ROTAX ENGINE

[Simon Bedard]

There are over half a million Rotax engines on the water today. How's that for reliability?

 

[HawkTX]

How many of them need a tow to shore? HA!!!! Just kidding!!!!

 

[dbrunone]

Thats a lot of engines, sure, but it doesn't say much about reliability....

Not saying they are or are not reliable, its just not logical to correlate the two. Its like saying "This piano has 88 keys, therefore it must play in tune". Hmmm

For example, what if a guy completely blew one engine per week, and he always replaced that engine with a new one? The 500k number wouldn't change but reliability would surely be affected.

 

[Ronnie]

Anyone know how many mr1 (992 cc, 1,052 cc) and 1,812 cc yamaha motors are on the water currently? What about how many have put put in service to date?

 

[Murf'n'surf]

I have had many discussions with PWC dealer mechanics about what they see on a daily basis and what they would buy after knowing the inside scoop on Yamaha versus BRP. All of them say that they would put their money in Yamaha's court. BRP builds a sexier and faster product and is more appealing to the buyers.

Over the last 13 years, I have been responsible for upkeep on 22 Seadoo PWCs (over 13 years not at once). I can tell you that BRP reliability has been dramatically increased since 2001 and that they keep pushing the envelope on HP and features that keep the product fresher than Yamaha. I still see more failures and alarms that require dealer visits on BRP than my network of guys who maintain Yamahas.

Bottom line? Yami and BRP are in the same game but focus on different aspects and appeal to different crowds. They are both great products and each have issues that will require time and money. My comments above are from my experience and may differ from the next guy.

Jetboaters.net wants ALL jetboaters to unite and enjoy their toys as a group and discuss our hobby regardless of who makes the motors. I can't wait to drive a Scarab to be totally honest!!

 

[itsdgm]

I love my rotax engines.


Seriously though, I've had great success with all of the rotax engines that I've owned. From a 95 SeaDoo SPX to our 98 Sportster 1800 and my Go Kart engines. Rotax engines have yet to let me down. All of mine were 2 strokes so maintenance was a bit higher than my Yamaha 4 strokes, but that because they're 2 vs 4 stroke. I've never owned a Yamaha 2 stroke, but they did have a checkered past with oil line failures. I'm sure they are great engines, but a poor design of the cheapest part of the engine would cause catastrophic engine failure. So either way no manufacture is perfect. I don't have any firsthand experience with the newer 4 stroke Rotax engines but hopefully they prove to be reliable too.

 

[Aces_Over_Kings]

I love my Speedster 150 (first boat!), the engine has treated me well so far, and I'm leaning towards a Scarab 195/215 HOI as my next.

So I like the rotax powerplant and have some 'lost my boat virginity' fondness and loyalty to Sea-Doo/BRP/Rotax.

But I have to agree that the quantity of engines produced has no bearing on their reliability.

 

[jdonalds]

I've posted many times about poor reliability of SeaDoo PWC, but never once did I say anything negative about rotax engines.

My experience comes from nine years as a member of a 100+ jet ski club of Southern California. I was also friends with the owner of the PWC rental outfit in Santa Barbara who switched from SeaDoo to Yamaha and Honda due to poor SeaDoo reliability costs. In years of riding I was never on a ride with several other club members where a ski failure occurred that wasn't a SeaDoo. Not one time did a Honda, Yamaha, or Kawasaki (heck even a few Polaris skis either) fail. I would say that two to four times a year our club ride would either be held up or terminated by the failure of a SeaDoo. But every time it was something other than the actual engine mechanics.

In most cases it was a non-engine mechanical failure or an electrical failure. It was never because of the pistons, rings, valves, crankshaft, or other mechanical parts of the engine. But the ECU, simple electrical connectors, switches, or other electrical problems were by far the biggest failures. Most of the time failures were on stock skis but sometimes the ski had been modified which added to the problems. I will also add that I don't remember a single club ride where any ski failed on fresh water. All SeaDoo problem in my memory were on salt water. Perhaps the electrical systems of the non SeaDoo skis are better designed to keep moisture out of the electrical systems. On the other hand about 75% of the club rides I participated in were on the ocean.

