How Yamaha drove me to a Scarab...

[dwillson]

I will try to make this as brief as possible....

I am a prior 2017 AR195 owner. I loved that boat and owned it 3 seasons until I fell in love with Yamaha's first 195S model. I sold my AR195 and put an order in for a 195S pre-COVID. My 195S never came in that year (summer of 2020). I ended up purchasing 2018 Cobalt 200S and kept that boat for one Summer. I sold the Cobalt last September and placed another Yamaha order for a 212SD. This time I placed my order in September. My 212SD was not manufactured or delivered either. I was lucky enough to visit a Scarab dealer her in Michigan on the day they received what was supposed to be a dealer demo (215 ID). The dealer decided that morning to sell the boat given the shortage instead of keeping it as his demo all summer. Not sure if I was really sold on the boat, or if I was just desperate for something to get on the water, but I placed a deposit on it that day.

3 months later and I have to say this Scarab is winning me over. I now have close to 20 hours on the engines (twin 250hp) and this thing runs smoother and quieter than my previous AR195. It is much quieter...we can have a conversation on the boat cruising at 20mph without yelling. The swim platform is leaps and bounds above the Yamaha. The interior appointments are a little better (although not as much as many believe). The seat cushions are thicker than Yamaha and flat out more comfortable. Both captains chairs have flip up bolsters (doesn't seem like a big deal, but we pretty much exclusively ride in captains chairs with the bolsters up). There are more advantages to the Scarab, but I will stop there for now.

In all honesty, I have wrestled with selling the Scarab to place another Yamaha order this year for a 212SD. Three things have kept me from doing this: (1) I am growing to love this Scarab more and more by the day, (2) there are not guarantees my Yamaha order will come in, and (3) Yamaha's 2022 price increases do not justify the product you are getting. One of Yamaha's big draws was the price. Well, their price is no longer that big of a plus in their column.

If you have been hesitant to look into a Scarab because of Yamaha's dominance in the industry, I would encourage you to at least look. I will also say my Scarab dealer has been super responsive and helpful (1000 times more than my Yamaha dealer). That is another reason I am keeping the Scarab. I can take it in for service and have it back within 48 hours. My Yamaha dealer would want my boat for 2 weeks. Hell, the boating season in Michigan is only 3 months.

Anyway, with Yamaha's ridiculous price increases I would encourage anyone in the market for a jet boat to shop around.

 

[Sean R]

How was the Cobalt? I had my eye on a 2020 CS23 but when my wife got wind of the price she said Hell No. My 212S was half the price. Glad you're liking the Scarab, I would keep it after reading your post.

 

[Bluewater272]

One of Yamaha's big draws was the price. Well, their price is no longer that big of a plus in their column.

This is huge for me. My boat was my first and last Yamaha, nothing against the brand (and I LOVE my boat) but I know I want to move to a luxury-ish CC next, but the prices are insane. The equivalent of my model has increased from $64K to $81K in five model years (not to mention I paid a lot less than MSRP) - there is little to show for it, except an extra half a foot, a nicer screen, and a niftier swim platform. Hardly seems worth an extra 25% in fairly short order.

I can’t blame Yamaha for trying to make as much money out of the situation as they can, especially since they’re likely moving a lower volume of units, but its astonishing. There are now 25 footers over a hundred grand. That pricetag opens up a whole new echelon of competition, all of which is nicer on nearly every level with the exception of ‘jet safety’, which is pretty dubious. Once things calm down, I wonder if Yamaha will join other brands in offering deep discounts off MSRP.

Just my two cents, worth less than ya paid for them.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Glad you enjoy your boat!

The 215 ID is probably my favorite Scarab, as I really like the cockpit layout!.

I don't know how people put up with the Yamaha pre-order process. I understand their want to keep their dealers happy, but there should be a national list and some idea when a boat might be delivered.

Jim

 

[captras]

As much as I love my Yamaha, I can totally understand what you are saying. They are pricing themselves out of the market to some extent. My 2016 to a comparable 2021 has gone up $20,000+....thats about a 30% increase. I could not afford to buy a new boat now. One of the big advantages to the Yamaha was their price......yes they didnt deal, but they were still less money. Their inability to keep up to demand, yet willingness to string people along with orders is discouraging I am sure. If I was looking I too would look at others, although I would stay in the jet boat realm. I honestly, however, think that Yamaha's Achilles heel is their customer service! It is THE worst. Not the individual dealerships, because I have had great experience with them, but dealing directly with Yamaha is terrible. The either ignore your calls, or promise to get back and never do. I dont regret my purchase, and still think they are great boats, with great features not available on other models. However, the gap is narrowing! Yamaha better wake up, or they will find themselves following rather than leading!

