Second Round - 2015 AR240 JL Audio Stereo Upgrades

[ralphsmithiii]

I'm looking for some input while I also wait to hear back from @Earmark Marine regarding his thoughts regarding my 2nd round (small) upgrade path.

In January I installed (upgrade from factory) 6-MX650's: 4 in the factory locations and two mid-cabin and 1 10" IB Sub installed in the battery compartment wall facing the port side compartment. All of it is powered by an MX8/800 amp where the 6 MX650's have their own channel and the sub is using the last two bridged to power it. So far, other than some more fine tuning it's a massive upgrade over the stock system especially while cruising.

With that, our boat is going to be used 99% of the time parked at sand bars or keys, cruising to different sites, maybe some scuba dives and to go out to places to eat. Yesterday was an awesome day to get out on the water (here in Tampa, Florida) and the wife and I hit up a local spot called Honeymoon Island near Clearwater Beach, Florida. It's a decent size spot and dog friendly.

I backed in fairly close, dropped anchor, jumped out and pulled the boat within a few feet of the island and threw up the rear achor (shore spike) and we camped there for about 4 hours with our dog. The one thing I was looking to test was the following:

1 - Could you hear the stereo from the transom
2 - Did it sound "decent" and not project too loud to annoy/disturb others within common sense reason
3 - How loud volume wise would I have to turn the system up in order to hear it form the transom
4 - Repeat steps 1-3 if we where to hang out within a few feet give or take to the rear or the boat, say, 3 feet of water maybe on some floats or pool noodles versus sitting on the transom itself

With that, here are my observations:

1 - Yes, you can hear it from the transom including the sub-woofer
2 - It sounded "OK" but nothing to write home about. It was a night and day difference if I jumped into the boat itself in terms of sheer volume and sound quality. That little step-over hump to the transom area + the design of the boat has a major impact on this. You could barely hear it 10ft away on the actual sand key so no issues there even if someone was camped on the beach next to us, which was the case.
3 - I had it cranked up to 85% on the Connext screen give or take. In essence that means it's not operating at any sort of efficient rate (my logical-sh thoughts) as I had to power it much higher to get a decent sound at the transom. Where the gains are currently, it sounded like a night club while parked at 85% volume (50% I think gains on the amp) to give you an idea.
4 - Because you could hear it barely on the sand key about 10ft away being 1-2 feet behind the boat was similar to what it sounded like while sitting in the transom seats. Nothing exciting but being the type of person I am, I'd like to have just better sound back there even while casually conversing, floating, etc...

So here's what I'm trying to determine and I know that's a long-winded wind-up to the pitch =)

For those of you that have transom speakers (say 6.5's or 7.7)'s, how does it sound sitting there or behind the boat in the water? Originally I thought I really wanted to buy a set of JL 8.8 towers and call it a day, I'd have to purchase a M4/400 amp as well. I'm fairly certain I'm not going to pick up water sports although I'm sure we'll play around with maybe some tube's on a rare random occasion.

You can put MX650's or MX770's out back but I'd still need to figure out the amps. I'm thinking about going this route as I'm assuming having the speakers right there on the transom, while parked, would provide an upgrade similar to adding cockpit speakers. What I'm really interested in, how does it sound behind the boat while in the water hanging out. I could run a part of 6.5 (not sure if 7.7's) on the current M8/800 and move the single sub to a mono amp. I'm thinking for this I dont need an "M" series amp (unless someone tells me a reason otherwise) and do a MX300/1 (still IPX7 rated) and would be installed next to the M8/800 using the 2nd set of RCAs.

Going this route I think I can turn down the overall system quite a bit (we where there for 4+ hours with no issues on batteries) and control the sub with a M-RBC-1. Originally I thought about created two "zones" using two JL knobs and turning down the gain remotely on the interior setup and using the second knob for the rear transoms (or towers if I went that route). However, to do that, I would need to get a separate amp for just the rears (so maybe 7.7's + new amp MX280 which can put out 140w x2 into 4 ohms + volume knob) would make the most sense. Therefor I could have two knobs by the context, 1 for the interior + sub, 1 for the rears only) and when its sand bar time, turn down interior, turn up rears?