It seems SeaDoo skis are easy to modify for the purpose of making them go faster. Perhaps it is the higher volume sold that contributes to the plethora of after-market parts being available. But SeaDoo seems to be the ski of choice for racing.

It also seemed to me (just guessing here) that SeaDoo put more energy into new features than reliability. Also it seems SeaDoo tends to push their designs to the limit while the other major vendors de-tune and limit their engine performance to err on the side of reliability.

The club started in 2005 at which time about 1/2 of the members had SeaDoos. By 2014 about 80% are Yamaha or Kawasaki skis with the remaining 20% SeaDoo. The club now has about 130 members and rides almost every weekend.

My good friend and club member Tom on his SeaDoo about 1/2 mile off Catalina Island off the coast of Southern California. Tom had more than one ski failure that held up club rides over the years.

 

[MikeyL]

My SeaDoo's AND Especially the IBR feature are THE BOMB !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Riding them heavily since 2007 and have not experienced ANY problems !
Ride mine almost daily. 'Jes for FUN !
'Nuff said. The pundits who wanna bash BRP powerplants ....... Do THEY ride every day ?
I own a LOT of "Yamaha products" and promote them heavily !
If my CHAP dealer had actually for once taken his head outta his a**, I woulda owned a CHAP right now, and traded in my 242 LS jet boat for the Vortex. Why ? Because Chap had the design "right" ... AND Chap IS using BRP powerplants something I actually wanted.

Well, wudya know ? Chap stumbles, doesn't release their 24 foot boat "in time," and Yamaha makes MAJOR mods/changes/improvements to their 24 foot line-up for whatever reason.
I do not care WHY Yamaha did it ....... Just that they did ........ And Voila !!!!!!!! My entire attitude has changed - Permanently.

More on that later. Life is kinda funny many times ..... and there are some interesting twists and turns that happen. We are enjoying one of those right now.
Best Wishes to all - Mikey Lulejian

PS - If you're confused right now ........... It's OKAY ! Cuz I stay that way. But I do LOVE my BRP Rotax powerplants, Make no doubt about that !

 

[Zarrella]

Sounds like this is no different than the Ford vs Chevy opinions. Even though we all know Ford wins that one!

 

[SilentShooter]

While I actually like the new yamaha SVHO power plant over the Rotax 1503 HO, the 1503 is still a great engine. I think the jet pump for the scarabs could be better designed and I prefer the open loop cooling of the yamaha over the rotax.

I have lots of friends that run sea doo's and they tend to run into more issues than the yamahas. Biggest is when we are dealing with seaweed. The sea doo's start to overheat as the heat exchanger gets blocked. Also the plastic wear ring has been an issue that is easily fixed with a SS ring but still the factory ring does suck. Motor wise once you start modding I really can't blame failures on BRP or Yamaha as you are not within designed parameters. Only thing that worries me on the Rotax is that they run very advanced timings to get the TQ numbers out of the smaller engine so when you are modding them detonation normally is what kills them.

 

[ScarabMike]

The Rotax 1503 engine is an engineering masterpiece, the only 4 stroke engine specifically designed for watercraft use, the only watercraft engine with a closed loop cooling system. It is now available in several variations from the new 135hp found in the 2006 GTI range right up to the wopping 215hp supercharged intercooled monster found in the SeadooRXP/RXT/GTX LTD and is also available in various Sea doo jet boats.

It has 1503cc 3 cylinder’s single overhead cam pushing 12 valves. The engine is a dry sump variety running with twin oil pumps and a tip over protection system to stop the oil from flowing to unwanted areas in the case of the watercraft being inverted. Valve timing is designed in such a way that every time you turn off your 4 tec equipped Sea doo the engine will stop with all 12 valves firmly closed to make water ingression almost impossible.

Reliability explained from other communities.
http://www.jetboating.net/jetboating/common/forums/threadview.aspx?forumid=4&page=2&threadid=15281

Rebuild parts site. (one of many)
http://www.4-tecperformance.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=18_10

Im not going to debate what engine is better, or what engine lasts longer. But if this thread is about the engine, then lets help the people that have it, not make this into a pissing contest.