 

[the MfM]

As much as I love my Yamaha, I can totally understand what you are saying. They are pricing themselves out of the market to some extent. My 2016 to a comparable 2021 has gone up $20,000+....thats about a 30% increase. I could not afford to buy a new boat now. One of the big advantages to the Yamaha was their price......yes they didnt deal, but they were still less money. Their inability to keep up to demand, yet willingness to string people along with orders is discouraging I am sure. If I was looking I too would look at others, although I would stay in the jet boat realm. I honestly, however, think that Yamaha's Achilles heel is their customer service! It is THE worst. Not the individual dealerships, because I have had great experience with them, but dealing directly with Yamaha is terrible. The either ignore your calls, or promise to get back and never do. I dont regret my purchase, and still think they are great boats, with great features not available on other models. However, the gap is narrowing! Yamaha better wake up, or they will find themselves following rather than leading!

@Yamaha

 

[dwillson]

How was the Cobalt? I had my eye on a 2020 CS23 but when my wife got wind of the price she said Hell No. My 212S was half the price. Glad you're liking the Scarab, I would keep it after reading your post.

The Cobalt I owned was hands down the best built and nicest boat I have ever owned. It was built like a tank, and the upholstery as durable as it gets. Fit and finish on that boat was amazing. Only reason I didn't keep it is because we launch on some pretty shallow water at times and I couldn't launch it at a few places. Great boat though and it was hard to let go.

 

[dwillson]

Glad you enjoy your boat!

The 215 ID is probably my favorite Scarab, as I really like the cockpit layout!.

I don't know how people put up with the Yamaha pre-order process. I understand their want to keep their dealers happy, but there should be a national list and some idea when a boat might be delivered.

Jim

I am done with it. When I bought my AR195 in 2016 I walked into the dealership in August and left with the boat. Wow, how things have changed in 5 years. I am over the Yamaha process.

 

[biffdotorg]

Why in all of these threads does everyone feel this is Yamaha only? Every mfg has had shortages in parts and missed deliveries over the past 18 months. For the very same reason, I didn't replace my Sierra Denali this spring, I could not get one. For the same reason I didn't buy a new Polaris General, and went used, I could not get one.

Polaris SXS folks have had orders in for over 8 months only to be cancelled, or replaced with 2022 builds at higher prices. And that is true in almost every powersport maker. Not to mention all the other things associated with these sports. My dock/lift guy is taking orders on 2022 stock, that will not ship until March/April. Hell, I waited three months for a Chinese sourced power cord to take delivery of a shoreline Hydro Sweep!! And the darn thing is made in my home state of MN!

So the mfg will have a limited run of the next year. And what is the biggest thing buyers are bitching about, lack of products, due to overseas production. Well, someone starts sourcing parts domestically, and the cost goes up. Do you want to bitch about a boat at a higher price, or do you want to bitch about ordering another boat that will not be delivered?

Yamaha and every other MFG has realized, that the folks with the financial capacity to purchase, will pay more to get it and enjoy it. So think about what you are crying about, or at least think about what you may have asked for, as you are probably getting it. And they probably only raised prices slightly more than the average yearly increase due to costs. (have you priced anything mfg related in the last year?)

Folks that cry about sourcing overseas out of one side of their mouth, and then cry about higher prices when they actually start producing once they have found new sources should check themselves. Because until there is a huge inventory of unsold boats on dealer lots, the mfg will be setting the price at whatever the customer will pay.

Am I in the market for a 100K boat, nope. But it's obvious that there are plenty of folks that are. You could all join hands and agree not to place deposits on 2022's, and Yamaha may consider dropping the price. Oh, nobody wants to do that, it was worth a shot.

 

[dwillson]

Why in all of these threads does everyone feel this is Yamaha only? Every mfg has had shortages in parts and missed deliveries over the past 18 months. For the very same reason, I didn't replace my Sierra Denali this spring, I could not get one. For the same reason I didn't buy a new Polaris General, and went used, I could not get one.

Polaris SXS folks have had orders in for over 8 months only to be cancelled, or replaced with 2022 builds at higher prices. And that is true in almost every powersport maker. Not to mention all the other things associated with these sports. My dock/lift guy is taking orders on 2022 stock, that will not ship until March/April. Hell, I waited three months for a Chinese sourced power cord to take delivery of a shoreline Hydro Sweep!! And the darn thing is made in my home state of MN!

