Here come the hybrids

[BlkGS]

Don’t need too fancy. Quad cab (not crew cab), heated cloth seats, heated steering wheel, regular sunroof/moonroof, and a trailer brake controller. Also don’t mind buying end of the year leftovers, as I‘ve done this with my last two Rams.

Jim

I doubt they'll do an extended cab version of it. Almost all trucks sold are crew or regular cab. Ford was supposed to get rid of extended cab completely.

I dunno that you'll get the heated wheel, a lot of manufacturers put that into very high trim packages. The rest seems reasonable, that'd be like a nicely equipped Tradesman trim.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

I doubt they'll do an extended cab version of it. Almost all trucks sold are crew or regular cab. Ford was supposed to get rid of extended cab completely.

I dunno that you'll get the heated wheel, a lot of manufacturers put that into very high trim packages. The rest seems reasonable, that'd be like a nicely equipped Tradesman trim.

The Quad Cab has been around since 1998 and while it could be discontinued I haven’t yet seen any announcement to do so. I believe that about 1/3 of Ram 1500 sales are Quad Cabs. Less rear seat area, but a larger bed than the standard Crew Cab and about $3K less.

My 2020 Bighorn (level 2 package) included heated front seats, a heated steering wheel, and dual-zone automatic climate control,

Jim

 

[BlkGS]

The Quad Cab has been around since 1998 and while it could be discontinued I haven’t yet seen any announcement to do so. I believe that about 1/3 of Ram 1500 sales are Quad Cabs. Less rear seat area, but a larger bed than the standard Crew Cab and about $3K less.

My 2020 Bighorn (level 2 package) included heated front seats, a heated steering wheel, and dual-zone automatic climate control,

Jim

Well, then you'll probably still be able to get it on a big horn, lol.

The quad cab I dunno, I guess it depends on how the battery pack fits in. I could see it only really fitting the crew cab setup with the frame and bed. But maybe not, I suppose the wheelbase should be basically the same, so the hard points should be the same, and the can being a little shorter and the bed a little longer might not matter.

Then again, ram may choose tomdrove down complecity to keep costs low by only going crew cab..I suspect that a HIGH % of Ramcharger buyers will be crew cab buyers. Like probably 75% or more.

 

[TimW451]

Ford, the company that recently said that they are going all-in on hybrids, just announced that they are dropping the existing hybrid engine option from the 2024 Aviator and Explorer.

Also the new 2025 Toyota Camry will be only be available as a hybrid. But it doesn’t sound like there will be a PHEV version.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Well, then you'll probably still be able to get it on a big horn, lol.

The quad cab I dunno, I guess it depends on how the battery pack fits in. I could see it only really fitting the crew cab setup with the frame and bed. But maybe not, I suppose the wheelbase should be basically the same, so the hard points should be the same, and the can being a little shorter and the bed a little longer might not matter.

Then again, ram may choose tomdrove down complecity to keep costs low by only going crew cab..I suspect that a HIGH % of Ramcharger buyers will be crew cab buyers. Like probably 75% or more.

I think we will have to wait and see. Currently, the Ram 1500 has 3 different wheelbases, depending if its the Quad Cab, the Crew Cab, or the Crew Cab with the extended bed (the same 6’4” bed on the Quad Cab). May not make sense to offer three different wheelbases, when two would certainly capture most buyers.

Jim

 

[BlkGS]

Ford, the company that recently said that they are going all-in on hybrids, just announced that they are dropping the existing hybrid engine option from the 2024 Aviator and Explorer.

Also the new 2025 Toyota Camry will be only be available as a hybrid. But it doesn’t sound like there will be a PHEV version.

Ford can't figure out wtf they're doing. The explorer hybrid was kinda garbage, with a really low take rate, but the aviator hybrid was a PHEV, with the 3.0t motor and an electric motor (and a beefed up transmission). It was a really good setup they should have offered in the Explorer ST. It failed because they priced it absurdly high. Aviator in general is overpriced, they're built out to 70-90k, for the same underpinnings as an explorer. That's REALLY nice x5 money, or pretty nice X7 money. Some people are Ford people or American car people, but you've got to be REALLY drinking the Kool aid to spend the same money for a nicer more premium BMW on a Lincoln based off a Ford that's had a ton of quality issues.

