2009 Yamaha AR230 left engine Cavitation / spinning no power

[Danyckx]

Hi Guys

I have a 2009 Yamaha AR230 , my left engine feels like it’s spinning , Impeller turns but barely any power produced,
- I pulled out my clean out Plug they look great
- made sure nothing stuck in the intake grate
- I removed the Pump / Impeller etc , left side bearing needs to be changed, I got a new Bearing and changed it , the shaft looks good no damaged or deep scratches.

I am currently in Thailand, This is my third Yamaha AR230 I had the same boat in Canada never had any issues

I am a bit lost on what else to check, what do you suggest ?

 

[Scottintexas]

glad to have you on board,

you need @Geoff Cooper


he's a member here and also in Thailand although we haven't heard from him awhile,

do the impellers look ok ?
does it look like your missing any silicone sealant inside the intake area ?
How do you know the impeller is actually spinning ?

Normally no thrust or barely any we would suspect your cleanout plug is not installed correctly,

If you had a dinged up impeller or missing silicone allowing air into the jet you'd have thrust but it would be loud/vibrating but still have some power,

If you know the cleanout plug is sealed good, the impeller looks decent and no missing silicone I think I would confirm the impeller is spinning, maybe your intermediate bearing has gone out ?

 

[Danyckx]

Hey Scott thanks for the reply I’d love to get in touch with @Geoff Cooper , as for the impeller it looks top shape , the housing looks nice and tight no scratches , the impeller is turning because if I accelerate gradually , it seems to function fine I am still catching about 40 mph , the issue really appears when you accelerate quick , say from 6000 to full throttle , left engine spins but no power , again if I do it gradually I have no issues

as for the bearing on the left side where I am having cavitation I pulled out the pump and spinned the shaft manually and it sounded like it needed to change I am changing it at Yamaha now , my clean out plugs look good , they’re older a bit but they seal
Well I ordered 2 rebuilt kits with new seals

what else do you suggest I test ?

 

[Scottintexas]

as far as testing goes, you want to make sure the problem is replicated at least twice if not several times,

many times with our boats you can have something stuck in the intake causing problems and then when you remove the boat from the water to look for the problem the debris was washed away and people spend time looking or start trying to fix something that is fine,

your boat should top out in the 45-50mph range and be turning 10k rpm at full throttle,

the impellers can be tricky because it's hard to look and say "that's a bad impeller", mine we're very chewed up but still achieved 45mph, others may have only a mystery ding that affects performance,

because you can nurse it through the problem area I would suspect you either have a magic ding on the impeller or maybe some loose or missing silicone in the tunnel area just forward of the impeller,

.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Use a feeler gauge and check the distance between the ends of the impeller and the pump liner it should be less than 20 ,000 and look for dark spots on the liner or groves in it.
With cavitation your R P M's go up but your speed does not go up like it should any object even a small piece of fishing line will cause cavitation.

 

[Ronnie]

It sounds to me like some of the silicone binding the pump/shoe to the hull has deteriorated so water no longer smoothly pass between the intake and into the pump/area just in front of the impeller, causing cavitation. The easy way to check / troubleshoot this is the take a look at the operational pump and make sure the seal is the same on the non operational pump by adding and smoothing marine sealant as necessary, use standard RTV silicone if your not sure this is the problem and replace it with something stronger, like 3m 4200 or 5200, if missing sealant is the problem.

I’m speaking from first hand experience. I had a 2006 230 sx Ho from 2008 to 2012, before I sold it I experienced cavitation one one side when accelerating quickly but could still get up to close to 50 mph just a lot more slowly than before. It took a few weeks for me to identify and resolve the problem. If you use etc silicone the first time around and it works realize that it will come off relatively soon, it’s just not strong enough to hold up against the force of the water being sucked into the pump. On the other hand if you use 4200 or 5200 and you wrong or you apply too much/on the wrong locations/without smoothing it before it dries, it can take hours to remove. In both cases the pump, shaft and impeller have to be removed to get access to the top of the shoe. Unless you have your boat on a lift, you will be on your back with your arms over your head for a few hours.

here is a string from the site prior to this one , the dark side , or repository as I like to call it that may help.

