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Used car with Automatic Emergency Braking??? Opinions? Teen driver!

Julian

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So my daughter is about to get her license (WARING TO RALEIGH NC DRIVERS!!!!).....and we are pondering getting a 3rd car....and given her driving skills, Automatic Emergency Braking might be a valuable "investment". Looking at a used car.....

Nissan's have it on their Sentra's - pretty cost effective choice.

Anyone have any personal opinions?

I did go through this list:
 

Jim_in_Delaware

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In the 80's there was a sitcom called "Who's the Boss". You might get some ideas from the car Tony got for his daughter Sam! ;)

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I have auto breaking on my truck. After almost a year, I'm still considering disabling it fulltime (easy to do from the nav station). I hate that sometimes when I am backing up, it emergency brakes if there is slight hill behind my truck. OMG it is even worse when backing up my ATV trailer up a slight grade (I actually do disable it when I trailer). I haven't disabled it for regular driving just for the 1 time in 100, that it actually prevents me from having an accident.

I do like the nav backup camera and the blindspot mirror indicators!

Jim
 

tabbibus

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I've had two instances of them saving my butt:

1. Ford Expedition. Didn't realize car in front of me had slowed down fast (my bad, distracted), the "oh fuck" lights flashed and it started to brake. I soon put my foot on the brake as well but it had already slowed me down. If it hadn't I would've likely not had enough time to stop before I got acquainted with his rear bumper.

2. This one is fancier. Tesla model S. Car in front of the car in front of me suddenly slowed down. Tesla's fancy spanshy system noticed that and started to slow me down even before the actual car in front of me did a sudden brake check.
 

Ronnie

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My son and I have driven several cars with smart features like auto braking, adaptive cruise control and lane assist since he got his license three years ago. The most memorable was the first, a Nissan rouge, with all the new safety features. The last was the most problematic, a 2021 Rav 4.

for the most part both of us like the the auto braking and other safety features but it did take me a little longer to get used to (I’ve been driving a lot longer than my son). You always have the option of turning the feature off. I didn’t turn it off when I was driving but dis disable it for my son under the rationale that I didn’t want him to get used to featurethat he didn’t or wouldn’t have on his car.

the Rav 4 features are or were heavily reliant on the cameras and sensors, my mom’s new Rav 4 had a bad forward facing camera which caused all kinds of warning lights to come on and disabled several safety features such that the it was in the shop / dealer for the first four weeks she owned it. She got a new Corolla as a loaner which had all the safety features as well, everything worked perfectly. I was impressed until I saw the sticker price of $30k.

Since the car is for a new driver I’d recommend getting one with all the of safety features you can on it.
 

I_squared_r

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My tacoma has lane departure warning and automatic braking. Sometimes it has false alarms when someone is slowing down for a turn in front of me and im keeping my speed.

My mom has the hyundai tucson and it takes the lane departure to another level because it will steer the car back into the lane. It pairs well with the automatic braking. Think, these safety features are invaluable if falling asleep at the wheel.
 

2kwik4u

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I have a love/hate relationship with safety systems. As an experienced and formally trained driver, I hate them. As a lazy SOB, and believer that most people are NOT good at driving, I love them.

I have two instances where a car has tried to kill me because a software developer made a decision about how the car should act by default months or years before the situation I put the vehicle in. Both instances a little bit of patience, or perhaps slightly less aggressive driving could have prevented in the first place. Arguably my fault for creating the less than ideal situation, but the software made a bad situation worse.

In my '12 Focus I pulled out in front of a dump truck. As I grabbed a big handful of second gear (yes it had a manual transmission), traction control decided I didn't need that power right now and essentially shut down the engine. Dump truck had to hop the curb and drive around me instead of rear ending me. Had it just spun the tires a bit more I would have arguably made it. My fault for getting in that situation, cars fault for making it worse.

In my current Q7, the "left turn collision avoidance" has misfired twice in the 7mo I've owned it. If it thinks I can't make it across traffic before the oncoming car gets to me, it slams on the brakes and forces me to release the gas, press the brake, then release the brake to move again. Once it didn't fire quite as fast as I was being aggressive and I was 1/4 way across the lane when it stopped me. I'm now sitting still in oncoming traffic with an F350 coming head on at me. Luckily he had space to gently swerve around me, but I would have rather just been through the intersection and on my way. My fault for putting myself in that position, software's fault for making it worse.......Also, one of these times was with my wife driving it. It scared her so badly she won't drive the car now. I mean, FULL ON REFUSAL to drive the car. She doesn't have any confidence that it's not going to try to stop her in traffic again when she doesn't want it to.......It's also pinned her between the hatch and the fridge in the garage, but that's another story for another day.