So the mfg will have a limited run of the next year. And what is the biggest thing buyers are bitching about, lack of products, due to overseas production. Well, someone starts sourcing parts domestically, and the cost goes up. Do you want to bitch about a boat at a higher price, or do you want to bitch about ordering another boat that will not be delivered?

Yamaha and every other MFG has realized, that the folks with the financial capacity to purchase, will pay more to get it and enjoy it. So think about what you are crying about, or at least think about what you may have asked for, as you are probably getting it. And they probably only raised prices slightly more than the average yearly increase due to costs. (have you priced anything mfg related in the last year?)

Folks that cry about sourcing overseas out of one side of their mouth, and then cry about higher prices when they actually start producing once they have found new sources should check themselves. Because until there is a huge inventory of unsold boats on dealer lots, the mfg will be setting the price at whatever the customer will pay.

Am I in the market for a 100K boat, nope. But it's obvious that there are plenty of folks that are. You could all join hands and agree not to place deposits on 2022's, and Yamaha may consider dropping the price. Oh, nobody wants to do that, it was worth a shot.

I agree with a lot of your points, however, Yamaha's build quality and quality control are not keeping up with the price of the boats. They are basic boats at BEST. They serve a purpose for sure, but their prices are rising rapidly with nothing to support it other than supply chain changes. They build their following by getting people on the water at a decent price with jet propulsion (safer and less draft). Their hull construction and gelcoat are no better than a Bayliner. They have built a cult following that allows them to get away with it, so I don't blame them. But to pay the prices they are charging this year, for what you get, is insane.

 

[Lake bum daddy]

I will try to make this as brief as possible....

I am a prior 2017 AR195 owner. I loved that boat and owned it 3 seasons until I fell in love with Yamaha's first 195S model. I sold my AR195 and put an order in for a 195S pre-COVID. My 195S never came in that year (summer of 2020). I ended up purchasing 2018 Cobalt 200S and kept that boat for one Summer. I sold the Cobalt last September and placed another Yamaha order for a 212SD. This time I placed my order in September. My 212SD was not manufactured or delivered either. I was lucky enough to visit a Scarab dealer her in Michigan on the day they received what was supposed to be a dealer demo (215 ID). The dealer decided that morning to sell the boat given the shortage instead of keeping it as his demo all summer. Not sure if I was really sold on the boat, or if I was just desperate for something to get on the water, but I placed a deposit on it that day.

3 months later and I have to say this Scarab is winning me over. I now have close to 20 hours on the engines (twin 250hp) and this thing runs smoother and quieter than my previous AR195. It is much quieter...we can have a conversation on the boat cruising at 20mph without yelling. The swim platform is leaps and bounds above the Yamaha. The interior appointments are a little better (although not as much as many believe). The seat cushions are thicker than Yamaha and flat out more comfortable. Both captains chairs have flip up bolsters (doesn't seem like a big deal, but we pretty much exclusively ride in captains chairs with the bolsters up). There are more advantages to the Scarab, but I will stop there for now.

In all honesty, I have wrestled with selling the Scarab to place another Yamaha order this year for a 212SD. Three things have kept me from doing this: (1) I am growing to love this Scarab more and more by the day, (2) there are not guarantees my Yamaha order will come in, and (3) Yamaha's 2022 price increases do not justify the product you are getting. One of Yamaha's big draws was the price. Well, their price is no longer that big of a plus in their column.

If you have been hesitant to look into a Scarab because of Yamaha's dominance in the industry, I would encourage you to at least look. I will also say my Scarab dealer has been super responsive and helpful (1000 times more than my Yamaha dealer). That is another reason I am keeping the Scarab. I can take it in for service and have it back within 48 hours. My Yamaha dealer would want my boat for 2 weeks. Hell, the boating season in Michigan is only 3 months.

Anyway, with Yamaha's ridiculous price increases I would encourage anyone in the market for a jet boat to shop around.

We strongly considered a Scarab 255ID, but ultimately made our deposit on a Yamaha 255xe

 

[biffdotorg]

I agree with a lot of your points, however, Yamaha's build quality and quality control are not keeping up with the price of the boats. They are basic boats at BEST. They serve a purpose for sure, but their prices are rising rapidly with nothing to support it other than supply chain changes. They build their following by getting people on the water at a decent price with jet propulsion (safer and less draft). Their hull construction and gelcoat are no better than a Bayliner. They have built a cult following that allows them to get away with it, so I don't blame them. But to pay the prices they are charging this year, for what you get, is insane.