Yamaha Jet Boaters • View topic - Question regarding resealing a pump.

good luck with finding and fixing the problem.

 

[Danyckx]

appreciate it boss, I’ll continue working backward , I am changing both bearings , and clean out plugs they’re older so far I reproduced the same issues Every-time I was in the water ,

one of the Jetboats mechanics is suggesting I removed both properllers and housing and rem them , it’s either this or I order 2 new impeller and 2 new housing and wait 30+ days to get them

as far as testing goes, you want to make sure the problem is replicated at least twice if not several times,

many times with our boats you can have something stuck in the intake causing problems and then when you remove the boat from the water to look for the problem the debris was washed away and people spend time looking or start trying to fix something that is fine,

your boat should top out in the 45-50mph range and be turning 10k rpm at full throttle,

the impellers can be tricky because it's hard to look and say "that's a bad impeller", mine we're very chewed up but still achieved 45mph, others may have only a mystery ding that affects performance,

because you can nurse it through the problem area I would suspect you either have a magic ding on the impeller or maybe some loose or missing silicone in the tunnel area just forward of the impeller,

.

 

[Danyckx]

Use a feeler gauge and check the distance between the ends of the impeller and the pump liner it should be less than 20 ,000 and look for dark spots on the liner or groves in it.
With cavitation your R P M's go up but your speed does not go up like it should any object even a small piece of fishing line will cause cavitation.

I

Use a feeler gauge and check the distance between the ends of the impeller and the pump liner it should be less than 20 ,000 and look for dark spots on the liner or groves in it.
With cavitation your R P M's go up but your speed does not go up like it should any object even a small piece of fishing line will cause cavitation.

i Will definetly order one , mechanics in here are very well equipped lol

 

[Danyckx]

It sounds to me like some of the silicone binding the pump/shoe to the hull has deteriorated so water no longer smoothly pass between the intake and into the pump/area just in front of the impeller, causing cavitation. The easy way to check / troubleshoot this is the take a look at the operational pump and make sure the seal is the same on the non operational pump by adding and smoothing marine sealant as necessary, use standard RTV silicone if your not sure this is the problem and replace it with something stronger, like 3m 4200 or 5200, if missing sealant is the problem.

I’m speaking from first hand experience. I had a 2006 230 sx Ho from 2008 to 2012, before I sold it I experienced cavitation one one side when accelerating quickly but could still get up to close to 50 mph just a lot more slowly than before. It took a few weeks for me to identify and resolve the problem. If you use etc silicone the first time around and it works realize that it will come off relatively soon, it’s just not strong enough to hold up against the force of the water being sucked into the pump. On the other hand if you use 4200 or 5200 and you wrong or you apply too much/on the wrong locations/without smoothing it before it dries, it can take hours to remove. In both cases the pump, shaft and impeller have to be removed to get access to the top of the shoe. Unless you have your boat on a lift, you will be on your back with your arms over your head for a few hours.

here is a string from the site prior to this one , the dark side , or repository as I like to call it that may help.

Yamaha Jet Boaters • View topic - Question regarding resealing a pump.

good luck with finding and fixing the problem.

I took some photos hopefully I can upload them
Here to show maybe it’ll help in seeing the issues

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

show picks of the impeller and pump liner if possible

 

[Ronnie]

Hard to tell from your picks but wherever the metal meets the fiberglass before the impeller should be a smooth as possible. almost any break in the smooth flow of water before getting into the impeller will cause cavitation. So I’d start by filling all gaps if any in the sealant and smoothing out any rough spots in it or the surfaces leading to the impeller. The discolored areas (light v surround dark) in the attached pics are suspicious to me.

the easy/reversible way to check is use silicone and a dremel to smooth things out. this by far is the least expensive problem to fix (I.e., silicone or 4200/5200) but also the hardest to diagnose.