In general, the more experience you have driving, or the more aggressive you drive the worse the interference from the systems are. Much to my wifes point, it can SERIOUSLY dent the confidence of a driver as well. Not so much with their confidence in driving ability (my wife still thinks she's a fine driver, and generally she is), but in their confidence that the car will do what is asked of it. That mental effect of mistrust in a machine is hard to shake. You know the whole "boy who cried wolf" thing applies here as well. If you get sick of listening to the alert you start to find ways to avoid it all together. The Audi dinged my confidence in the car to such a point now, I turn off my signal just before I start to move. It won't check oncoming traffic if it doesn't think I'm turning. I can be as aggressive with that turn across traffic as I like and it doesn't try to stop me.

WITH ALL OF THAT SAID........We also have a 2018 Nissan Rogue. It has adaptive cruise, lane keep assist, collision warning, blind spot warning, and I'm sure some other safety stuff we don't even pay attention to. By and large it works great, has the appropriate level if intervention, and makes it a generally nice vehicle to drive. I know when driving the Rogue there have been a few "oh shit" moments in traffic where the car has beaten us to the brake pedal application, and it's proved it's worth. Overall, it's a nice set of features that I don't mind having, and generally stay out of my hair with false alarms.

The Automatic Cruise Assist is a little unnerving at first, but once you get used to it and build that aforementioned trust in the system, it's really a NICE feature on long road trips. City traffic and morning commutes have to much variability to use it much, but those road trips are much less stressful with that feature. We're hoping to keep the Rogue long enough to make that our (now 10.5yr old) first sons first car. It's small, light, easy to park and maneuver. It has AWD for foul weather, and only like 180hp or something, so it doesn't go fast enough to really get in too deep of trouble. Visibility is excellent, and it's generally "light weight" enough that I doubt maintenance will be a big issue. Biggest concern there is the CVT that everyone hates for some reason. They don't have a great track record in that area, but it's a relatively small transmission and it's not overly expensive to replace. When the time comes, I'll swap it in the garage and move on.
 

2kwik4u

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l because it will steer the car back into the lane.
Both of our cars do this now. The Nissan by default, the Audi when I feel like turning it on. I would be amiss to not say that I've let the Audi "drive me home" a few times when I've been tired or otherwise "fatigued". So long as I keep some force on the steering wheel (my hand draped across the lower portion is plenty) it will correct for speed based on traffic signs, and steer the wheel to keep me in the lane. Does a fair job of both, and sounds an exceptionally loud alarm when it "loses track" of where the road is.

It takes some getting used to, but once you have it, I'm not sure I'll want to go back to without it. Been casually looking at 2500 pickups lately, and none of them that I can afford have driver assist at this level.
 

I_squared_r

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Both of our cars do this now. The Nissan by default, the Audi when I feel like turning it on. I would be amiss to not say that I've let the Audi "drive me home" a few times when I've been tired or otherwise "fatigued". So long as I keep some force on the steering wheel (my hand draped across the lower portion is plenty) it will correct for speed based on traffic signs, and steer the wheel to keep me in the lane. Does a fair job of both, and sounds an exceptionally loud alarm when it "loses track" of where the road is.

It takes some getting used to, but once you have it, I'm not sure I'll want to go back to without it. Been casually looking at 2500 pickups lately, and none of them that I can afford have driver assist at this level.
I tried letting the Hyundai Tucson drive for me, but it will turn off the steering assist if let too long. And it does it suddenly without much of a warning. I mean, it gives a message like "Please take control of the wheel", but it doesnt give a warning like "about to turn off the steering assist"
 

Danielmailin

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Stay away from any vehicle that have a CVT transmission, no matter the brand (Nissan uses it in most of their small cars) this transmission are troublesome and no one will rebuild them.
As for Emergency braking, yes I understand your decision, but I would also suggest using the money to pay for a Teen Driving survival program as the one Skip Barber school offer, but there are many others around the country.