I would agree with that completely. And to no surprise, the guys on the Polaris General forum are singing a very similar song. They are asking about build quality as well.

It would be good to hear the actual figures, as do you suppose when someone waits for months for something, and then pays a premium price, they are maybe even more hyper critical to build quality and delivery condition and come to forums like this much more often, rather than just working with the dealer to make it right?

Don't let me downplay the quality, as there are plenty here that can attest to it. But what is the actual ratio to boats going out the door?

And when you say, "But to pay the prices they are charging this year, for what you get, is insane." And yet people are doing it. And if they were only selling to veteran Yamaha owners, 1. The buyer would know what to look for upon delivery 2. They probably have a good relationship with the dealer and it would never leave the lot till perfect 3. The typical first time buyer these days are not face to face problem solvers. They will hit the interwebs way before making the drive across town, or across the state to talk to the folks that can actually make it right.

So I feel the amount of folks on forums like this has increased greatly, and many times asking questions before they go back to the dealer. And I'm good with that, as I too did the same, if anything, just so that I could talk more intelligently when I am with the dealer. But it still goes back to the source that can make it right. And if they cannot, so be it. We have a legit issue, that "yamaha should know about as it was reported properly" and the quantity of issues is documented, and not just over inflated online.

I could always be wrong. But I do chuckle when an obvious warranty or delivery issue is reported by one person on two Yamaha boat forums, a generic boating forum, 4 yamaha boating facebook groups, 3 generic boating facebook groups, and now looks like 9 people have the same issue, when it's just one, asking if his dealer or Yamaha should be fixing this for him. That's good humor right there. And it's not an exaggeration, as we have all seen them copy/pasted in 4 threads alone on this forum before, let alone anywhere else.

 

[dwillson]

We strongly considered a Scarab 255ID, but ultimately made our deposit on a Yamaha 255xe

I definitely like the 25 foot Yamaha better than the 25 foot Scarab.

 

[Seattle-Wind]

@dwillson, how fun to drive is your new Scarab compared to your AR195? How does the handling response at slow speeds and high speeds compare? Our previous boat was a BRP powered SeaDoo (Scarab is basically the new SeaDoo boat line) and it was an absolute blast to drive, so responsive at all speeds. Our AR190 by comparison is an absolute dog, so lethargic to do any turning at all speeds (yes I have Cobra Jet Fins). And the Yamaha engine is so loud and makes a really unpleasant sound compared to the SeaDoo engine.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Why in all of these threads does everyone feel this is Yamaha only? Every mfg has had shortages in parts and missed deliveries over the past 18 months. For the very same reason, I didn't replace my Sierra Denali this spring, I could not get one. For the same reason I didn't buy a new Polaris General, and went used, I could not get one.

Polaris SXS folks have had orders in for over 8 months only to be cancelled, or replaced with 2022 builds at higher prices. And that is true in almost every powersport maker. Not to mention all the other things associated with these sports. My dock/lift guy is taking orders on 2022 stock, that will not ship until March/April. Hell, I waited three months for a Chinese sourced power cord to take delivery of a shoreline Hydro Sweep!! And the darn thing is made in my home state of MN!

So the mfg will have a limited run of the next year. And what is the biggest thing buyers are bitching about, lack of products, due to overseas production. Well, someone starts sourcing parts domestically, and the cost goes up. Do you want to bitch about a boat at a higher price, or do you want to bitch about ordering another boat that will not be delivered?

Yamaha and every other MFG has realized, that the folks with the financial capacity to purchase, will pay more to get it and enjoy it. So think about what you are crying about, or at least think about what you may have asked for, as you are probably getting it. And they probably only raised prices slightly more than the average yearly increase due to costs. (have you priced anything mfg related in the last year?)

Folks that cry about sourcing overseas out of one side of their mouth, and then cry about higher prices when they actually start producing once they have found new sources should check themselves. Because until there is a huge inventory of unsold boats on dealer lots, the mfg will be setting the price at whatever the customer will pay.

Am I in the market for a 100K boat, nope. But it's obvious that there are plenty of folks that are. You could all join hands and agree not to place deposits on 2022's, and Yamaha may consider dropping the price. Oh, nobody wants to do that, it was worth a shot.

