10 hour service - Warning, long post - read only if bored

[Evildwarf]

Post edited to remove the more inflammatory comments that may be seen as an indictment of dealer service bays nationwide, I really do not mean to offend anyone.

Last year I paid a dealer to do the 10 hr on our 192 since I'm not much of a DIY type with engines and I was sure that there was some deeply complicated rocket science going on with the intermediate bearing lubrication process plus the dealer would surely be checking the boat over "aft to baft" for needed adjustments.
It turns out that the 10 hr is the most expensive oil change in the history of the free world!
Fast forward to yesterday, our 242 is due for the 10 hr and after much research on the subject I have concluded that there is nothing scientific about the 10 hr service. The entire intermediate bearing mystery is such bullshit, either Yamaha doesn't have any idea how to explain the process or the execs think the whole thing is just funny.
What I mean is:
1: yamaha makes the bearing, assembles the parts anyways, and they don't know how to properly maintain it? There are a million different posts on this subject, everyone's "yamaha service guy" says something different (mine said "squirt some grease in there once in awhile and you'll be fine") wow thanks Tommy Technical!
2: the general consensus on the forums is that these are sealed bearings and the grease is just a water seal to prevent intrusion and degradation of the bearing. There is no way to calculate (despite the overly complicated algorithms put forth on these forums on calculating the molecular weight of marine grease in zero gravity) the amount of grease to put in the damn things.
3: the information in the yamaha manual is suspect. Why? Consider the "break in period" conundrum on the engines. If we are supposed to observe this break in period (which I did to the letter, 5 minutes at this RPM, an hour at this one etc, as it states in the manual) then why do these boats have time on the motors when they are delivered? There is some evidence that all boats are tested before leaving the factory, both my Yamahas have had time on the engines when purchased new, so who does the break in period? This is some kind of "engine elf magic" or else just more bullshit put out by a company that builds a great product but lacks some skill in communicating with the end users.
We have several dealers on this forum, how about an opinion here?
Ok so back to the 10 hr. I went to the dealer and bought the filters, oil, and marine grease, got some puppy pads from the pet store, Attwood oil extractor from Wallymart, loaded up needed tools and headed to the marina.
Greased the bearings (two rules seem to apply, slowly inject grease and grease is better than no grease but don't overload the damn things) so I scientifically calculated 12 pumps on ye old grease gun was the precise amount to effect the desired result. I'll be periodically injecting 3 pumps of grease throughout each season so this seems to be about right. (Let the shouting begin on that statement)
Moved on to the oil change, ran the motors, spread the puppy pads, sucked all the oil from the port motor and bam I forgot the filter wrench. Back to the house for the wrench and completed the oil change on both motors. Cleaned up, ran the motors, checked levels, checked for leaks and we are good to go.
Seems to me a rather simple procedure (even for a mechanical dunce like me) to be such a pricey service in a dealership service bay.
One piece of advice, grease the bearings before you run the motors since you have to crawl into the engine bay to reach the zerc fittings. Spooning with a hot motor is not my idea of a good time. (I bear hugged the merc in my old 4winns several times on the water and dammit, burns hurt)
Long post, congrats for making it all the way through.
Just thought I would share a little.
Sorry.
I do love my boat, really, a great product.

 

[B_Mutter]

@Evildwarf ... Here is my take on the break-in period of the boats:

The motors are made over in the mother land and are on a ship for a few months and then stock piled at the factory in TN in a timely manner for installation into the boat. The boats are then assembled enough to be "water ready" and are taken for about a 20 min test drive. Yes the boat is put through the paces and if you notice in the gauge where you can see "Highest Speed" this is as fast as Yamaha got your boat. Keep in mind it is not fully built and has next to no fuel in it, but on most boats this speed is unattainable ever again. If something were going to go terribly wrong with the motor Yamaha wants to know about it ASAP and would find that problem during the test run. The boat is then finished up and shipped off to dealers. At the dealer who knows how long the boat is going to sit around for before it's sold and on the water. This is where your break-in period comes in. All we want to do is take it easy on the motor for an hour and a half of it's entire life time. It's not really a whole lot to ask compared to the outboards and sterndrives that need 10 hours before you can use them for watersports, etc.