I think Ford is sort of afraid of PHEVs tanking demand for their BEVs. They went all in on BEVs, and those have flopped. While a smart business would pivot and switch to PHEVs people want, a stupid business that's only pivoting because of investor pressure wouldn't see the writing on the wall and pivot to a version of that tech that people want.

 

[TimW451]

Toyota Prius Motor Trend 2024 Car of the Year. Sounds like Tesla Model 3 was expected to win (it was the new Highland version).
Probably need a subscription to see this link. It talks about why Toyota won, and why a hybrid won, not a BEV. It also talks about how Toyota seems to be on track for what consumers want (hybrids), unlike Ford and GM (BEVs). Plus a lot of other interesting factoids.

 

[TimW451]

….
I think Ford is sort of afraid of PHEVs tanking demand for their BEVs. ...

That’s the problem the industry has had, and now they have a gap in their portfolio. Ford had a good idea offering the Fusion in gas, hybrid, and PHEV ~10 years ago, but the market wasn’t ready for it, and probably still aren’t.

Platforms and people don’t view gas, hybrid, PHEV, and BEV like engine size, where you can offer many per platform and let people decide. (How did one choose an engine when buying an Impala in the 60s, there were 10 choices!) More than two choices is too much and there needs to be great, clear distinction between them, or no choice. I think that is why the new Camry will be hybrid only. If not people will pick gas because it is “safe”. with only one choice most people will accept the hybrid and move on.

 

[Ohio]

Phone key is an awesome idea, approach the car, driver door unlocks, get out of the car and car lock itself. Fail ratio is 0.01% on Tesla.
Lost your phone or it is stolen - get in touch with Tesla or your wife and she can unlock your car remotely and let you drive home. Can you do that with lost Car key? Can you find a dealer that will cut you a key Sunday 7 PM so you can get home from your trip 500 miles away?!?! Doubt it and it will cost you pretty money too. Tesla card that I would recommend to carry as a back up cost $25 and you can program to your Tesla on your own. But hey you can loose your wallet too
No other EV has good charger network integration with the vehicle, and if they do they route you to Walmart lot where those charging stations are off line. With Tesla if it sees that supercharger location is busy or offline it will give you other options, you will never run out of juice. For other brands you need to use PlugShare and Charge point apps to get proper status of chargers and plan your route separately from build in map.
I would not say it about Munro 100% Tesla bias, I watched very good reviews on EV Mustang and EV Genesis from him and his team. I love Genesis EV60 but it is $70K with 230 mile range in my view not worth it. Model Y without incentives is $49K 330 mile range and even at that price point Tesla is making profit.
Based on the graph below if other cars are so much better. Why Tesla outsells all of them combined?
People know it has quality issue but still go for it. I doubt it is incentives only.
EV Mustang has those incentives too and actually a very nice vehicle. I rode in one and was very impressed with quality and ride.
View attachment 211702

Elon took all the incentives he could. I think California was the biggest contributor to his success. But again the whole market was betting against him for years. and still there are people like Bill Gates short Tesla stock. So his road to profit was not as easy as you described.
To me the whole Government incentive thing is BS. I do not need to subsidize people who can afford to buy $50-70k car, and continue subsidize their electricity, road infrastructure after that. Very few states actually charge EV registrations more than regular cars.
I also agree that GM should refund all Government bail out money they received but you and I know it is not going to happen.

A charger network isn't really technology, and it exists because its a necessity. An ICE car doesn't require that sort of thing. So, it isn't some sort of benefit.

 

[Ohio]