@Simon Bedard You can make your points without making it sound like your claiming superiority over other engines. This forum consists of many manufacturers, and people are proud, and love their boats. Remember we own products from the new kids in town. Lets just show everyone more about our experiences, and help new and future Scarab owners learn from it. At the same time, we can open the minds of past owners, and people that have had issues with the Rotax, or clear the air about some of the myths about the engine if we can. Its still too early to pass judgement on the new catalyzed and updated 1503 engine.

 

[SilentShooter]

That is outdated info.. just FYI and marketing fluff for the most part.

 

[ScarabMike]

That is outdated info.. just FYI and marketing fluff for the most part.

Its not supposed to be. Just something to show as reference.

 

[Zarrella]

I like this! " in the case of the watercraft being inverted" I hate when that happens....lol

 

[SilentShooter]

I like this! " in the case of the watercraft being inverted" I hate when that happens....lol

Yea, if that happens in a boat then you have a lot of other things to worry about other than water in the engine.. But for a PWC that can be a daily occurrence

 

[0627Devildog]

I love my rotax engines.
View attachment 11815

Seriously though, I've had great success with all of the rotax engines that I've owned. From a 95 SeaDoo SPX to our 98 Sportster 1800 and my Go Kart engines. Rotax engines have yet to let me down. All of mine were 2 strokes so maintenance was a bit higher than my Yamaha 4 strokes, but that because they're 2 vs 4 stroke. I've never owned a Yamaha 2 stroke, but they did have a checkered past with oil line failures. I'm sure they are great engines, but a poor design of the cheapest part of the engine would cause catastrophic engine failure. So either way no manufacture is perfect. I don't have any firsthand experience with the newer 4 stroke Rotax engines but hopefully they prove to be reliable too.

Who's the ugly guy driving?

 

[0627Devildog]

My SeaDoo's AND Especially the IBR feature are THE BOMB !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Riding them heavily since 2007 and have not experienced ANY problems !
Ride mine almost daily. 'Jes for FUN !
'Nuff said. The pundits who wanna bash BRP powerplants ....... Do THEY ride every day ?
I own a LOT of "Yamaha products" and promote them heavily !
If my CHAP dealer had actually for once taken his head outta his a**, I woulda owned a CHAP right now, and traded in my 242 LS jet boat for the Vortex. Why ? Because Chap had the design "right" ... AND Chap IS using BRP powerplants something I actually wanted.

Well, wudya know ? Chap stumbles, doesn't release their 24 foot boat "in time," and Yamaha makes MAJOR mods/changes/improvements to their 24 foot line-up for whatever reason.
I do not care WHY Yamaha did it ....... Just that they did ........ And Voila !!!!!!!! My entire attitude has changed - Permanently.

More on that later. Life is kinda funny many times ..... and there are some interesting twists and turns that happen. We are enjoying one of those right now.
Best Wishes to all - Mikey Lulejian

PS - If you're confused right now ........... It's OKAY ! Cuz I stay that way. But I do LOVE my BRP Rotax powerplants, Make no doubt about that !

Mikey, you are the funniest cat out here man.

 

[0627Devildog]

All I will say is I never modded my 2000 Sea-Doo Sportster LE. . . . It was BONE stock until the day it disintegrated. Thats right, disintegrated. As anyone on here who knows me should be able to verify, I am METICULOUS in the care of my things. I am hoping the Yamaha Pwr Plants gives me better longevity and reliability than the Rotax did. As it left us stranded on MORE than one occasion. Which is actually the main reason I went with a boat that had twin screws. . . . (now I just gotta install those tow valves)

 

[Big Shasta]

(now I just gotta install those tow valves)

In the meantime just throw a couple of these onboard. Hose pinch clamps. I threw 2 of them in a heavy ziplock bag (to prevent rust) about 3 years ago and had to use one when my impeller bearing went out at the lake this summer. It was easy to install behind the engine and didn't hurt the hose one bit. I got mine at Mcmaster Carr. for something you don't use often, I think this covers me completely.