As far as the oil change price here is my 2 cents:

I have to get paid for the time that my technician is on the job. The procedure is fairly easy but its the time it takes to get everything set up and the job performed. The boat may have been dropped off across the yard and need to be moved near a hose. Our tech has to get the boat uncovered and fired up so the engine can warm up for 30mins. During this time he has to get our vacuum extractor charged up and get his parts and oil together. The oil is changed, engine run again, and the levels checked to make sure that they are correct. The main bearing is greased, the clean out plugs are greased, and the 12 volt system of the boat is checked out. The tech has to remove the used oil and filter, his tools, etc. Then clean the boat up, cover it up, and move it to the "Done" side of the yard. He has to empty the extractor and place the filter(s) in the drain bucket. So yes this time all adds up and is charged accordingly. Yes the parts aren't that expensive (well maybe the oil filter is on the 1.8's) but it is the time it takes. We are not a flat rate shop. I don't want my guys rushing to do every job as fast as they can so they can do more in a day. We are about quality here. Our store has been in business for 60 years and my Grandfather molded this place to be about family. Take care of the boat like it was your own because our customers are our family.

Sorry for the lengthy explaination LOL!!

All in all we just want customers to absolutely LOVE their boats!!!

 

[Ziess21]

There is some evidence that all boats are tested before leaving the factory, both my Yamahas have had time on the engines when purchased new, so who does the break in period? This is some kind of "engine elf magic" or else just more bullshit put out by a company that builds a great product but lacks some skill in communicating with the end users.
We have several dealers on this forum, how about an opinion here?

Break in period is a very complicated subject and usually devolves into an "I'm right! You're Wrong! The manual says....! I have no idea, really..." type of discussion. Yes, the factory does test run every boat on the water. I have never seen it first hand as they are very secretive there but that is what we have been told several times. Most of our boats show up with .3-.7 hours on them. As far as break in goes, we advise people to vary the throttle for the first 5 hours and to stay out of the top end for any length of time in those first 5 hours. Likewise, avoid excessive idling. I know of SEVERAL new boat owners that have completely disregarded break in time all together and have suffered no issues whatsoever.

The long and short here is if a mechanically challenged person like me can do this then anyone can. I don't see what the dealer service guys are gonna do differently (and don't BS me by saying they'll check the cables and gates and pivot points and nuts and bolts for tightness etc etc) they roll the boat in, change the oil, squirt some grease in the bearings (maybe if it ain't lunch time) and charge a huge fee for doing it.

Depends on your dealer for the most part. Some are definitely better than others. Our techs have complete check lists that are gone through during the service that address most mechanical aspects of the boat, plus they hook the computer up to the motors to view any faults. The other important consideration is that hopefully the tech sees that kind of boat frequently and can easily spot anything that might be out of the norm that an owner may not recognize as a potential issue, saving you lost time on the water.

My $.02

 

[MikeyL]

@Ziess21 and @B_Mutter : EXCELLENT Comments ! And appreciated by most ! Thanks for taking the time to write ! I for one enjoyed your thoughts !
Mikey Lulejian - Lake Oconee, GA

 

[Ronnie]

I recently found water in the oil of my Waverunner with a 160 hp mr1 engine. I tell you this to set up the following:

I've changed the oil now 4 times in the last few days, I also changed the spark plugs, greased the main bearing and checked for loose nuts / fittings. All of the above (minus 3 of the oil changes) took me, the most junior of shade tree weekend mechanics less than an hour to do. Oil is $20, the filter was another $25 as were the plugs. So total material cost is under $75 and labor time is less than an hour. My dealer charges over $100 an hour so he cost to have them do this (excluding the spark plug change) should be under $200 unless they are marking up the materials, add another $100 to $200 for a boat with two engines. My dealer charges close to $800 for this service on a twin engine boat. I don't know what the dictionary definition is for gouging but firmly believe that this is a good example of it.

How to maintain the main bearing has been the subject of many conversations, I use the "stiff filler hose" test. For those that really want consistency in the amount of grease to use I suggest you consider installing an inline pressure meter so that you can maintain the same amount of grease/pressure (whatever that may be in your opinion) at all times.

