Ultimate Custom Gantlin Transom/Swim Deck Ballast Bag Setup (?)

[swatski]

(EDIT: Also check post #7 below for further improvements/intake port upgrade)

Three (3) is better than one (1), right?

AIM:
To fill the large custom Transom Bag (TB) faster (FatSac with small 3/4" diameter ports) - in order to match fast filling times of Center Locker (CL) bag (w/1" ports).

APPROACH:
Re-route/cannibalize integrated ballast plumbing to fill TB through three (3) ports using three (3) reversible pumps / three (3) intakes, leaving CL plumbed as is (w/one dedicated pump/intake)

BACKGROUND:
My Center Locker (CL) and Rear Locker (RL) bags are all SUMO w/1" ports and those fill fast.
The FatSac Transom Bag (TB) is great but for it's large size (~900lbs) its 3/4" diameter ports are just not ideal.
We currently typically only fill TB and CL for our wake surfing sessions, so the two RL bags do not get much use.
Our custom WakeMaker system operates with 4 independent reversible pumps drawing form 4 independent intakes.
Pumps are installed in wet storage lockers int eh transom, and serve also as valves; since there are no other valves/splitters etc., the RL and CL bags fill fast (1" diameter throughput except the pump itself) but the TL bag lags behind (a lot).

Here is the reworked TB fill system:
(green arrow points the original fill/drain port, the red arrows are the additional ports - 3 pumps/intake filling one bag! The forth port is an Air Vent)


Center Locker (CL) - no changes:



For the record - here are the intakes (over the Articulating Keel - rudder) - one each to CL, RLs, and one AUX (auxiliary - to TB):




And pumps (in wet storage compartments, two on each side - not yet fully installed/wired in the pic)



TB is stored in the PORT side wet locker:


Additional plumbing lines are int eh STRBD locker:


Pull those out and set the bag/plumbing lines for fill-up, less than a minute:




Start filling the TB and the CL bags (engines ON in "No Wake 3" ~2,000 RPM to keep the voltage up at ~14v):


CL is now slower than TB!!
(about 1/2 full)


The TB is full!



We are done setting up to surf in UNDER 5MIN!!!






Who needs RAMFILL??!! lol

To drain, I just disconnect the two bottom Quick Connect ports of the TB and let it run, use CL pump to drain - all while heading back to the docks.

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[J-RAD]

Nice work! I need to do something to cut down the film time of ther transom bag. I've considered a wye fitting and pair of ball valves off my starboard under seat ballast plumbing to be able to utilize it for filling the transom bag. Though I may have to sort to a 4th dedicated pump as well. Ugh!

 

[swatski]

Nice work! I need to do something to cut down the film time of ther transom bag. I've considered a wye fitting and pair of ball valves off my starboard under seat ballast plumbing to be able to utilize it for filling the transom bag. Though I may have to sort to a 4th dedicated pump as well. Ugh!

This is a tough one! I've waited and waited before re-routing everything, wouldn't take me too too long to go back but I just hate crawling in those compartments. Watching that bag just blow up in front of my eyes - it was worth it!
(EDIT: not having any valves or diverters really speeds things up, too.)

For us it is a matter of to surf or not to surf! We usually have two hours or so max, door to door, so I need a very fast setup or it's just not worth it.

I wish the TB was still bigger and it certainly would be nice to have larger ports, for example like the SUMOs.

Maybe version 2.0 Gatlin Custom Transom Bag, @jcyamaharider ?

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[Gym]

I don't do watersports (bad knees) but I like your engineering @swatski

 

[J-RAD]

@swatski, so using your method you're not bothering to fill it with air first correct?

 

[swatski]

@swatski, so using your method you're not bothering to fill it with air first correct?

Yep, with three pumps the bag inflates so fast.
If I empty it with pumps, it vacuum shrivels down like a raisin, so there's not much air in it when filling up, easy to let it escape through the Air Lock.

I finally finished the plumbing remodel, switched to barbed elbow W746 connectors, which is great as those do not pop loose anytime.
No action pics yet, but the plumbing is done!
The two WM hoses and the bag are rolled up into in the STRBD side wet compartment, the other pump/hose into the PORT side. So, I only need to disconnect one elbow connector (top) and then roll those semi-assemblies into the wet lockers.
This is great!






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[swatski]

Finally got to test the new setup - all 3 intakes with barbed elbow connectors - sweet!
Super happy with the results.

The rolling out/unfolding and positioning/tying up the bag takes about a minute with all the connections.

But here is the kicker! It takes this long:


... to go from this (empty, lying on the platform):


To this (completely full):


This is done with all 4 pumps working at the same time with the boat running at "No Wake 2" (about 2,000 RPM) - holding voltage at about 12.5 V. With one pump the voltage jumps to 13.9, for reference, and no pump - 14.3.

