Choosing between Yamaha 210 vs Scarab 215.. help

[PizzaManJoe]

So i have never owned a boat before drove/rode in plenty but over the next couple years i plan on buying and jet boats caught my attention. I from the new england area so im a little concerned about stuff getting sucked up into the engine ive been reading thats a problem. My main questions are..
1. Which jet boat is also the best for ocean use
2. Which of the two yamaha or scarab is better in your opinion (i live close to a yamaha dealer that sells both)
3. What features best separate the 2 models 210 vs 215
4. Whats the top speed between the engines in these two boats ive only seen reviews from ~2016 is it still current
5. Do you live in new england and have you experienced any issues in certain lakes/oceans

Thank you

 

[tdonoughue]

Well, I may be biased, but when I bought, I bought a Yamaha because I thought it was the best value for the money. Cleanout ports are key for me, as was a reliable engine and a boat that was all one manufacturer (I did not relish a boat manufacturer telling me I needed to go to an engine manufacturer for an issue or something screwy like that). Don't know a lot of the specifics on the 210/215, so I will let others comment on that.

 

[Luc Lafreniere]

I'll start with the same line... "I may be biased".... lol Listen, a few people here have owned both brands. Hopefully one will comment, but most of us have only owned one or the other. Hard to be unbiased here.

1. Can't comment since I'm a fresh water guy. But I know one of the claim to faims of Scarabs is the mostly closed loop engine cooling system. Uses antifreeze, no outside water for the ENGINE ONLY. The exhaust is still cooled via lake/sea water. The idea being that the engine is the most critical to protect in sea water. Does it make a big difference? No idea. I don't have enough experience with sea water.
2. I looked at both when I bought my little Scarab 165. Frankly, I think both are very similar in that one has one feature, but the other brand counters with a different feature. You end up with two jet boats, with different, feel, style, features, both with their merits. I think that is a little personal for your style of boating. But I will say, if you rely on a dealer to do your maintenance (like most), that dealer is very important. Either way, I'd make sure they work equally well on both brands.
3. Can't comment.
4. Can't comment.
5. Can't comment.

General note: Doesn't matter which brand you choose, the boat will have problems. Hopefully not significant. All boats are toys and they all break, all the time. lol Stay on top of the maintenance, treat it well and hopefully it will pay back in time. I'm at 170h on my little Scarab 165, 4th season of use. Engine has been rock solid. Various small issues, all addressed with some work. That WILL apply to all boats. I do like the idea of the clean out ports of Yamahas, but in 170h of use, I've gotten something stuck in the impeller exactly once. A small stick when I literally idled over 12" of water and fully knew it. I shouldn't have done that. The stick was well wedged in there and I did have to go for a swim with a pair of long needle nose pliers and a mask/flashlight. Wasn't fun but it was summer and hot. That was the only time I wished I had the cleanout port. But I've seen others here with the port and similar problems and it didn't help them. But there's a good chance it would have come in handy that time. On the Scarab side, lighter weeds are not a problem. It simply chews them up and spits them out. If you manage to get a clump stuck, you can usually push it out with a hard spin trick that lets water flow backwards through the pump. A rare thing in my case. I REALLY LOVE the steering in idle/reverse of Scarabs. That is hands down the best feature of Scarabs as compared to Yamaha. That alone makes me want to stick to Scarab forever. I don't know many times that has come in handy in marinas, shorelines, etc. It's simply impressive what you can do with some practice. People in marinas literally stare and come talk to me when they see me maneuver like that. lol

Maybe Yamaha and Scarab will merge those features one day. lol Don't hold your breath. But they are both great looking boats!

 

[212s]

I'm biased, but only slightly I think because I went through this process myself over the last couple years. My wife and I have been boating for many years and I wanted to switch to a jetboat so I looked at Glastron, Scarab, Vortex, and Yamaha. I was leaning heavily toward the Vortex as I believe it has the top finish, but the seating was a no-go for the wife. Glastron was nice and simple, but too plain. Scarab was ok but we didn't like the tower and design was lacking for us. The wife insisted on dual captain's chairs so this left the Yamaha which ticked all the boxes or compromised when it didn't. We noticed the Yamaha fit and finish improved over the last couple years and the 2019 looked good and we almost bought last year but decided to wait to see the 2020 colours. The colour schemes looked even better so we finally decided to buy. We compared the 212 series to the 215 as I believe they're much closer than the 210 series which has smaller engines with less power with the 1.5l engines, and a bit lower trim level.

We managed to wet test several models and all handled in the water well, and performed well, each had some unique quirks or features but none really stand out to smash the competition. I would have been happy with any of them, but we had to make a choice. The clean out ports of the Yamaha are often mentioned, but I've not found much use for them so far. Some very dense weeds were a slight issue, but that's it.

