Knocking sound on Starboard Engine (AR230)

[marmstufl]

All,

Today I took out my 2008 AR230, which had been performing flawlessly over the past few 9 months (since I got it). I was about 1 week away from my yearly maintenance (changing out plugs, oil filter, oil) and figured all was well.

Today I take the boat out and my starboard side engine fires up then immediately dies. I do this a few times and figure that I've got something screwy going on with my kill switch by the plug clear-outs. I idle the boat down to my canal on the port side engine and open up the clear out area and fiddle with the kill switches. I also switched over to battery #2 to see if it was a battery voltage issue.. Both engines immediately fire back up and everything is running fine (I figured the battery voltage was it, since the starboard engine ignition has a lot more connected to it).

We troll around for a bit and play with a tube, nothing out of the ordinary, no warning lights. As we're coming back in, I notice that the oil pressure light flipped on and the engine immediately dropped down to around 3k RPM (I'm assuming this is because it was overheating). I flipped the engine off and used one engine to go around 2 miles back toward my house.

I flipped on the engine one more time to see if it would start (Starboard side) and it fired up but began knocking a little bit, I then immediately turned it off.

I get the boat back on the lift and change the oil, oil filter, and spark plugs. I noticed on the starboard engine, there was hardly any oil in it.. which was incredibly odd to me. The boat was performing flawlessly throughout the past 9 months.. I know I probably should check the oil levels more often, but didn't really check it the last few months.

After I changed everything out, I connect the wash hose and fire up the starboard engine. The knocking starts to die down and goes away for about 10 seconds (once i flip the boat into no wake mode.. I did this for about 10 seconds then turned it off)... then the knocking comes back. It sounds like a piston or something. I've got a Yamaha mechanic coming to take a look at it on Saturday, but I'm freaking out that I may have cracked an engine block..

Anybody have any ideas on what could have happened? I was shocked that hardly any oil was in the engine, but it explains why it was shutting down. The knocking speeds up if I give the boat throttle.. so something with a piston maybe?


P.S.

The port side engine is fine, runs smooth after the change out of oil/filter/plugs (ran fine before as well).

 

[2nazt]

Hey Matt sorry to hear this is happening. I never had an issue with oil use in either motor while I owned it. So I hope it is nothing serious that has hurt the motor. Was the knocking after oil change from the motor itself or the pump noise while being on the hose? I've never ran it besides idle and the few blips after a flush only so not sure how it sounded at high idle on the hose. I'll be following this post to hope it is nothing serious. My fingers are crossed.

PS. I will be sending out the grill mount this week as School has been crazy for me and I got side tracked.

 

[marmstufl]

Hey Brotha, no problem on the grill mount, take your time! Yeah, the boat has been running fantastic ever since I bought it from ya. I probably take it out an average of once or twice a week.. so it's been getting some decent use. The knocking began BEFORE the oil change.. kind of like a rattling/knocking, but will increase with the RPM's of the engine. The rattling/knocking is persisting still, but when I had the hose hooked up to the boat while it was on the lift, it went away for a brief moment in time.

The location of the noise appears to be from behind the engine where the oil/pump would be. It's pretty hard to discern the location that it's coming from really.

I'm wondering if it's something with the oil pump, or possibly something electrical with the engine ECU or something.

 

[2nazt]

Does it sound like something possibly in the jet assembly? Or for sure the motor?

 

[marmstufl]

Sorry, I edited my response above.. I didn't answer you correctly. It's pretty hard to discern really, I had a few buddies look at it and one swears it's behind the motor toward the jet assembly. I'm on the fence kind of. It definitely happens at a faster rate with more RPMs. Definitely a knocking/spray paint cant rattle.

 

[Scottintexas]

I would normally tell you they just sound like a spray can when out of the water or to pull the impeller/shaft out since it's only a 30min. job (instructions are in the FAQ) to help identify if it's the impeller/pump or the engine,
but with the low oil notification that doesn't seem good, we don't ever have many comments about these engines burning oil or need top offs between changes so that also has me worried you may have some type of internal issues,

The big question at this point is how competent is your mechanic and how much do you trust him, Do you have any history with him or a good referral?
I know we had a member up near PNS that had a really good mechanic that was able to rebuild an engine in a day, he knew his stuff and I'd be very tempted to if I ever had a problem to drive 12 hours just so I would get it done right the first time,

Good luck and keep us posted,

 

[Gym]

@marmstufl. If your mechanic hasn't addressed this yet you may want to pull thè jet pump out and check for liner swelling. Has this boat been used in salt water? The pump liners are subject to swelling causing impeller contact. While the pump is out you should try the motor to see if the noise is still there. I would also do a compression check on each cylinder. Good luck. Keep us posted.