Oh, other thing I have to consider is: cut the seat cushions (I have no issues but have to find out the cost). But, is that + new rear speakers + new amp getting close to a set of towers (enclosure, mounts, amp) or is there still a massive cost difference. I'm hoping to get these answers from Odin.

 

[Benny Sibbitt]

I'm looking for some input while I also wait to hear back from @Earmark Marine regarding his thoughts regarding my 2nd round (small) upgrade path.

In January I installed (upgrade from factory) 6-MX650's: 4 in the factory locations and two mid-cabin and 1 10" IB Sub installed in the battery compartment wall facing the port side compartment. All of it is powered by an MX8/800 amp where the 6 MX650's have their own channel and the sub is using the last two bridged to power it. So far, other than some more fine tuning it's a massive upgrade over the stock system especially while cruising.

With that, our boat is going to be used 99% of the time parked at sand bars or keys, cruising to different sites, maybe some scuba dives and to go out to places to eat. Yesterday was an awesome day to get out on the water (here in Tampa, Florida) and the wife and I hit up a local spot called Honeymoon Island near Clearwater Beach, Florida. It's a decent size spot and dog friendly.

I backed in fairly close, dropped anchor, jumped out and pulled the boat within a few feet of the island and threw up the rear achor (shore spike) and we camped there for about 4 hours with our dog. The one thing I was looking to test was the following:

1 - Could you hear the stereo from the transom
2 - Did it sound "decent" and not project too loud to annoy/disturb others within common sense reason
3 - How loud volume wise would I have to turn the system up in order to hear it form the transom
4 - Repeat steps 1-3 if we where to hang out within a few feet give or take to the rear or the boat, say, 3 feet of water maybe on some floats or pool noodles versus sitting on the transom itself

With that, here are my observations:

1 - Yes, you can hear it from the transom including the sub-woofer
2 - It sounded "OK" but nothing to write home about. It was a night and day difference if I jumped into the boat itself in terms of sheer volume and sound quality. That little step-over hump to the transom area + the design of the boat has a major impact on this. You could barely hear it 10ft away on the actual sand key so no issues there even if someone was camped on the beach next to us, which was the case.
3 - I had it cranked up to 85% on the Connext screen give or take. In essence that means it's not operating at any sort of efficient rate (my logical-sh thoughts) as I had to power it much higher to get a decent sound at the transom. Where the gains are currently, it sounded like a night club while parked at 85% volume (50% I think gains on the amp) to give you an idea.
4 - Because you could hear it barely on the sand key about 10ft away being 1-2 feet behind the boat was similar to what it sounded like while sitting in the transom seats. Nothing exciting but being the type of person I am, I'd like to have just better sound back there even while casually conversing, floating, etc...

So here's what I'm trying to determine and I know that's a long-winded wind-up to the pitch =)

For those of you that have transom speakers (say 6.5's or 7.7)'s, how does it sound sitting there or behind the boat in the water? Originally I thought I really wanted to buy a set of JL 8.8 towers and call it a day, I'd have to purchase a M4/400 amp as well. I'm fairly certain I'm not going to pick up water sports although I'm sure we'll play around with maybe some tube's on a rare random occasion.

You can put MX650's or MX770's out back but I'd still need to figure out the amps. I'm thinking about going this route as I'm assuming having the speakers right there on the transom, while parked, would provide an upgrade similar to adding cockpit speakers. What I'm really interested in, how does it sound behind the boat while in the water hanging out. I could run a part of 6.5 (not sure if 7.7's) on the current M8/800 and move the single sub to a mono amp. I'm thinking for this I dont need an "M" series amp (unless someone tells me a reason otherwise) and do a MX300/1 (still IPX7 rated) and would be installed next to the M8/800 using the 2nd set of RCAs.

Going this route I think I can turn down the overall system quite a bit (we where there for 4+ hours with no issues on batteries) and control the sub with a M-RBC-1. Originally I thought about created two "zones" using two JL knobs and turning down the gain remotely on the interior setup and using the second knob for the rear transoms (or towers if I went that route). However, to do that, I would need to get a separate amp for just the rears (so maybe 7.7's + new amp MX280 which can put out 140w x2 into 4 ohms + volume knob) would make the most sense. Therefor I could have two knobs by the context, 1 for the interior + sub, 1 for the rears only) and when its sand bar time, turn down interior, turn up rears?