I have been working with vehicle manufacturing for over 20 years and know everything there is to know about safety technology that is used now and will be used in the future, and the Teen Driving survival program will be what I will use with my kids, my humble opinion.
 

Neutron

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Stay away from any vehicle that have a CVT transmission, no matter the brand (Nissan uses it in most of their small cars) this transmission are troublesome and no one will rebuild them.
As for Emergency braking, yes I understand your decision, but I would also suggest using the money to pay for a Teen Driving survival program as the one Skip Barber school offer, but there are many others around the country.



I have been working with vehicle manufacturing for over 20 years and know everything there is to know about safety technology that is used now and will be used in the future, and the Teen Driving survival program will be what I will use with my kids, my humble opinion.
Everything is going CVT in the near future. Almost every manufacturer uses them in their smaller cars. Honda, Ford, Toyota, GM, and many more. Staying away from CVTs are impossible in newish cars.
And with everything going hybrid and electric they are all CVTs
 

Danielmailin

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That is the trend, still to this date they are throw away transmission. If you have a vehicle out of warranty with a CVT, you are left with the only option of swapping with a junkyard transmission and hope it works, as replacing it with a new one cost more then the price of the vehicle and no one will rebuild them, as the part cost are to high.
As for HEV/CVT, that is a double negative.
The price of a HEV battery, HEV Major components on a vehicle that is out of warranty are more then the vehicles itself used. You are stuck with bringing your vehicle to the dealer as no one in the aftermarket will pay to have access to all the manufacturer programs to diagnose and calibrate HEV components. In top of this add CVT, you end up with a vehicle that will cost to much to repair if anything goes wrong after the warranty expires.
If buying used, stay away from HEV/CVT vehicles.
If you do end up buying one, make sure that you have a good extended warranty that will specifically cover most of the components mentioned, if not you will end up with a used vehicle that is only good as an anchor.
 
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Rumbo

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Such a scary time!!! I went through this last year. We bought a used Subaru Outback with Eyesight. I don’t think there is a safer car on the market. Personally, I prefer the GM driver assist feature to Subaru but I feel that we made a great choice.
 

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Had a few diff. brand experiences with these systems, some good and some not quite there. So I would recommend digging into how they work in day to day situations to find one that's feels like it has the right level of features you are after.

I will say I'm driving a Infiniti QX80 ('21 I think?) rental right now, pretty impressed with the adaptive cruise, auto braking, etc. but doesn't seem polished and sort of an incomplete system. So can't say I would recommend it, guessing it's got the same guts as the same as Nissan's stuff.
 

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I have a 2020 Ford Explorer Platinum with all the safety features. Sometimes they can be annoying. Like slamming the brakes on while backing in the garage. It actually hurt my back. Trust me, your child will be safer with these features, but teach them how they work and how to react to each one.
 

adrianp89

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Love/hate as well. Never have had the need but nice to know it's there but man does it get annoying some times. Backing up is the worst, sometimes it just slams on the brakes. Yes I know a bush is there, I am going <1mph and sticking out the parking spot.
 

2kwik4u

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Love/hate as well. Never have had the need but nice to know it's there but man does it get annoying some times. Backing up is the worst, sometimes it just slams on the brakes. Yes I know a bush is there, I am going <1mph and sticking out the parking spot.
Neighbor with a 2021 Nissan Titan HATES the backup assist braking. He's a construction foreman and is in either tight spaces or backing up to a trailer quite often. He can turn the assist off, but every time he cycles through a drive/reverse (like adjusting a position to get a trailer hooked up) it reverts back to "on" status and will stop again. It's just an annoying workflow that wasn't thought out for a HD vehicle IMO.

Overall still loves his Titan far more than the Silverado it replaced.
 

adrianp89

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Neighbor with a 2021 Nissan Titan HATES the backup assist braking. He's a construction foreman and is in either tight spaces or backing up to a trailer quite often. He can turn the assist off, but every time he cycles through a drive/reverse (like adjusting a position to get a trailer hooked up) it reverts back to "on" status and will stop again. It's just an annoying workflow that wasn't thought out for a HD vehicle IMO.

Overall still loves his Titan far more than the Silverado it replaced.
Well I feel a bit better. My Ram is easy to turn off front or rear sensor (or any other safety feature)... and the features stay off until you turn them back on. Great for boat days.
 

