EV discussion - hate or love?

[2kwik4u]

We really should form a support group.

"Hi, my name is Mike and I want all the cars"
"Hi Mike"
"Today is a milestone for me, I haven't shopped new cars for 48 hours, despite having buddies send me cool cars on Facebook marketplace"
*Everyone claps*

Exactly.

 

[2kwik4u]

Rivian doesn't charge interest on their leases?

They do on most of them. Most deals lately have been around 5-6% (converted money factor). I got a special last year on a truck in inventory they were trying to move. "Rent Charge" on an ~$85k lease is $42.50.....so, not zero percent interest, but damn close.

 

[Bluewater272]

Oh nice, that's pretty sweet.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Tried that. I get bored. My X5 is literally my perfect spec. Would I prefer a full M? Maybe but not enough to care (I could put the Alpina tune on it for the power of I did). I just get bored, maybe that's because when I drive something a little more mundane I'm like "I could have done this in something more fun". Maybe it's because I have a sickness where I want more cars. Maybe it's a "grass is greener" thing.

Part of me thinks I just need something that's powerful, but not too crazy fast, with enough space for the family, and a manual, ideally with a "muscle car" feel over a luxury cruiser. I really think I need to check out an E39 M5 in person.

Sounds like you messed by not getting a M and you would be still content with it years down the road lol

 

[BlkGS]

Sounds like you messed by not getting a M and you would be still content with it years down the road lol

I don't think so. I think what I really wanted was a CT5 Blackwing manual or an E39 M5 lol.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

I don't think so. I think what I really wanted was a CT5 Blackwing manual or an E39 M5 lol.

Points still made you didn’t get what you really wanted

 

[BlkGS]

Points still made you didn’t get what you really wanted

To be fair, I didn't KNOW that's what I wanted at the time lol.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

To be fair, I didn't KNOW that's what I wanted at the time lol.

I get it. I lucked out on my truck. Bought a 2019 that was a lemon and then custom ordered my 2020 after I knew exactly what I wanted.

Part of this is probably also taking care of your vehicles. My truck still looks darn close to new inside and out. PPF and Ceramic doing their job well.

 

[2kwik4u]

To be fair, I didn't KNOW that's what I wanted at the time lol.

I would argue you still don't KNOW. Getting closer, but you'll try something else and you'll still want more.

Ask me how I know

 

[BlkGS]

I would argue you still don't KNOW. Getting closer, but you'll try something else and you'll still want more.

Ask me how I know

I know, that's part of the sickness. If I got an E39 M5 I'd say "man, this would be better with some more power and I hate using a real key". If I got an F10 M5 manual (so rare) I'd be like "it'd be nice if this car wasn't always broken.amd leaking". If I got a Blackwing I'd probably say "man, I really miss living in a house and not living in this car".

The X5 is great all around, it's just... Insulating. I like a little more visceral experience. Part of me thinks if I found a unicorn Cayenne GTS manual that'd check a lot of the boxes too.

 

[2kwik4u]

I know, that's part of the sickness. If I got an E39 M5 I'd say "man, this would be better with some more power and I hate using a real key". If I got an F10 M5 manual (so rare) I'd be like "it'd be nice if this car wasn't always broken.amd leaking". If I got a Blackwing I'd probably say "man, I really miss living in a house and not living in this car".

The X5 is great all around, it's just... Insulating. I like a little more visceral experience. Part of me thinks if I found a unicorn Cayenne GTS manual that'd check a lot of the boxes too.

Cayenne GTS is on my short list to investigate after the Rivian lease is up. Porsche CPO is exceptionally highly rated, and they drop value fast so that's where I'm looking. SQ7 is on the list as well. We'll see.

And it is part of the sickness At least we don't golf........oh wait.

 

[BlkGS]

Cayenne GTS is on my short list to investigate after the Rivian lease is up. Porsche CPO is exceptionally highly rated, and they drop value fast so that's where I'm looking. SQ7 is on the list as well. We'll see.

And it is part of the sickness At least we don't golf........oh wait.

The Cayenne GTS with a manual was the first generation (facelift technically). I didn't care for the current (I guess previous now) cayenne when shopping for the X5. X5 was better despite being cheaper. The BMW owners can't fathom that, they're all very much "Porsche costs more and is superior to my car".