Oh, other thing I have to consider is: cut the seat cushions (I have no issues but have to find out the cost). But, is that + new rear speakers + new amp getting close to a set of towers (enclosure, mounts, amp) or is there still a massive cost difference. I'm hoping to get these answers from Odin.

you are right, you need either tower speakers or transom speaker to hear when at the sandbar - tower speakers would be better
I have a 242LS and have MX770's on the transom and tower speakers
I am going switch out the transom for M series vs the MX to get the bigger tweeter - I notice when I turn up really loud it''s not as clear as like
I am also looking at adding individual volume knobs to each amp or a Ws-420BT to separate all interior boat speaker from my towers and transom speakers - like you said I want to turn down interior speakers while beaching to save battier power then vice versa when cruising
I have 3 amps pushing all speakers / 2 m600 and 1 m200

 

[Bluewater272]

We had transom speakers from the factory, and they were good enough to suffice for your 'floating behind the boat' scenario, but not any meaningful impact on the sandbar listening without having to crank the boat. We added a pair of tower speakers to help with the sandbar scenario.

There are more elegant ways to do this (like through the WS420BT), however for my purposes I have two amps. 8ch for the in-boat speakers, and a separate 4ch for the tower speakers. 8ch amp is on the front RCAs, 4ch on the rear RCAs. I just fade between front and back for the desired distribution to in-boat or tower speakers.

 

[ralphsmithiii]

you are right, you need either tower speakers or transom speaker to hear when at the sandbar - tower speakers would be better
I have a 242LS and have MX770's on the transom and tower speakers
I am going switch out the transom for M series vs the MX to get the bigger tweeter - I notice when I turn up really loud it''s not as clear as like
I am also looking at adding individual volume knobs to each amp or a Ws-420BT to separate all interior boat speaker from my towers and transom speakers - like you said I want to turn down interior speakers while beaching to save battier power then vice versa when cruising
I have 3 amps pushing all speakers / 2 m600 and 1 m200

Hmm....when you say you turn it really loud and its not as clear as as you like, are you referring to from being on the sand bar or behind the boat? I have no real experience yet with having the boat out and hanging out at the sand bars other than the two times I mentioned up top. However, I'm trying to guess if that's ever going to be that instance. We did just buy two beach chairs for putting in shallow water on the sand but still withing maybe 10-15ft of the boat. At that range I dont expect to be able to have a loud quality sounding rear setup without having towers.

Suppose I'll wait and see what kind of deals may pop up on towers and I'm not opposed to having both I've just read that its often overkill for a non-wake/tubing user and towers would cover everything I'd ever want and skip the transoms. But, I don't have to spend extra money just because if the rear deck checks the boxes.

 

[ralphsmithiii]

We had transom speakers from the factory, and they were good enough to suffice for your 'floating behind the boat' scenario, but not any meaningful impact on the sandbar listening without having to crank the boat. We added a pair of tower speakers to help with the sandbar scenario.

There are more elegant ways to do this (like through the WS420BT), however for my purposes I have two amps. 8ch for the in-boat speakers, and a separate 4ch for the tower speakers. 8ch amp is on the front RCAs, 4ch on the rear RCAs. I just fade between front and back for the desired distribution to in-boat or tower speakers.

This helps out a ton, too. I forgot about fading versus using the JL knobs. Since I'll only being running two amps then it makes for a cleaning setup although I'm not opposed to the analog knobs either. If anything I could use one of the knobs to control the bass (which has crossed my mind a small hand full of times while out tuning the system).

I wanted to consider the WS420 too but so far I've heard people say you may see feedback on the line with the additional DSP hooked-up. Makes me wonder if these units have crappy PSU's similar to what @Mainah discovered in his custom DSP setup.

So far it looks like it's going to cost roughly $650 for all the parts to installed a set of MX650's, MX240x4 plus wiring, distribution block, redoing the rear seat cushions to use the factory cut-out spot (I saw you could squeeze them in without cutting but I think I'd prefer to use the factory spot) and that's me doing the speaker and amp install.

Towers + enclosure + swivel mounts + MX4/400 + etc is north of $1600 but no cushions to cut ($100-$200 max locally).

Decisions...decisions.