 

[Seadeals]

I agree with @Gym that a compression check would be a good idea. If there is not oil in the engine compartment floor/bilge, the only place I can think it could "disappear" is getting burned up in the combustion chamber, which a compression test would show.

When you say "hardly any oil", I interpret you mean just in the oil cooler? The sump holds about half when the engine is running; but if the engine is off, a lot more drains out of the cooler into to the sump. How long since it was running for at least a couple minutes before the oil change? How much oil did you decide to put back in? It is a good idea to carry extra oil so you can immediately add and check if something like this happens on the water.

A close visual of the impeller for any dings and scoring on the wear ring (smoking guns) could preclude pulling the pump; but pulling one is not hard unless it has never been done and things are crusty.

 

[marmstufl]

Hey All,

Sorry for the late update, but here goes:

Taking it to a very good mechanic here in Tampa next Monday (I'm going out of town or else I'd take it over ASAP), mechanic shop is Jet Trendz. I spoke to the owner and he sounds like a stand up guy and he's got good reviews/comes recommended from everyone in my neighborhood (boating community).


@Seadeals : When I tried to pump out the oil after inserting the suction hose into the dip stick opening, nothing was coming out (which was a contrast to the port side engine that I pulled out around 2.5 quarts). Oil did seep out once I changed the oil filter on the problem engine though (Thank god for puppy pads!). The Engine was off for about 30-45 minutes before I changed the oil, probably longer than that since I limped in on one engine back to the lift. I added in about 3 quarts total, and checked the dipstick after I re-fired up the problem engine and it was at "F". I agree with you, I'm going to start carrying extra oil and bringing it out on the water in case this happens in the future.

The rattling/knocking sound is troubling, but nothing I can do about it now. Much like everything else in life, guess I'll be learning this lesson the hard way, I'll update you guys with what the mechanic finds out in about a week. Just hoping the engine block is ok.

 

[Marvin willis]

I would never fill to the full mark. It's gonna soak the air filter with oil. At least it will from what I've heard

 

[marmstufl]

All,

The update is as follows (mechanic just called me from Jet Trendz here in New Port Richey):

• The connecting rod bearings were shot on one piston (due to the oil being low)
  • This makes a little more sense now, because one of the guys looking at the engine with me could have sworn that the knocking was coming from lower on the engine
  • I still have no idea what caused the oil to burn down that low, the other engine was fine. I know a bad connecting rod can cause some of these symptoms, but this is a little extreme.
• The Oil Pump will need to be replaced because some metal got inside of it from the connecting Rod bearings (to be safe)
• He mentioned that the engine looked like it was in really good shape (there was no damage to the engine block or the upper part of the engine). He's going to break the engine down a little more this afternoon and fully let me know if he's comfortable repairing the engine or if we'll have to buy a new one (the engine block is in perfect shape he said).

Hopefully I've dodged a very expensive bullet on this one, I'll know the full damage later today when he calls me with his final estimate. A question for everyone: I've got a bad habit of running my starboard side engine in no wake mode when I'm coming into my canal, or docking in some marinas (I leave the other engine in idle). Would this cause more oil to burn up in some weird way?

 

[marmstufl]

Final Update,

So after further inspection, it looks like a total rebuild is needed. Mechanic is going to:

• Replace the motor with an SBT (company in clearwater) motor: http://www.shopsbt.com/jetski/yamaha-engine-fx-ho-ar230-ho-sx-230-ho-2004-2008.html
• New Oil Pump (factory Yamaha)
• Gaskets/plugs/filter/oil/etc.

Another question here, the mechanic mentioned that he couldn't find the 2008 AR230 on Yamaha's factory part website. That linked engine appears to be the same that is in the boat, he swears that it's the same horsepower/will be the same as the port side engine. Do any of you have any thoughts about the above linked engine? It says it's compatible up to the 2006 AR 230 HO.

 

[2nazt]

@Bruce do you know if it is the same motor to the question above? I'm pretty sure it is.

Once again Matt I'm sorry for seeing this happen to you. Hopefully it is a quick repair.