Stelvio is the one I somewhat regert. It was so much fun, the QF version would have been awesome. It was just a little small. And the Alfa dealer was surprised I was looking at Alfa, they apparently mostly sell used cars there. That wasn't confidence inspiring. They kept talking about the BMWs and Mercedes they had used on the lot, lol.

 

[2kwik4u]

OK, just got off the phone with Rivian. Here's where I stand. They're mostly complete with the issues at hand (in 3.5 days). waiting on details for parts for the last few items. I'll keep the loaner through the weekend, and they expect to have next steps by close of business on Monday. Got to say, I'm not upset with service at all here. They're doing the right thing, and being communicative about it.

Updates in red.

• Chassis
  • (Pending) Truck pulls to the left, and has since purchase.
    • Alignment has been addressed twice and won't "stick" past about 100 miles
    • Possibly a front subframe issue
    • Diagnosed as a radial tire pull. Tires are at about 50% tread life. Going to address clunks, realign, and reassess.
    • If tires are the culprit, I'll move to another brand/style and ask Rivian to "prorate" a set for me. Not really reasonable to ask for a brand new set at this point, but the stock Pirellis suck and I want to move to something else. Maybe I'll get a discount out of it?!?!
  • (Pending) Front end "clunks" over sharp edged bumps
    • Have been told this is "normal", however it's becoming more frequent
    • Something is clearly loose and needs to be addressed
    • Front right damper has a failed internal bushing.
    • Two new dampers for front have been ordered. Parts are scarce. Will know more on availability Monday. Might require an "order and wait" with a return visit.
  • (Resolved) Rear driveline "clunk" on dual motor engage/disengage
    • Suspect this is "normal", but is noticeable now was not on delivery
    • Might be related to an update changing the engagement timing
    • Not sure on this, but need a response from Rivian on it.
    • Rear drive clutch had "lost calibration". Unit was recalibrated and readjusted. Issue solved.
  • (Resolved) Due for tire rotation
    • This is on me, just needs to get done while they have it.
    • Completed as part of alignment diagnosis
• Exterior
  • (Resolved) Front Fascia has broken tabs that have been addressed once
    • New front fascia was promised. Needs to be remedied
    • New fascia installed
  • (Resolved) Passenger gear tunnel door has "peeling"
    • I think this is protective film, but it's peeling off and looks awful
    • New protective film installed
• Interior
  • (Resolved) PAAK and fob don't work or work poorly on a regular basis.
    • Restarting phone Bluetooth on phone seems to remedy issue
    • Removing and replacing battery in fob seems to remedy issue
    • Suspect issue with Bluetooth module in truck
    • New battery put into fob, appears to be working as intended.
    • Have new procedure to resolve phone issues once phone and truck are in same place.
    • I'm not holding my breath this is completely resolved. I think it's a system design issue.
  • (Resolved) HVAC vents are sporadic at best and require frequent recalibration
    • Often point in wrong direction or show "off" while open, or are closed when show "on"
    • Suspect an issue with stepper motors having slipped within mechanism (or electrically lost steps)
    • tech looked at this during last mobile visit and admitted an issue exists
    • Just needs new parts installed/calibrated
    • new parts installed/calibrated/tested. Operating as designed.

In other thoughts on the EV front, Rivian in particular; They rolled out "Multi-Factor Drive Authentication" this morning. About half the trucks using PAAK were suddenly, and without warning, FORCED to scan a QR code on the screen, and then get a PIN texted to them before the truck would go into gear. Hours on the phone with Rivian support to "disable" the feature, and finally this afternoon it became "optional" through the app. What a giant cluster of a situation, and I'm pretty glad I'm in the loaner that isn't tied to the app. Just another reason that I don't think having a "constantly connected" vehicle is worth the effort.

Curious how the rest of you guys that use PAAK like it. Am I in the minority here for hating it?

 

[BlkGS]

People seem to be one of two camps with PAAK. They're either 100% on the Kool aid or hate it. It's a topic of contention on the BMW forum as well, lots of low IQ high enough income folks using PAAK and locking themselves out.

My take, people either carry nothing, or everything. If you're a pocket knife guy, you probably will never be a PAAK guy.

Personally, I tried it, and didn't like it at all,.so I use the fob.