 

[Benny Sibbitt]

When I say not as clear as I like, I have it cranked up pretty loud, louder than most
when I am at the sandbar I can hear with no problems, even walk away and still hear it
sometimes i like to drown out the ski boats full of teenage kids so i crank up pretty loud

 

[Dean P]

@ralphsmithiii I would definitely add 8" full range tower speakers to the mix. And upgrade the transom to full range as well. Consider refurbished to save $$. I've purchased a lot from Creative Audio.

 

[Dean P]

Almost forgot, make sure you have minimum of 2 batteries and at least one is deep cell. I have 2 deep cell batteries on mine.

 

[ralphsmithiii]

@ralphsmithiii I would definitely add 8" full range tower speakers to the mix. And upgrade the transom to full range as well. Consider refurbished to save $$. I've purchased a lot from Creative Audio.

This place is in my backyard-ish. Pretty decent deals on refurb amps for sure.

 

[Drift Away]

I'm looking for some input while I also wait to hear back from @Earmark Marine regarding his thoughts regarding my 2nd round (small) upgrade path.

In January I installed (upgrade from factory) 6-MX650's: 4 in the factory locations and two mid-cabin and 1 10" IB Sub installed in the battery compartment wall facing the port side compartment. All of it is powered by an MX8/800 amp where the 6 MX650's have their own channel and the sub is using the last two bridged to power it. So far, other than some more fine tuning it's a massive upgrade over the stock system especially while cruising.

With that, our boat is going to be used 99% of the time parked at sand bars or keys, cruising to different sites, maybe some scuba dives and to go out to places to eat. Yesterday was an awesome day to get out on the water (here in Tampa, Florida) and the wife and I hit up a local spot called Honeymoon Island near Clearwater Beach, Florida. It's a decent size spot and dog friendly.

I backed in fairly close, dropped anchor, jumped out and pulled the boat within a few feet of the island and threw up the rear achor (shore spike) and we camped there for about 4 hours with our dog. The one thing I was looking to test was the following:

1 - Could you hear the stereo from the transom
2 - Did it sound "decent" and not project too loud to annoy/disturb others within common sense reason
3 - How loud volume wise would I have to turn the system up in order to hear it form the transom
4 - Repeat steps 1-3 if we where to hang out within a few feet give or take to the rear or the boat, say, 3 feet of water maybe on some floats or pool noodles versus sitting on the transom itself

With that, here are my observations:

1 - Yes, you can hear it from the transom including the sub-woofer
2 - It sounded "OK" but nothing to write home about. It was a night and day difference if I jumped into the boat itself in terms of sheer volume and sound quality. That little step-over hump to the transom area + the design of the boat has a major impact on this. You could barely hear it 10ft away on the actual sand key so no issues there even if someone was camped on the beach next to us, which was the case.
3 - I had it cranked up to 85% on the Connext screen give or take. In essence that means it's not operating at any sort of efficient rate (my logical-sh thoughts) as I had to power it much higher to get a decent sound at the transom. Where the gains are currently, it sounded like a night club while parked at 85% volume (50% I think gains on the amp) to give you an idea.
4 - Because you could hear it barely on the sand key about 10ft away being 1-2 feet behind the boat was similar to what it sounded like while sitting in the transom seats. Nothing exciting but being the type of person I am, I'd like to have just better sound back there even while casually conversing, floating, etc...

So here's what I'm trying to determine and I know that's a long-winded wind-up to the pitch =)

For those of you that have transom speakers (say 6.5's or 7.7)'s, how does it sound sitting there or behind the boat in the water? Originally I thought I really wanted to buy a set of JL 8.8 towers and call it a day, I'd have to purchase a M4/400 amp as well. I'm fairly certain I'm not going to pick up water sports although I'm sure we'll play around with maybe some tube's on a rare random occasion.

You can put MX650's or MX770's out back but I'd still need to figure out the amps. I'm thinking about going this route as I'm assuming having the speakers right there on the transom, while parked, would provide an upgrade similar to adding cockpit speakers. What I'm really interested in, how does it sound behind the boat while in the water hanging out. I could run a part of 6.5 (not sure if 7.7's) on the current M8/800 and move the single sub to a mono amp. I'm thinking for this I dont need an "M" series amp (unless someone tells me a reason otherwise) and do a MX300/1 (still IPX7 rated) and would be installed next to the M8/800 using the 2nd set of RCAs.