Higher RPM leads to air bubbles that are sucked through the intakes. So, it is possible to make the fillup faster but not ideal, especially for the center locker - because of sucking the bubbles/air accumulation. With the transom bag that is not much of an issue though as I can release the air through the Air Vent, anyway.

The biggest improvement for me are the new connectors, those barbed elbows do not disconnect spontaneously like the twist cap style (the grey, quarter turn, which I have come to hate, over time they loosen up and become very finicky).

Here is another shot of the connectors - again, 3 WM Johnson pumps pushing water into this puppy:


After we are done, I can quickly empty with my (reversible) pumps or simply disconnect the intakes and let the bag drain by gravity while riding back, it takes more then about twice as long but it is irrelevant at that point as we are sitting or riding back anyway:


Then, rolling the hoses and the bag up for storage takes about one minute! Done.
With room to spare in the wet compartments!





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[2kwik4u]

That is a significantly nice setup. One of my biggest complaints about surfing over traditional wake sports is the time it takes to setup/teardown the boat. This addresses that concern directly with a well thought out and executed system.

Excellent work sir!

Also, I'm super envious of you guys with the wet storage lockers on the swim platform area. I really wish Yamaha would integrate those into the 190's. Such a useful feature.

 

[swatski]

The team effort here (jetboaters) has been remarkable and as far as I'm concerned it's starting to bear fruit.
Come to think of it, between @J-RAD, @jcyamaharider, @Ridesteady, @Mainah et al. they are helping Mother Yamaha turn these jet boats into surf machines, lol.

Ultimately, as any dedicated wake boat owner will attest, it's the ease of using a particular surf setup that dictates utility and frequency of surf sessions.

For me, at least with this particular boat, the last remaining part of the setup is semi-automation with timers tuned to operate the pumps - from the helm - to not need to run back and forth to swim deck or check inside the ski locker. I would also like to have the transom bag mounted with some kind of place holders or clips.
(yes, a captain running around the deck "like a chicken with its head chopped off" can feel awkward, especially with a boat full of people and if they're new to boating/water sports)

--

 

[2kwik4u]

I love R&D stuff like this.........Finding good R&D in a group setting is often hard to do.

For me, at least with this particular boat, the last remaining part of the setup is semi-automation with timers tuned to operate the pumps - from the helm - to not need to run back and forth to swim deck or check inside the ski locker.

First ideas that come to mind are these:

Switches closer to the location where the filling happens. Perhaps inside the wet storage areas? Just flip them on/off as needed since you'll be right there with the bag anyway?

I don't like timers for things that are filling. Voltage drop, flow rates, and other variable make these less than ideal IMO. Sure they work, but upset conditions can easily throw a wrench in the works. What about a pressure sensor of some sort on the fill lines? You should see the pressure increase with the height of water linearly. Would have to tune the response of the sensor, but is a more direct measurement of fill level than a timer I think. Likewise a current sensor on the pump could sense a "full bag", and would be more indicative of a full condition than running for a set amount of time. This is basically how "auto up/down" windows work. They sense the current to the drive motor, and when it spikes they turn off. The spike is the result of the window reaching it's upper/lower limit and the motor fighting against that. I would expect fill pumps to have a current spike as well once head pressure increases due to a full bag.

 

[Mainah]

Even with just one tsunami juiced pump the air release cap does have back pressure. Cross drilling the single hole in the threads through to the other side helped some. With this multi pump set up you may want to cross drill another set of holes at a 90 degree offset from the first set. I may even try that with just my one pump.

Fill time has not been a big deal with warm water to swim in. When the water cools down enough that we don’t want yo float in it while we wait for the bag to fill I will likely be trying something to improve my fill times as well.

I wonder how well a jet pump squirt gun type device with a manifold to three lines would work for those of us that don’t have e series buckets?

 

[swatski]

Even with just one tsunami juiced pump the air release cap does have back pressure. Cross drilling the single hole in the threads through to the other side helped some. With this multi pump set up you may want to cross drill another set of holes at a 90 degree offset from the first set. I may even try that with just my one pump.

Fill time has not been a big deal with warm water to swim in. When the water cools down enough that we don’t want yo float in it while we wait for the bag to fill I will likely be trying something to improve my fill times as well.

I wonder how well a jet pump squirt gun type device with a manifold to three lines would work for those of us that don’t have e series buckets?

Good point on the air cap/vent. Ideally I would not want to use it much at all, but just to finish things off - of the three pumps two on a timer (set conservatively) w/the third fully manual, that one is currently on a switch on a “wand” I fabricated that makes it accessible standing anywhere on the swim platform, kind of like an industrial winch remote, lol, but it drives me nuts, I need it mounted somewhere.
I edited my post above, duh, in anticipation of your new device, coming soon, right???
(not the squirt gun!)

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[swatski]

I love R&D stuff like this.........Finding good R&D in a group setting is often hard to do.