 

[Bluewater272]

PAAK for Tesla is really quite good. Maybe once every couple months it doesn't work as expected, but the outcome is I gotta wait like 5-10 seconds for my phone to reconnect. I think I've traced it down to the car going to sleep when you first walk away, as it really only happens when I leave the car and then come right back (like a one minute convenience store trip).


I don't mind carrying stuff, but I hate carrying a key. Hell, my F150 has had the key inside of it for the entirety of the time I've owned it, and I just use the keypad to get in and out which is way more work than just keeping the key in my pocket. When I was a dumb kid, I even made my '96 integra keyless (but I still had a remote to arm/disarm the alarm, haha)

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

People seem to be one of two camps with PAAK. They're either 100% on the Kool aid or hate it. It's a topic of contention on the BMW forum as well, lots of low IQ high enough income folks using PAAK and locking themselves out.

My take, people either carry nothing, or everything. If you're a pocket knife guy, you probably will never be a PAAK guy.

Personally, I tried it, and didn't like it at all,.so I use the fob.

I’m in the less the better camp. When we went from the M3 to 4XE it was a big change. Went from nothing to a brick. I think key fobs generally should be smaller, the Jeeps are huge.

 

[CarolinaJet]

You sound hurt, or mad, or maybe both. I'm not sure I can help you on that front. I was just espousing some insights I gained while road tripping nearly back to back between two different vehicles. Whatever I did to rile your angst, man, I'm sorry.

Here are my thoughts. I'm not trying to convince you to like it, I'm really trying to be pretty objective here.

'18, same generation. Keep in mind I'm 6'2" tall and 240lbs. I'm not exactly a small guy, and that's not exactly a big vehicle. We did a 5hr stint straight from Louisville to Cleveland yesterday evening. One full tank in the Rogue. Had "hot spots" from sitting that long, never again. That was dumb.

Tried to keep the class and overall quality out of it, and stick to the dynamics of the trip.

Now, here's a hot take I didn't expect. Honestly, and frankly, this screams "I don't know what I'm talking about". The naivety of this response is really hard to overcome. I'm not going to debate this, because, well, others are doing it better than I can already, but I want to respond at some level.

• With one pedal "engaged", it is still possible to modulate speed with two pedals. The brakes are still there, they work great, and can be relied on to overpower the motors, just like any other vehicle. There is ZERO reduction in capability here.
• I fail to see how having a secondary system that scrubs speed is a bad thing. Driver "freaks out" and releases all controls, the machine stops. Arguably faster and in more control than without regen braking.
• If you don't like the settings, I'm not sure there is an EV out there that won't allow you to disable or reduce the effects for your personal preference.
• Rivian (others might as well) has a setting for "consistent braking". This setting allows the vehicle to apply the brakes, as needed, to generate consistent deceleration regardless of road conditions, battery conditions, and a myriad of other factors. It makes the truck feel the same on a hot summer afternoon as it does in the snow in the middle of winter. The brake pedal becomes a "backup" for coming in too hot to a corner/turn, not the primary actuator.
• If one pedal driving is so dangerous, why don't more people crash vehicles with hydrostatic transmissions. It's literally the same driving dynamics in terms of speed control.
• Just because you despise something, doesn't make it dangerous, wrong, or otherwise a bad idea. Your hot take is a really good example of why we shouldn't let people that aren't, at least at a reasonable level, experienced with tech, make laws about said tech.

Yea, the 2.5 isn't a shinning example of a smooth engine. Still, the premise remains, there is such a large chasm of difference between even the smoothest of ICE and the roughest of EV's.

Couple things here. If you're wife thinks the dog has been cooped up, imagine how she feels about herself? More breaks is better for your mental health, you can let go of the "but we have to make good time" mentality and live a happier life. I promise it's out there, and you'll enjoy it. Come join us on the light side

Charging up is as simple as "plug it in and walk away". Tesla, RAN, and EA all offer "plug and charge" connectivity. Vehicle talks to the network and sort out billing on it's own. I usually hang out to make sure that the charger ramps to the highest speeds then walk away. Takes less than a minute. I can check status from the phone if I'm curious how it's doing, or walk back to the truck to check status. Not to mention the arguably better security in payment. Haven't seen a card skimmer on an EV charger yet, but have seen plenty on gas pumps.