Going this route I think I can turn down the overall system quite a bit (we where there for 4+ hours with no issues on batteries) and control the sub with a M-RBC-1. Originally I thought about created two "zones" using two JL knobs and turning down the gain remotely on the interior setup and using the second knob for the rear transoms (or towers if I went that route). However, to do that, I would need to get a separate amp for just the rears (so maybe 7.7's + new amp MX280 which can put out 140w x2 into 4 ohms + volume knob) would make the most sense. Therefor I could have two knobs by the context, 1 for the interior + sub, 1 for the rears only) and when its sand bar time, turn down interior, turn up rears?

Oh, other thing I have to consider is: cut the seat cushions (I have no issues but have to find out the cost). But, is that + new rear speakers + new amp getting close to a set of towers (enclosure, mounts, amp) or is there still a massive cost difference. I'm hoping to get these answers from Odin.

Ask @wallacerb if you put those 8.8s on the tower dont waste your money on 7.7s for the swimdeck. Now that being said. You will need another amp and another battery most likely. Running at 85% will work those battries down after a few house even with the 8 channel. We go out to Anclote or 3 Rooker and i run about 40-60% all day no issues with 2 6 channel amps pushing 2 10s, 4 6.5s, 4 7.7s and 2 7.7 pods. Rob has the same thing but more amps and 4 8.8s. So he gets away with pushing about 30-50%.

 

[Drift Away]

Hmm....when you say you turn it really loud and its not as clear as as you like, are you referring to from being on the sand bar or behind the boat? I have no real experience yet with having the boat out and hanging out at the sand bars other than the two times I mentioned up top. However, I'm trying to guess if that's ever going to be that instance. We did just buy two beach chairs for putting in shallow water on the sand but still withing maybe 10-15ft of the boat. At that range I dont expect to be able to have a loud quality sounding rear setup without having towers.

Suppose I'll wait and see what kind of deals may pop up on towers and I'm not opposed to having both I've just read that its often overkill for a non-wake/tubing user and towers would cover everything I'd ever want and skip the transoms. But, I don't have to spend extra money just because if the rear deck checks the boxes.

I had the same problem getting sound out. So i cut two 7.7 on the swim deck, 2 7.7 pods flush mounted and 2 7.7s pointing back from the anchor locker. It gets the sound way the hell out.

 

[Dean P]

You will need another amp and another battery most likely.

Do you hook each amp to a battery?

 

[ThatJeepGuy]

I was hoping you chime in here @Drift Away

@ralphsmithiii these guys know how to put some sound out!

 

[ralphsmithiii]

I've seen @Drift Away 's setup, pretty nice. That's a ton more than what I'm looking for at the moment (more so budget wise) but it's got to be insane.

I'm really just trying to get a better sound (similar to in cabin with the 650's in term of clarity) but just outside the boat < 20ft way I'm thinking tops, 99% of the time. 880's I KNOW will do the trick. How about 770's for 1/3 the cost? Or back to swim deck speakers lol. I just dont want to go with swim decks and think, well crap, this is louder but does it sound good. Inside it sounds like a party with the sub cranking. I don't expect that outside the boat, although, I believe the larger 880's can produce some solid bass along with mids and highs whereas maybe the 770's cannot.

 

[ThatJeepGuy]

IMO 770 or 880 amped on the tower and there will be no mistaken that the party is behind the boat

 

[Drift Away]

Do you hook each amp to a battery?

I ran 1 1 gaudge wire into a distro block.

 

[Drift Away]

I've seen @Drift Away 's setup, pretty nice. That's a ton more than what I'm looking for at the moment (more so budget wise) but it's got to be insane.

I'm really just trying to get a better sound (similar to in cabin with the 650's in term of clarity) but just outside the boat < 20ft way I'm thinking tops, 99% of the time. 880's I KNOW will do the trick. How about 770's for 1/3 the cost? Or back to swim deck speakers lol. I just dont want to go with swim decks and think, well crap, this is louder but does it sound good. Inside it sounds like a party with the sub cranking. I don't expect that outside the boat, although, I believe the larger 880's can produce some solid bass along with mids and highs whereas maybe the 770's cannot.