Basic Autopilot, integration of supercharger network to route your car to your destination, battery management system, Tesla maps and directions, the interface is very intuitive. Phone key integration with all the stats on your Tesla including Sentry mode where you can watch any of the cameras on the car live. Just tons of good stuff that comes for free and other manufacturers nickel and dime. Buying Tesla is whole other experience, simple and no BS or upsell.
Tesla is also basically entertainment center on wheels, you can stream YouTube, Hulu, all kinds of music, play games. That is the user interface.
Batteries, motors - all these components are technically tested and improved for the past 12 years. No other manufacturers have same efficiency.
There was a very good review by Munro comparing Ford EV with Tesla and he was just amazed how many totally unnecessary parts Ford EV had for no reason. Tesla simplified the design. They do collect the data how components in their cars used and Elon cuts the ones where he sees no use and potential savings. Like they cut out lumbar support from passenger seat since 98% of cars where not using it.
Teslas may look the same since they are not changing their looks much, but they are constantly improving and evolving even during the same model year.
So all that is good, but quality of interior and exterior's not there even after 12 years. Eventually, Tesla becomes a rattle box on wheels and it is a quest to find where all these rattles are coming from. The "vegan" leather they use is also very questionable. Tesla mobile service is awesome but they don't like to hunt for squeaks and rattles.
I think Self driving is overpriced, useless and still needs a ton of work. Others believe that it is awesome and the future.

So there are a ton of stuff that others do not have vs Tesla, just depends what you want. I would love to drive Ioniq with Tesla tech but it doesn't exist.

I guess I'm not seeing anything that other cars don't have, other than things other cars don't need. Infotainment? lol why would I think that is something impressive in a car. We have that on our phones. And I can't think of a situation while driving that I wished I could live stream something on a car interface.

 

[zpaul]

A charger network isn't really technology, and it exists because its a necessity. An ICE car doesn't require that sort of thing. So, it isn't some sort of benefit.

Agreed. I was comparing Tesla network of charges vs other EVs that do not have same experience. I was not comparing Tesla to gas cars.

 

[zpaul]

I guess I'm not seeing anything that other cars don't have, other than things other cars don't need. Infotainment? lol why would I think that is something impressive in a car. We have that on our phones. And I can't think of a situation while driving that I wished I could live stream something on a car interface.

None of the cars I tried so far can match Tesla basic autopilot.
It will not let you stream while you drive. You start appreciate infotainment when you are stuck at lacrosse tournament fields with your kids for couple days. Also helps kill time when you are stuck at supercharger for 20-40 min. There is no comparison watching on big screen and good audio vs biggest iPhone or iPad. A gimmick - yes, good to have - yes.
Does you car let you know and see live that someone backed into it - no.
There is a decent amount Tesla should adopt from others and others, whether it is EV or Gas should get from Tesla.

 

[ZippyBoater]

Don't know if this has been covered yet, but I read this yesterday and it is scary for our economy. $17 per gallon? Need to dig a little deeper.

$17 a Gallon to Charge an EV

How much does it cost to charge an electric vehicle, and who picks up the tab? Steve Moore’s Committee to Unleash Prosperity has this: Uncle Sam pays the automakers billions of dollars to pro…

www.powerlineblog.com

 

[zpaul]

Don't know if this has been covered yet, but I read this yesterday and it is scary for our economy. $17 per gallon? Need to dig a little deeper.

$17 a Gallon to Charge an EV

How much does it cost to charge an electric vehicle, and who picks up the tab? Steve Moore’s Committee to Unleash Prosperity has this: Uncle Sam pays the automakers billions of dollars to pro…

www.powerlineblog.com

Yep saw same thing and posted in a different thread

https://jetboaters.net/threads/drove-a-lightning-yesterday.40419/post-668282

That is what worries me about going fully electric.
Right now they lure you in with all these incentives and soon they will realize we do not have money to pay for it or capacity to charge everyone.
Like look at the lines to Superchargers in California and demands to charge or use washers and driers at night. CA grid is not equipped to handle existing load without even going fully electric by 2035.
And as we know with higher demand you get higher prices. Not only that they will ask you to pay more taxes to put new "solar" plants or new nukes.

This is just an example how government wastes money of epic proportions on stuff that doesn't make sense or work.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Don't know if this has been covered yet, but I read this yesterday and it is scary for our economy. $17 per gallon? Need to dig a little deeper.

$17 a Gallon to Charge an EV

How much does it cost to charge an electric vehicle, and who picks up the tab? Steve Moore’s Committee to Unleash Prosperity has this: Uncle Sam pays the automakers billions of dollars to pro…

www.powerlineblog.com

If you ever take a college course on article writing, you learn that all articles have a hook (are slanted in a way that more people will read them).