I'll be impressed with a 30min stop with the toddler, a dog, and a wife. I struggled to beat 20min with a 7yr old, 13yr old, a wife and a dog. The big change in mentality really made a difference in my overall experience on road trips.


I'm gonna take offense at "fake off-road cred" here. In a somewhat big way. This, again, screams "I don't know what I'm talking about". I went and off-roaded with a group of trucks last month and watch Rivians walk over obstacles that took Jeep Wrangler Rubicons 2-3 tries. Those are some of the most highly regarded off road machines you can buy, and stock for stock the Rivians more than kept up. For all the tech shit I've dealt with on this truck (and agree they're a startup with issues), the off-road chops are seriously second to none.

Regarding "There isn't that would fit us", sure, that's a fine reason to not get an EV. Everyone wants a little something different, and has a different take on things. I'm gonna push back though and ask what "We won't fit" and "plastic seats for $100k" has to do with the driveline. You haven't bought an EV because they don't make one you like, not because it's an EV. Just so we're clear.

Oh....and I thought 1 pedal driving would be a gimmick I'd probably not care about (I never tried it before I bought an EV). Once I tried it, I realized how cool it is. Now when I drive my ICE Q7 I miss it, and always ponder the energy lost when I coast towards a red light....grin.

My experience matches yours exactly.

 

[CarolinaJet]

Interesting to hear the cars each of you gearheads is thinking about and how closely it mirrors my list, and glad I’m not alone. E39 M5 has been on my dream list forever, and I sort of scratched that itch with my 2017 Chevy SS sedan w 6mt (which got sold so I could buy the boat). But the itch is still there. CT5V blacking is a relative newcomer to the dream list. What a car.

I seriously cross shopped a certified X5 xdrive 45e when looking for my model X. But it was nearly impossible to find one with the tow hitch, and then the 50e came out and had the much bigger battery but was out of my price range to buy new… same for the rivian. Test drove a Q7 at CarMax. Wonderful car to drive but I didn’t want to take on the expensive maintenance and repairs.

958 Cayenne with any of the V8 powertrains is what I look at now, along with an E46 4 door sedan as a fun car, fox body mustang I’ve always wanted, and at least 20 others.

One of my co-worker’s husband has 14 cars, all sorts of random stuff, nothing crazy expensive. I tell her he’s my hero, she rolls her eyes.

 

[2kwik4u]

@CarolinaJet You are not alone. I found a significant overlap between "boat people" and "car people"

We're getting ready to make an offer on a house. So I'm looking at finances HARD, and looking to lower my monthly cash outlay on vehicles overall. Wife has agreed to drive her '18 Rogue until my oldest is ready for a car (~3yrs). It'll be paid off in a few months. I'll likely let the Rivian go back at the end of the lease, and I'm seriously considering a late model GX470 for both sewing machine reliability and handling boat/snow duty. I hate that it drives like a marshmallow, but they're dead nuts reliable and relatively inexpensive (compared to other fullsize 3row SUV's). THEN......I'm hoping and taking a big swing here......That I can talk the wife into getting an Audi B7 RS4 Convertible as her "daily driver" when the oldest takes over the Rogue. Taht would get us into a 3car household with pretty low cash out of pocket.

Of course that will all change if we sell the boat. Which is a real consideration after this summer. We might be "southern boat people". Water and air are both cold up here. It was 55deg and windy yesterday, the last day of May. We're usually floating with beers by now, and I don't even have the battery in the boat yet, or registration, or training classes done. The season is much shorter, and we have waning interest from the littles. We'll see, but I wouldn't be surprised if the boat goes away in the coming months ......... If that happens, I won't need the GX for towing, and I'll find another AWD EV of some sort (likely an original eTron for cheap), and rock that for awhile.

Keeping in the theme of an EV centric thread. I am worried about going back to an ICE. I LOVE the smooth and quiet driveline of the EV. Power is instant and strong. There's no waiting for revs to come up for boost, or waiting for a transmission to downshift. All of that stuff just "feels" archaic and terrible now. It's also kind of funny, but I HATED the CVT in the Rogue. Now that I've driven an EV, the CVT is pretty close to the same dynamics as the EV. Significantly less power, but no shifting, and always the amount of power you ask for. I don't hate the CVT nearly as much as I used to.