 

[Big Shasta]

I recently found water in the oil of my Waverunner with a 160 hp mr1 engine. I tell you this to set up the following:

I've changed the oil now 4 times in the last few days, I also changed the spark plugs, greased the main bearing and checked for loose nuts / fittings. All of the above (minus 3 of the oil changes) took me, the most junior of shade tree weekend mechanics less than an hour to do. Oil is $20, the filter was another $25 as were the plugs. So total material cost is under $75 and labor time is less than an hour. My dealer charges over $100 an hour so he cost to have them do this (excluding the spark plug change) should be under $200 unless they are marking up the materials, add another $100 to $200 for a boat with two engines. My dealer charges close to $800 for this service on a twin engine boat. I don't know what the dictionary definition is for gouging but firmly believe that this is a good example of it.

How to maintain the main bearing has been the subject of many conversations, I use the "stiff filler hose" test. For those that really want consistency in the amount of grease to use I suggest you consider installing an inline pressure meter so that you can maintain the same amount of grease/pressure (whatever that may be in your opinion) at all times.

Agreed...one note - the newer boats don't have the hose, the grease fitting is right on the housing....so there is no "feel check"

 

[Ronnie]

I bet owners could still install a meter between the zerk fitting and the bearing hoisin though if they wanted to monitor/maintain the grease by pressure.

Why yamaha didn't make maintenance on this more user feeing is beyond me, but I also question why they just didn't put an oil drain plug at the bottom of the oil reservoir. I certainly don't want to over or under fill the main bearing though, based on pics of damaged bearings (some possibly from you) it looks like they are a pita to replace.maybe I'm thinking of the pump bearings?

 

[Evil Sports]

Brian, thanks for your perspective. I totally get what you are saying since I own companies where labor is the largest expense. The homeowner can always do our job cheeper since they dont have ANY overhead.
And dwarf... Yer so EVIL

 

[Craig]

@Evildwarf ... Here is my take on the break-in period of the boats:

The motors are made over in the mother land and are on a ship for a few months and then stock piled at the factory in TN in a timely manner for installation into the boat. The boats are then assembled enough to be "water ready" and are taken for about a 20 min test drive. Yes the boat is put through the paces and if you notice in the gauge where you can see "Highest Speed" this is as fast as Yamaha got your boat. Keep in mind it is not fully built and has next to no fuel in it, but on most boats this speed is unattainable ever again. If something were going to go terribly wrong with the motor Yamaha wants to know about it ASAP and would find that problem during the test run. The boat is then finished up and shipped off to dealers. At the dealer who knows how long the boat is going to sit around for before it's sold and on the water. This is where your break-in period comes in. All we want to do is take it easy on the motor for an hour and a half of it's entire life time. It's not really a whole lot to ask compared to the outboards and sterndrives that need 10 hours before you can use them for watersports, etc.

As far as the oil change price here is my 2 cents:

I have to get paid for the time that my technician is on the job. The procedure is fairly easy but its the time it takes to get everything set up and the job performed. The boat may have been dropped off across the yard and need to be moved near a hose. Our tech has to get the boat uncovered and fired up so the engine can warm up for 30mins. During this time he has to get our vacuum extractor charged up and get his parts and oil together. The oil is changed, engine run again, and the levels checked to make sure that they are correct. The main bearing is greased, the clean out plugs are greased, and the 12 volt system of the boat is checked out. The tech has to remove the used oil and filter, his tools, etc. Then clean the boat up, cover it up, and move it to the "Done" side of the yard. He has to empty the extractor and place the filter(s) in the drain bucket. So yes this time all adds up and is charged accordingly. Yes the parts aren't that expensive (well maybe the oil filter is on the 1.8's) but it is the time it takes. We are not a flat rate shop. I don't want my guys rushing to do every job as fast as they can so they can do more in a day. We are about quality here. Our store has been in business for 60 years and my Grandfather molded this place to be about family. Take care of the boat like it was your own because our customers are our family.

Sorry for the lengthy explaination LOL!!

