side, that may have an advantage.

Are you not able to control the tabs individually? Most controllers allow that.

 

[swatski]

I have installed a Wedge on a boat with trim tabs and while they were activated ( in auto mode ) they did exactly what they were supposed to and put the boat even again, which in turn messed up our surf wake. Once we figured out they were on and we got the boat was listed again, then our surf wake was back. Now if you could control the tab manually and put the starboard side down, for surfing on the port side, that may have an advantage.

That is exactly the thinking. To sink the boat with ballast and list it to either side using with tabs while running. Because the boat is going to be weighted down and the stern is not going to pop up those tabs need to be heavy duty. Which with our funky transoms is a big challenge.

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[swatski]

Like @007 pointed out, we are asking for trim tabs here to do two completely different tasks here. One is to help trim the boat on plane And adjust the bow attitude. That is relatively strait forward.
The other, completely different task is to try to list the boat and boost and shape the wake on that side while the boat is in full displacement mode with the stern sunk.
That is why some adjustability, at least of the deflection range/angle but also size and shape is going to be very desirable for testing.

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