Julian

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Love/hate as well. Never have had the need but nice to know it's there but man does it get annoying some times. Backing up is the worst, sometimes it just slams on the brakes. Yes I know a bush is there, I am going <1mph and sticking out the parking spot.
My Audi has almost never braked inappropriately (the only time it has was when in Adaptive cruise with a car slowing for an off ramp, and once for a car turning right--it wanted more room between us and the car, but I could see the car was going to turn and get out of the way). It HAS done appropriate emergency braking for my teen.

What make and model has this backup issue?
 

2kwik4u

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What make and model has this backup issue?
My '17 Audi Q7 has done this a few times backing in the garage if I come in a little hot on first approach (2-3mph maybe). Wifes '18 Nissan Rogue, and my old '15 GMC Sierra have also done it once or twice as well. I think it's a function of speed and proximity to "stuff". Best guess is they are calculating time or distance to impact and then comparing to user inputs to determine an intervention is needed. Purely conjecture on my part, but seems plausible considering more "aggressive" driving results in more correctional output from the system.

Just this morning on my way in, I had the active cruise set at 75 coming through downtown Louisville on I-64E. As I rounded the left hand corner going under the 9th street exit overpass, the car suddenly decided that the semi in the center lane (I was in the left with nobody in front of me) was to be detected as a car in my lane. He was going a good 10-15mph slower than I was. Car applied heavy brakes, somewhat without warning or reason. I was able to override the system with the throttle pedal to maintain speed, but the guy following me probably didn't appreciate the unwarranted brake application.........I'm acutely aware of my position within traffic, how my actions affect other drivers in terms of visibility and traffic flow, and how they might react to me as well. Consistency, trust, and communication are key to keeping everyone safe. Obviously some drivers do this more than others, but it's the base I try to work from.

It's things like this morning, or my experiences above, that give me pause with these sort of safety and autonomous driving technologies. You're relinquishing the decision making of a real-time situation to that which the manufacturer has already decided. Whatever algorithm they used, whatever safety protocols they setup as standard is how the car will act upon the inputs given. The ability to make real-time decisions (as infrequent as they may be) is significantly hindered unless they are practiced regularly. That practice is hard to due since you have to be in a dangerous position to get them to activate. Take my left turn stop scenario above, say I was in a position to make a choice to be rear ended, or turn through traffic in a tighter opening than Audi would have liked. If Audi made the decision for me to stop, without knowing there is an imminent rear end collision coming, how do we reconcile that?......Sure these are hypotheticals, but when operating a 2.5ton machine, at speed, with other humans doing the same around you, it's important to know how it will react.

This leads me to education. Someone above mentioned driver training, and I 100% agree with that. I would recommend as much seat time as you can get the young driver before you send them out alone. Things like high performance driving schools, local Autocross events, and even as weird as it sounds a Motorcycle Safety Foundation endorsed class are great experiences. That will pay dividends for years. Not just learning the rules, but learning the FEEL of the machine under both controlled and out of control situations. Learning the methods to keep you and your vehicle in safe positions around traffic, actively avoiding blind spots, actively watching drivers heads and eyes, constant escape route planning, and a myriad of other methodologies to employ while behind the wheel. Much like sports, the best defense is a good offense. Protecting your space, and predicting the next move will keep the initial need for a safety system of interfering from happening at all.

I'll leave my soapbox about distracted driving at the door on this one, it's mostly likely an obvious rant for this particular crowd :D
 

Julian

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So I ended up getting her a brand new Kia Forte GT (didn't want the GT- but availability forced that). It has all the safety features we were looking for. A Kia Forte GTLine would have been a better choice (more features, less power) but we simply couldn't get our hands on one! We found one at Battleground Kia in Goldsboro - called to confirm it was there, drove over there and it was sold by the time we arrived! (now I'm 99% certain it was sold before I left too...serious bait and switch there). That said, that dealer had one Forte on the lot (first time we found one on the lot) so we bought it (despite the bait and switch game they played). I would NOT recommend this dealer....but we do like the car!

And yes....I had to pay more than MSRP, $2500 more, but not the $5995 more than both local dealers wanted and wouldn't budge. So I feel raped...but my daughter is smiling and we no longer have to coordinate 2 cars with 3 drivers (yeah....1st world problem for sure).
 
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