All in all we just want customers to absolutely LOVE their boats!!!

I wish you were my local dealer!

 

[Big Shasta]

I bet owners could still install a meter between the zerk fitting and the bearing hoisin though if they wanted to monitor/maintain the grease by pressure.

Why yamaha didn't make maintenance on this more user feeing is beyond me, but I also question why they just didn't put an oil drain plug at the bottom of the oil reservoir. I certainly don't want to over or under fill the main bearing though, based on pics of damaged bearings (some possibly from you) it looks like they are a pita to replace.maybe I'm thinking of the pump bearings?

Do not take this the wrong way....This is an important maintenance item but not like you think.....The grease is just to keep the seals lubricated, it isn't greasing a bearing like you would think it's doing to keep a bearing from running unlubricated.

If you were to put a couple pumps of grease in there each year, it would be fine...If you were to put 5 pumps in there every 3 or 4 years it would probably be fine too....It's just not critical like greasing a bearing that is running against direct pressure.

I have an older boat with the hoses to the housing from the grease fitting and when I got my boat at 5 years old, I took the hoses off and filled them with new grease and then reinstalled them and pumped them up with grease/pressure to push the grease down on the seal......I don't think it had any grease on it in 5 years but it was fine and 5 years later, it's never had an issue in the area.

As to your other point, I would love a drain fitting at the bottom of the engine that I could attach my oil pump to and suck out every bit of oil in the engine. Yamaha blew that one.

 

[MikeyL]

@Evildwarf ... Here is my take on the break-in period of the boats:

The motors are made over in the mother land and are on a ship for a few months and then stock piled at the factory in TN in a timely manner for installation into the boat. The boats are then assembled enough to be "water ready" and are taken for about a 20 min test drive .... If something were going to go terribly wrong with the motor Yamaha wants to know about it ASAP and would find that problem during the test run .... The boat is then finished up and shipped off to dealers. At the dealer who knows how long the boat is going to sit around for before it's sold and on the water. This is where your break-in period comes in. All we want to do is take it easy on the motor for an hour and a half of it's entire life time. It's not really a whole lot to ask compared to the outboards and sterndrives that need 10 hours before you can use them for watersports, etc.
All in all we just want customers to absolutely LOVE their boats!!!

I guess I am confused ... "conflicted" <?> .... as to why this is even an issue. BRP (SeaDoo) has virtually the SAME "break-in" period and set of events !
To Barbie and me, the PROPER Yamaha recommended break-in simply makes sense.
You only go through this once in the boat's lifetime. And it didn't "hurt" us .... It simply reminded us all the while of the Care and Quality our Yamaha was constructed using.

Again, our 2 cents worth, which won't even pay for the CUP for a cup of coffee any longer. Y'all play nicely out there on the water this weekend !
Mikey Lulejian - Livin' the Dream on Lake Oconee, GA

 

[Britboater]

Post edited to remove the more inflammatory comments that may be seen as an indictment of dealer service bays nationwide, I really do not mean to offend anyone.