I respect your opinion, but mine is that a customer should have a build slot WITH Yamaha. I understand wanting to keep your dealers happy, but there doesn't appear to be any intent to keep the customers happy. I do not understand why Yamaha CANCELS customer pre-orders. Okay, so your boat spills over into the next year, why cancel a contract and not give the customer a choice to roll their contract over into a new boat or not (without starting at the bottom of some dealer list once again). It's insane to have a boat on pre-order, get cancelled, place another pre-order, get a boat next month or in nine months or get cancelled again, as we have heard on this forum.

Jim

 

[Lake bum daddy]

Our salesman just got information that the pre-ordered 2022 models should be delivered Jan-Feb, but who knows for sure

 

[the MfM]

Our salesman just got information that the pre-ordered 2022 models should be delivered Jan-Feb, but who knows for sure

Another thread says 22s are already being canceled :dunno:

 

[biffdotorg]

I respect your opinion, but mine is that a customer should have a build slot WITH Yamaha. I understand wanting to keep your dealers happy, but there doesn't appear to be any intent to keep the customers happy. I do not understand why Yamaha CANCELS customer pre-orders. Okay, so your boat spills over into the next year, why cancel a contract and not give the customer a choice to roll their contract over into a new boat or not (without starting at the bottom of some dealer list once again). It's insane to have a boat on pre-order, get cancelled, place another pre-order, get a boat next month or in nine months or get cancelled again, as we have heard on this forum.

Jim

I hear what you are saying, and this is common with the polaris orders as well. Folks were questioning the pre-order process and I am questioning where the ball is dropped. Unlike Yamaha, Polaris does have "build slots" and you get notification from the factory when your machine is next to hit the line, when it ships to the dealer, and when you can expect to take delivery given adequate dealer prep. My buddy has purchased two 2021 Polaris Rangers in the last year. And that is exactly how his second Ranger order happened. The updates came from the mother ship, and not the dealer. With these Yamaha orders, everyone is hitting the dealer up and all they can do is hold their hands in the air. During COVID, there was no legit answer to share. With the 2022's, it's a different story.

I feel there are different reasons depending on the dealer, as it's shady, very shady either way. I have heard some are dealer pre-orders prior to them actually placing their order with Yamaha. So they order what they have sold pre-orders on. Others are orders, that are placed on what the dealer has pre-ordered. So timing is key to explain that.

For those that said, they ordered a 2022 back in April, let's be real, that was not an order with Yamaha, as the dealer is taking their own pre-order based on what they want to order from Yamaha. For those placing an order after the release of colors and models, there is a better chance that it is a pre-order based on dealer stock coming in from Yamaha. So it would be subject to availability, or cancellations.

And those that say their 2022 order has been cancelled, there are all sorts of reasons why that may happen, but if any veteran were to guess, it was probably not cancelled by Yamaha. You know that dealer was acting like and airline that overbooked a flight, and now has to step back and see who can really take delivery of the stock they have coming in. Again, I could be wrong, but there is some dealer game play going on here for sure.

How many put $1000 down on vaporware, not knowing price or color? You know, those were not orders placed to Yamaha, but in actuality, were hold spots for what the dealer placed once they could. And the dealer had no idea, at the time, what their allocation was, and probably took $1000 from every one they "thought" they were going to be allocated for, give or take a few in case of cancellations. And once they actually got shipping notice from Yamaha, they started calling customers, until the allocation was all spoken for, and then started telling customers that their "order" got cancelled. But only after they got firm commitment from the customers of their allocation. It's shady, but you know that is what is happening.

 

[jcb1977]

@dwillson, how fun to drive is your new Scarab compared to your AR195? How does the handling response at slow speeds and high speeds compare? Our previous boat was a BRP powered SeaDoo (Scarab is basically the new SeaDoo boat line) and it was an absolute blast to drive, so responsive at all speeds. Our AR190 by comparison is an absolute dog, so lethargic to do any turning at all speeds (yes I have Cobra Jet Fins). And the Yamaha engine is so loud and makes a really unpleasant sound compared to the SeaDoo engine.

One thing I don't understand about the scarab's is how they drive in reverse? is it true that it is opposite of Yamaha.....so if you turn the wheel to Starboard in reverse, the stern would would move to the Port side? that would be hard to get used to it.

 

[Lake bum daddy]

My dealer advised us not to place our deposit until the August 17 release of color and pricing and Yamaha predetermined date to begin taking orders.