Of the big selling points for us with the Yamaha were the swim platform, twin engines WITHOUT superchargers but plenty of power (no blower whine), tower without straps or poles, and the articulating keel works similar to a stern drive for steering input (aftermarket fins are available for BRP models). We looked at 19" and 21' sizes from all of the above brands and chose the 212s as it fit our needs.

Now to address your question points:

1 - while the closed-loop cooling of the BRP engines is a good idea, it still uses raw water cooling for the exhaust so both need to be flushed after saltwater use - both are built to be used in fresh or saltwater.

2 - Yamaha! but opinions vary.

3 - mentioned above but opinions vary about colours and styling, that's why we have choices!

4 - top speed is over-rated as we spend 99% of our time well below WOT, and jetboats are not built for highest speeds, but rather acceleration and no prop. However the 210 hits mid to high 40's. 215 with the 150hp engines hits mid 40's. Option it with the 200/250/300 hp engines and the top speed climbs up to 50/55/60 respectively but so does the price. The 212 hits low to mid 50's (I've hit over 52 easily so far on hot days and expect cooler weather will push that up a bit)

5 - we live in Canada and boat in freshwater in the great lakes and surrounding areas, but water is water as far as I'm concerned.

Good luck with your search and do your homework. No matter what you decide, they're all a lot of fun.

 

[Enduro900]

Are you buying used or new?

Does your co-pilot want a captains chair or a lounger?

Are you a HP addict or is standard power offerings plenty for your planned use?

These questions will help you narrow down your choice. You’ll also want to add chap/vortex into your list for the trifecta of jet offerings.

 

[scarab215]

I've only owned a Scarab so I can't comment on the Yamaha but my Scarab handles amazingly.
I will admit that when I first got it, I was very skeptical of the steering and handling at low speeds. I live on a canal with LOTS of no wake zones. I immediately just knew that I was going to have to purchase those fin add ons for the two jets. However, after spending some time getting used to the handling and throttle along with the just general experience with it, I absolutely love the way that it is. I can manuever that thing like a surgeon and that includes open water, docking, no wake zones, pulling into the lift and getting my way in and out of sandbar parties with lots of tight neighbors. I've seen the add on fins in use and I'm sure they help but I found that I personally don't want for them any longer.

WEEDS and debris. I've only had two occasions of this happening.
Once was a small stick but it was wedged in there enough to make me have to pull in. In my case, I have a lift so I just raised it up and let her sit for a few days, the shrinking down after that stick dried out was enough for it to shoot on out the next time.
Second time was in a tiny cove gas station that was full of the floating weeds. I definitely shouldn't have gone in there but needed fuel badly so I made the call to do it anyway and paid for it. I had to limp home but again, I have a lift so I just raised her up and got in the water and pulled them all out very easily, both intake sides were completely clogged up but luckily it was thick enough stuff that it stopped at the grates. Nothing at all on the shaft cover or impellers.
I carry a mask and underwater flashlight with me now so that if it ever happens again, I'll just jump in and clean it out.
The Yamaha's do have the clean out ports but the Scarabs have the protected shafts so in both my cases, the clean out ports wouldn't have helped me at all.
Also, just a personal preference but I like the swim deck on the Scarabs a ton more than the Yamahas. The seating is better in my opinion and the wet storage comes in very handy.

 

[Alan]

We boat on the Connecticut river primarily and occasionally on the Long Island Sound. Our boat is a Yamaha and I've no experience with a Scarab. If you use a Yamaha in salt water it needs to be flushed with fresh water after each use. Having the Connecticut river to return home solves the problem. As with all boats if you use them in salt water the boats hardware will be impacted by the salt over time if you fail to hose the boat down after each use.

 

[bigwaves]

I bought the Yamaha because of the clean out ports, bulletproof reputation of the Yamaha engines, the entire boat is Yamaha so no jerking around with warranty issues if a problem would arise. The Scarab boats are nice and a little more flashy but for me the Yamaha was the way to go. I’m in the Chesapeake Bay so I’m in brackish water. I flush the engine and rinse down the boat with salt-away every time I come in without fail.

 

[ncnmra]

My perspective may be irrelevant, as my opinion is a few years old, but when I was shopping a number of years ago, I was comparing the SeaDoo (Rotax engines) and Yamaha boats. Perhaps times have changed (both ways), but the Yamaha engines were way more reliable than the Rotax. I wouldn't touch anything with a supercharger, I had a friend who's Rotax supercharger died on the water: $3500 repair bill, he was close to only 100h.