I haven‘t research this, but one could write an article on who picks up the tab for us to drive our ICE vehicles on the highways, as the gasoline taxes that we pay as regular drivers sure doesn’t foot the bill.

Jim

 

[BigN8]

I listened to the Elon Musk podcast on Joe Rogan yesterday while driving to Oklahoma. He said something interesting, and I wonder if most EV owners know this or maybe forget about it because it goes against logic. He said if you are making a long trip in an EV that you should run the battery down to about 8% charge, then plug it in and charge to 80%. NOT 100%. It takes half the time to charge from 8% to 80%. The reason for this is as the battery gets full it takes more time for the lithium ions to search and find a slot to park the charge. His analogy was like driving your car in a busy mall parking lot or airport parking garage. The fuller the parking garage is the longer you have to drive around and find a parking spot. I found that very interesting.

 

[ZippyBoater]

If you ever take a college course on article writing, you learn that all articles have a hook (are slanted in a way that more people will read them).

I haven‘t research this, but one could write an article on who picks up the tab for us to drive our ICE vehicles on the highways, as the gasoline taxes that we pay as regular drivers sure doesn’t foot the bill.

Jim

I know all about lying with numbers. I have been doing data analysis for DOD for 30 years and numbers can be twisted and reports can be edited to make a certain point. Powerline is very reputable, but like I said, I need to do some more research.

 

[zpaul]

I listened to the Elon Musk podcast on Joe Rogan yesterday while driving to Oklahoma. He said something interesting, and I wonder if most EV owners know this or maybe forget about it because it goes against logic. He said if you are making a long trip in an EV that you should run the battery down to about 8% charge, then plug it in and charge to 80%. NOT 100%. It takes half the time to charge from 8% to 80%. The reason for this is as the battery gets full it takes more time for the lithium ions to search and find a slot to park the charge. His analogy was like driving your car in a busy mall parking lot or airport parking garage. The fuller the parking garage is the longer you have to drive around and find a parking spot. I found that very interesting.

after 80% the charge slows down a lot. It will take you 20-25 min to charge from 10% to 80% and another 20-25 min to charge from 80% to 100%.
Experience long distance EV drivers just charge enough to get to the next charger and Tesla will let you know that. So it may tell you at 65% you are good to go to next charger. No need to sit there till 80%. But depending on weather and your driving style you may add 2-5% just in case.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

I listened to the Elon Musk podcast on Joe Rogan yesterday while driving to Oklahoma. He said something interesting, and I wonder if most EV owners know this or maybe forget about it because it goes against logic. He said if you are making a long trip in an EV that you should run the battery down to about 8% charge, then plug it in and charge to 80%. NOT 100%. It takes half the time to charge from 8% to 80%. The reason for this is as the battery gets full it takes more time for the lithium ions to search and find a slot to park the charge. His analogy was like driving your car in a busy mall parking lot or airport parking garage. The fuller the parking garage is the longer you have to drive around and find a parking spot. I found that very interesting.

Electrical stuff not really my forte, but this charge strategy would be somewhat similar to how we charge non-lithium batteries as well. We use multiple stage chargers, with a bulk stage to get to 80% and an absorption stage for the remaining 20%. Charge current is highest during the bulk stage.

Regarding lithium EV batteries, I can see what Musk is saying, as there must be a hell of a lot of individual cells in an EV battery pack!

Jim

 

[TimW451]

I listened to the Elon Musk podcast on Joe Rogan yesterday while driving to Oklahoma. He said something interesting, and I wonder if most EV owners know this or maybe forget about it because it goes against logic. He said if you are making a long trip in an EV that you should run the battery down to about 8% charge, then plug it in and charge to 80%. NOT 100%. It takes half the time to charge from 8% to 80%. The reason for this is as the battery gets full it takes more time for the lithium ions to search and find a slot to park the charge. His analogy was like driving your car in a busy mall parking lot or airport parking garage. The fuller the parking garage is the longer you have to drive around and find a parking spot. I found that very interesting.

In the same regard, bigger batteries aren’t the correct solution to long distance driving. Because they take longer to charge it can be quicker to get to a destination in an EV with a standard battery that requires three stops to charge vs an extended range EV that only requires 2 charging stops. The extended range EV is then also unnecessarily hauling that bigger, heavier battery around everyday.