I'm pretty sure riding in no wake would not effect oil consumption by any means.

 

[Bruce]

As far as I know all 1098 cc MR-1 HO engines are the same. The non HO engine is 998 cc.

The parts list for your boat or a different color of your boat is online at
http://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/l/yam/50039feef870021f60a119ab/2008-ar230-high-output-sxt1100ag-parts

I believe the relevant parts are in the crankcase diagram.

I have heard stories of spark plugs getting fouled during long no wake periods which would suggest that the engine does burn oil in no wake but I am uncertain that it would burn more than when at idle.

 

[marmstufl]

@2nazt it's A ok.. something may have been up with that engine, but I should have checked the oil more than I was (unfortunately you only seem to learn in life when you get hurt or when it costs you money ).

@Bruce Thanks for the confirmation on the engine, I was worried I'd have to re-learn the RPMs on one engine all over again.. or worse yet, it'd be out of synch.

I guess I'll never really know what cause that engine to burn through oil like crazy.. the true tragedy in all of this is my 2 week vacation started yesterday.. I won't get the boat back until the week of 7/10 .

 

[marmstufl]

I've got an update on this (and maybe provide some helpful information for anyone in the future)!


Sooo.. I got the engine rebuilt and things appeared to be fine for a few weeks (the rebuilt engine sounded slightly different/louder, but not enough to make me worry). I was babying the engine getting it broken in before the new engine's 10 hour maintenance (staying at around 7-8k rpm max). I was coming in one evening and noticed another knocking sound coming from the same starboard side engine, a knocking that increased/decreased with RPMs. I checked the oil and it was about 25% lower than the port engine (the port engine was about at the "F" line). Thank goodness the rebuilt engine was under warranty, so I took it back to the same shop, who pulled the engine and sent it to SBT, the company that rebuilds the engines.

I called the mechanic today and he mentioned that he did hear back from the company who put the engine on a dyno and ran an analysis. The #4 piston was washed out and failed. They want my mechanic to check the boat's computer to see if it was causing the #4 piston's fuel injector to run rich (which could cause the piston ring to crack). They rebuilt the engine and have since sent it back to my mechanic who will do a check on the computer once he drops the engine back in. My question to all of you..

Does this sound right? On the surface it does, it would explain why the starboard engine eats more oil than the port, and why this piston had issues even though the starboard engine was at adequate oil. If it is the computer, is this something that can be fixed, or does it require a whole new unit (which I believe is around 1000-1300). Either way I'm covered by the warranty and am almost hoping it's an electrical issue, which would almost explain all the strange oddities that I've experienced over the past few months.

 

[okula225]

Final Update,

So after further inspection, it looks like a total rebuild is needed. Mechanic is going to:

• Replace the motor with an SBT (company in clearwater) motor: 1.0L FX 140 HO/ FX Cruiser HO/ AR230 HO/ SX230 HO/ SR230 HO
• New Oil Pump (factory Yamaha)
• Gaskets/plugs/filter/oil/etc.

Another question here, the mechanic mentioned that he couldn't find the 2008 AR230 on Yamaha's factory part website. That linked engine appears to be the same that is in the boat, he swears that it's the same horsepower/will be the same as the port side engine. Do any of you have any thoughts about the above linked engine? It says it's compatible up to the 2006 AR 230 HO.

What was your mechanics deciding factor to go with a new engine? I am going through the same issues that you describe however my cylinder walls and block look great. It just seems that the crank will need to be repaired or replaced, and the connecting rod and bearings will need to be replaced.

 

[Cmonst]

What was your mechanics deciding factor to go with a new engine? I am going through the same issues that you describe however my cylinder walls and block look great. It just seems that the crank will need to be repaired or replaced, and the connecting rod and bearings will need to be replaced.

Hi Okula, I believe my motor has suffer the same issue. I was curious if you were just able to rebuilt your current engine? Thank you for any advice

 

[okula225]

Hi Okula, I believe my motor has suffer the same issue. I was curious if you were just able to rebuilt your current engine? Thank you for any advice

Went with a new crank, swapped out the journal bearings, plastigauged, and all is working well now.

 

[Cmonst]

Went with a new crank, swapped out the journal bearings, plastigauged, and all is working well now.

That's good to hear so there is hope lol. Just started yesterday and I shut it down immediately keeping my fingers crossed I can do the same as you. Where did you purchase your parts from?