That being said, I think Yamaha has sat on their laurels and let quality slip. The issues with the 2014-2016 (?) breaking timing chains made me put the brakes on thinking of an upgrade, as well as the interior of the new boats seems very spartan (the cushions seem thin and square compared to my plushy feeling ones). The Yamaha boat prices here in Canada are astronomical. I'm really pleased with the build quality and comfort of my 2008 212X. I wish it were quieter, but I hear that has been addressed in newer years.

Regarding the clean out ports, perhaps it depends where you are boating. I haven't had a lot of weed encounters, and have NEVER successfully used them to pull out weeds. The one time I did, the ports were useless and I needed to snorkel under the boat anyway. Most of the time, the "reverse manouver" works flawlessly. With the whole "plug blowout" and "plug seizing" issues (are those still a thing?), I'd say they are a gimmick.

I think you will have higher resale with Yamaha, unless they continue to let their reputation slide.

Just my $0.02.

 

[tdonoughue]

I appreciate @ncnmra 's perspective. I agree with most of it. Very good points.

The single point on which I would take slight issue would be the cleanout ports. I don't boat much with weeds, so I can totally believe they might not be useful there. But I have many times used the cleanout ports to extract wood chunks, plastic bags, and (yes) even tow rope from the impeller. So I do think the comment that it matters where you boat as to their value is likely correct.

 

[Rowdie]

I appreciate @ncnmra 's perspective. I agree with most of it. Very good points.

The single point on which I would take slight issue would be the cleanout ports. I don't boat much with weeds, so I can totally believe they might not be useful there. But I have many times used the cleanout ports to extract wood chunks, plastic bags, and (yes) even tow rope from the impeller. So I do think the comment that it matters where you boat as to their value is likely correct.

they work awesome with weeds.That’s the only thing I’ve ever needed them for.

 

[Rowdie]

So i have never owned a boat before drove/rode in plenty but over the next couple years i plan on buying and jet boats caught my attention. I from the new england area so im a little concerned about stuff getting sucked up into the engine ive been reading thats a problem. My main questions are..
1. Which jet boat is also the best for ocean use

Are you concerned about saltwater or waves?
Really doesn’t change my answer.

Waves are pretty equal. Weight probably makes the biggest difference and these two are very close. I never was in them back to back at same location but over all I didn’t note a difference. If you are concerned about ride moving up a notch in length will be your biggest difference.

salt/reliability. when I owned mad seados I can tell you the standard comment was don’t let them run out of warranty. While I don’t think it appropriate to draw conclusions from that experience I mention it just to note that they went with a closed cooling system cause they couldn’t get them to last for shit with out it. They should not get bonus points for the closed system cause we think that should be better.

I have zero experience with closed system and can only relate what the mechanics say when I chat them up. With out fail it’s a nod that the closed system has improved reliability but yeah, get the Yamaha.

2. Which of the two yamaha or scarab is better in your opinion (i live close to a yamaha dealer that sells both)

Depends on what you value.

3. What features best separate the 2 models 210 vs 215

To get the best answers you really need to narrow down what boats you’re looking at and what kind of boating you hope to do.

Just hull wise looking at base models, clean out ports, second captain chair, and I’d add space.

the ports are definitely useful when needed. Not needing to jump in the water like I’m the ole islandia is nice.

I rarely get weeds that cause an issue and now I can pretty much predict it, but the handful of times it’s happened the ports are easy.

4. Whats the top speed between the engines in these two boats ive only seen reviews from ~2016 is it still current

Multiple engine options In both boats depending on model. If performance is your thing I’d say that’s scarabs goal.
Seems to me you can get 500 and maybe now 600 hp in the scarab. Think you need to get to the 24/25 Yamaha for that.

thank you

yeah man no issue.

I honesty think once you go look at them and know what kind of boating you really do the answer will be clear and you really didn’t need any of this.


Moar...

not to jinx myself but this every boat breaks thing, where not in the searay forum. And not to jinx myself or my buddy but each has 2018 21’ Yamaha and not a single broken yet. I get that broken may have different levels so let me put it this way,neither of us have had to limp home or had something that kept us from water.

maybe I have a soft definition of broken, but I’d say I come by it honesty having grow Up with searays.

we constantly limped in. Had to get a diesel repowered! More recently friend eventually had to bail on his errr. 2000 something 32 cause ithad Issue every time out. Bro in laws 24 he didn’t keep past warranty and hadissues that prevented him from getting on water. The 24s that comes out with me is of the same age and still kicking it. 2012-ish.

point of all that, I call bs in just expecting breakage these days. We’re way past say a car built pre-2000.

there seems to be plenty of really reliable boats. And they should be considering the maintenance schedule. ... it’s as bad as owning a BMW with an M badge in it.

 

[Jane305]

I voted for Scarab because I like its design.