You in Tampa we are in Trarpon Springs. I am sure we all good meet up at 3 Rooker or Anclote and you can hear Robs 8.8s or my swim deck speaker and see what route you want to go. Might be as easy as putting a good tune in it. I am pretty conservative with my tune. I want it loud but clear. As a mater of fact i think Rob has a set of his 7.7 towers he was trying to get rid of.

 

[Drift Away]

I've seen @Drift Away 's setup, pretty nice. That's a ton more than what I'm looking for at the moment (more so budget wise) but it's got to be insane.

I'm really just trying to get a better sound (similar to in cabin with the 650's in term of clarity) but just outside the boat < 20ft way I'm thinking tops, 99% of the time. 880's I KNOW will do the trick. How about 770's for 1/3 the cost? Or back to swim deck speakers lol. I just dont want to go with swim decks and think, well crap, this is louder but does it sound good. Inside it sounds like a party with the sub cranking. I don't expect that outside the boat, although, I believe the larger 880's can produce some solid bass along with mids and highs whereas maybe the 770's cannot.

This is after the 7.7s on the swim deck and a good tune. This is before i mounted the pods on the back.

 

[ralphsmithiii]

I had the same problem getting sound out. So i cut two 7.7 on the swim deck, 2 7.7 pods flush mounted and 2 7.7s pointing back from the anchor locker. It gets the sound way the hell out. View attachment 91423View attachment 91424

I've gotten catch up with you guys sooner than later. Next time you're out let me know I'm down in Oldsmar and need 1-hour or so to grab the boat and be at the docks.

 

[ralphsmithiii]

you are right, you need either tower speakers or transom speaker to hear when at the sandbar - tower speakers would be better
I have a 242LS and have MX770's on the transom and tower speakers
I am going switch out the transom for M series vs the MX to get the bigger tweeter - I notice when I turn up really loud it''s not as clear as like
I am also looking at adding individual volume knobs to each amp or a Ws-420BT to separate all interior boat speaker from my towers and transom speakers - like you said I want to turn down interior speakers while beaching to save battier power then vice versa when cruising
I have 3 amps pushing all speakers / 2 m600 and 1 m200

@Benny Sibbitt I dont think I ever asked but how do you like the MX770s in the towers? Another shop I talked to today suggested the MX770's in the towers, skip them in the rears and that would be a solid compromise in sound and price. Additionally, he said because I have MX series in the cabin, that the towers would better match, specifically having the same tweeters. I'm not sure how much that really plays into it but I understand his thought process.

I'm now thinking that a really good compromise for sound + price may be that MX770's in the towers and call it a day. I could run a pair off of a MX280/4 which doesn't draw a ton of power which in turn wont "require" me to get another battery, for now. Sure I won't get the low down bass the 880's are said to produce but I really don't think I'll be one of the boats out there that's jamming away. I'm not really against it we're just more of a chill behind the boat, talk, and hang out bunch. However, when cruising, and something I never thought of, was the addition of towers (either set 770s or 880)'s could also benefit the system as a whole there.

From what I've read even JL says if you DIDNT have a sub and got the 880's you wouldn't really need one but adding one would be an epic system. From that perspective, I can't help but want to just buy the 880s and be done with it but I'm also no longer trying to be that guy who buys the "better" stuff simply because it's "better" if I don't think it's going to really serve my purpose. I've pissed away way too much money because of that, lol.

Price point wise here is what I'm seeing and if ANYONE has better please let me know =)

JL M880's, enclosure, swivel mount shipped - $1100-$1200
JL MX770's, same - $830-$850

Difference in $300-400 alone in that.

AMP required for 880's
MX4/400 NIB - $500
MX4/400 Refurbed - $330

AMP for MX770's
MX280/4 - $200

$130 to 300 savings there

Battery + cables for 880s
AGM/Deep Cycle 21 (?) - $200+/-
Cables to tie in new battery $50-100

Extra $300 just for that.

So I'm looking at roughly $1200 for MX770's installed by myself versus $1730 on the low end for the 880's or a delta of $530. When I think "only" $530 my pre-2019 self would say, YOLO and you can't take it with you, you work hard so splurge a bit. But I still want a full Seadek set (waiting on September group buy 100%) plus a ton of other crap.