First ideas that come to mind are these:

Switches closer to the location where the filling happens. Perhaps inside the wet storage areas? Just flip them on/off as needed since you'll be right there with the bag anyway?

I don't like timers for things that are filling. Voltage drop, flow rates, and other variable make these less than ideal IMO. Sure they work, but upset conditions can easily throw a wrench in the works. What about a pressure sensor of some sort on the fill lines? You should see the pressure increase with the height of water linearly. Would have to tune the response of the sensor, but is a more direct measurement of fill level than a timer I think. Likewise a current sensor on the pump could sense a "full bag", and would be more indicative of a full condition than running for a set amount of time. This is basically how "auto up/down" windows work. They sense the current to the drive motor, and when it spikes they turn off. The spike is the result of the window reaching it's upper/lower limit and the motor fighting against that. I would expect fill pumps to have a current spike as well once head pressure increases due to a full bag.

You are right on. Timers fail any accuracy test as they can’t compensate for voltage differences, back pressure, air bubbles etc etc.

The plan is to have only the ski locker and two of the three transom bag pumps on timers.

—

 

[2kwik4u]

You are right on. Timers fail any accuracy test as they can’t compensate for voltage differences, back pressure, air bubbles etc etc.

The plan is to have only the ski locker and two of the three transom bag pumps on timers.

—

What about a wireless remote?

Here's a 4-channel unit for $40. Could set this up to run in parallel with the dash switches, or use the dish switches as enables.

Not very autonomous, but might keep you from running around like a headless chicken while filling.

 

[swatski]

What about a wireless remote?

Here's a 4-channel unit for $40. Could set this up to run in parallel with the dash switches, or use the dish switches as enables.

Not very autonomous, but might keep you from running around like a headless chicken while filling.

It would need to be a remote that works with the 3-way WM switch/harness system.

WakeMAKERS Complete Reversible Pump Ballast System

Free shipping, expert advice and our best price promise on the WakeMAKERS Complete Reversible Pump Ballast System at WakeMAKERS.

www.wakemakers.com

Edit: yes that would be ideal. I’m sure it can be done, easy for @Mainah or @KXCam22.
I really like the harness kits, made my life so much easier with the install. They do not offer remotes as far as I know though.

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[2kwik4u]

It would need to be a remote that works with the 3-way WM switch/harness system.

WakeMAKERS Complete Reversible Pump Ballast System

Free shipping, expert advice and our best price promise on the WakeMAKERS Complete Reversible Pump Ballast System at WakeMAKERS.

www.wakemakers.com

Edit: yes that would be ideal. I’m sure it can be done, easy for @Mainah or @KXCam22.
I really like the harness kits, made my life so much easier with the install. They do not offer remotes as far as I know though.

—

Ahhh....Didn't know you had the plug-n-play setup like that. The remotes could still work, but you would have to alter the harnesses provided by wakemakers.

Looks like they make a timer setup though, so that sounds like the right direction for you. I would be so tempted to put them on remotes myself

 

[swatski]

I played around with the WakeMakers timers today, I think it's going to work great. Not perfect, but good enough to call it a day.

Also fun to watch the three pumps fill the bag, and then drain it until it shrivels like a raisin!


With my center locker bag timer not fully calibrated I needed to finish emptying the bladder back on the lift, lol.


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[Scottie]

I like this very much. I don't have the wet lockers, unfortunately, so nowhere to put the 2nd hose, even if I did re-route the hose for the starboard side bag. What would adding a 1" intake to the bag do? I'd leave the existing ports and just add a 1" flo-rite fitting. My intake is 1", along with my aux fill port. Is the 3/4" intake on the bag restricting flow in any noticeable amount?

 

[swatski]

A 1" ID hose gives twice the area of a 3/4" so it can make a big difference, but it depends on the system's other limitations too. Most pumps are 1/2" outlets. In my case the pump and the bag ports are the only non-1" parts so if I can I will try to switch that in the future.

Without the wet comps a shower hose like gate/port might be the way to go?

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[Mainah]

The team effort here (jetboaters) has been remarkable and as far as I'm concerned it's starting to bear fruit.
Come to think of it, between @J-RAD, @jcyamaharider, @Ridesteady, @Mainah et al. they are helping Mother Yamaha turn these jet boats into surf machines, lol.

Ultimately, as any dedicated wake boat owner will attest, it's the ease of using a particular surf setup that dictates utility and frequency of surf sessions.

For me, at least with this particular boat, the last remaining part of the setup is semi-automation with timers tuned to operate the pumps - from the helm - to not need to run back and forth to swim deck or check inside the ski locker. I would also like to have the transom bag mounted with some kind of place holders or clips.
(yes, a captain running around the deck "like a chicken with its head chopped off" can feel awkward, especially with a boat full of people and if they're new to boating/water sports)

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@swatski You missed yourself on that list. I am sure many active folks and lurkers here have benefited greatly from all that you do and share.