If you want tighter tolerance between the impeller and wear ring consider painting the interior of the ring with a two part epoxy paint, I used some porcelain / bath tub repair paint that worked great

 

[Danyckx]

I sw

Hard to tell from your picks but wherever the metal meets the fiberglass before the impeller should be a smooth as possible. almost any break in the smooth flow of water before getting into the impeller will cause cavitation. So I’d start by filling all gaps if any in the sealant and smoothing out any rough spots in it or the surfaces leading to the impeller. The discolored areas (light v surround dark) in the attached pics are suspicious to me.

the easy/reversible way to check is use silicone and a dremel to smooth things out. this by far is the least expensive problem to fix (I.e., silicone or 4200/5200) but also the hardest to diagnose.

If you want tighter tolerance between the impeller and wear ring consider painting the interior of the ring with a two part epoxy paint, I used some porcelain / bath tub repair paint that worked great

View attachment 215239View attachment 215240

To eliminate the seal problem I just swapped the keys to confirms it’s the Impeller / housing the problem automatically transfered to the left side instead of the right side , again everything looks great but there must be something I am not seeing on that impeller ill
Order 2 new impeller and change both , just not sure in my situation if you’d change the housing as well ?

 

[Ronnie]

If the problem transferred to the other side when you switched out the impeller, shaft and stator/pump, i don’t think the problem is the wear ring. It cannot hurt to replace them both with new ones but getting them out could take a lot of time and effort, mine are glued/stuck in there good. If you just want t to tighten up the clearance between the ring and impeller, consider the two part epoxy / paint I referenced earlier.

 

[Danyckx]

If the problem transferred to the other side when you switched out the impeller, shaft and stator/pump, i don’t think the problem is the wear ring. It cannot hurt to replace them both with new ones but getting them out could take a lot of time and effort, mine are glued/stuck in there good. If you just want t to tighten up the clearance between the ring and impeller, consider the two part epoxy / paint I referenced earlier.

Id love to learn more about the epoxy paint and how you get it smooth and what paint you suggest or anthing epoxy paint I can get my hand on

 

[Ronnie]

Id love to learn more about the epoxy paint and how you get it smooth and what paint you suggest or anthing epoxy paint I can get my hand on

I used sink/bath tub repair paint from Lowe’s or Home Depot years ago. Just brush on a first/primer coat and another, second coat if needed. I think I dried mine in the oven trying not bake it in. The impellers will cut/grind the paint to the correct level.

 

[Danyckx]

I used sink/bath tub repair paint from Lowe’s or Home Depot years ago. Just brush on a first/primer coat and another, second coat if needed. I think I dried mine in the oven trying not bake it in. The impellers will cut/grind the paint to the correct level.

You think something like that would work?

 

[Ronnie]

You think something like that would work?

I think so, it’s worth a try anyway. I read others used JB weld. Keep in mind that this, in your case I think is an improvement, not a repair. I would focus on identifying and resolving the cavitation problem you are having. If the problem moves from side to side with the shaft, impeller and stator/pump assembly, the problem is not the wear Ring, I think it’s a bent impeller blade or shaft (more likely an impeller than shaft).

if you have not already done so, pull both assemblies and do a side by side / profile comparison as you rotate the impellers. Look for nicks on the edges, edges with jagged transitions instead of a smooth continuous edge and pitting or deformation at the front of the hub (anything that would disrupt the smooth flow of water into the impeller).

FYI, pre 2015 or so the starboard/port (right and left) impellers were pitched a little (1.5 degrees) differently between eachother so had different part numbers (you may not be able to see the difference with the naked eye) but as I understand it the shape of the hull causes the water to flow into one side more efficiently than the other, so one impeller will spin faster than the other at the same throttle position causing the boat to veer left or right (similar to a car with an alignment problem) when the operator is trying to keep it going straight. The small difference in pitch is supposed to correct for that, so if you are buying oem keep this in mind. if you are buying custom pitched aftermarket go with a supplier aware of this or you may start wondering why your boat doesn’t track as well as it used to. The fix is simple, have one of the impellers repitched but it’s time consuming to remove, repitch, reinstall and retest.

again, good luck with this. Unless you live in a year round boating location the good new me is you have time before the next season to deal with this.