Last year I paid a dealer to do the 10 hr on our 192 since I'm not much of a DIY type with engines and I was sure that there was some deeply complicated rocket science going on with the intermediate bearing lubrication process plus the dealer would surely be checking the boat over "aft to baft" for needed adjustments.
It turns out that the 10 hr is the most expensive oil change in the history of the free world!
Fast forward to yesterday, our 242 is due for the 10 hr and after much research on the subject I have concluded that there is nothing scientific about the 10 hr service. The entire intermediate bearing mystery is such bullshit, either Yamaha doesn't have any idea how to explain the process or the execs think the whole thing is just funny.
What I mean is:
1: yamaha makes the bearing, assembles the parts anyways, and they don't know how to properly maintain it? There are a million different posts on this subject, everyone's "yamaha service guy" says something different (mine said "squirt some grease in there once in awhile and you'll be fine") wow thanks Tommy Technical!
2: the general consensus on the forums is that these are sealed bearings and the grease is just a water seal to prevent intrusion and degradation of the bearing. There is no way to calculate (despite the overly complicated algorithms put forth on these forums on calculating the molecular weight of marine grease in zero gravity) the amount of grease to put in the damn things.
3: the information in the yamaha manual is suspect. Why? Consider the "break in period" conundrum on the engines. If we are supposed to observe this break in period (which I did to the letter, 5 minutes at this RPM, an hour at this one etc, as it states in the manual) then why do these boats have time on the motors when they are delivered? There is some evidence that all boats are tested before leaving the factory, both my Yamahas have had time on the engines when purchased new, so who does the break in period? This is some kind of "engine elf magic" or else just more bullshit put out by a company that builds a great product but lacks some skill in communicating with the end users.
We have several dealers on this forum, how about an opinion here?
Ok so back to the 10 hr. I went to the dealer and bought the filters, oil, and marine grease, got some puppy pads from the pet store, Attwood oil extractor from Wallymart, loaded up needed tools and headed to the marina.
Greased the bearings (two rules seem to apply, slowly inject grease and grease is better than no grease but don't overload the damn things) so I scientifically calculated 12 pumps on ye old grease gun was the precise amount to effect the desired result. I'll be periodically injecting 3 pumps of grease throughout each season so this seems to be about right. (Let the shouting begin on that statement)
Moved on to the oil change, ran the motors, spread the puppy pads, sucked all the oil from the port motor and bam I forgot the filter wrench. Back to the house for the wrench and completed the oil change on both motors. Cleaned up, ran the motors, checked levels, checked for leaks and we are good to go.
Seems to me a rather simple procedure (even for a mechanical dunce like me) to be such a pricey service in a dealership service bay.
One piece of advice, grease the bearings before you run the motors since you have to crawl into the engine bay to reach the zerc fittings. Spooning with a hot motor is not my idea of a good time. (I bear hugged the merc in my old 4winns several times on the water and dammit, burns hurt)
Long post, congrats for making it all the way through.
Just thought I would share a little.
Sorry.
I do love my boat, really, a great product.

I wasn't bored, but in the same predicament as you. Read all your post, and spot on, I'm following in your footsteps .

 

[Matt Phillips]

As for the break-in period, I'm with the previous poster...its a one-time deal for a few hours of running, then it's forgotten.

I have the MR-1 engines, so my set up is a little different than the 1.8s. On my boat, when greasing the bearing, I typically take the hose off, pump it full (6-10 pumps on yee ole grease gun), reinstall it, then give it a few more until it's firm. I also believe my manual says that fitting only needs greased seasonally however, I do it more often. On mine, I can hear them when they are dry...this is usually at idle speed and they start to sound like they have some BBs in a tin can. grease the bearings, and the sound goes away.

As for oil changes, I typically get oil and filters off Amazon...Prime delivery is a good thing. I also use K&N Filters on my boat. K&N is a pretty good brand and are used a lot in the motorcycle space...and they're about $10 each. I did a quick check on the K&N site and I see they have filters for 1800 Waverunners, so I'd imagine they have them for the boats (sorry, I don't know the engine model number on those boats to look it up properly).

Since you're doing your own service, another area I suggest you do on a regular basis is get some spray teflon grease. Use this on the nozzle pivot points as well as the reverse shift levers at the engines. Work the grease in pretty good. About two seasons ago, my steering started to get a little harder and "gravely" sounding. Since then I've been spraying the steering linkages on the back-side of the dash as well as the nut pivot points ... this keeps the steering much smoother.

Just a few things I've learned along the way.

 

[txav8r]

Service. It is really about worth. If it is worth it to you to climb around on the boat and do it yourself, and you feel your time is well spent doing so, anyone, mechanically inclined or not, meaning "you", can easily do the annual service...including the stinking intermediate housing bearing! Some don't want to get their hands dirty at all and have the money to never consider it. Others feel gouged and would on most things like that. All I have to say about that is get a motorhome and you will really know what gouging feels like! These boats are simple and I agree with @B_Mutter , that most dealers just want to provide you with a good experience. And they know that the bill is going to sting, so they try to make that feel worthwhile. But some dealers have a totally different attitude toward it and don't treat you that way from what I have read. But that is really hearsay because my dealer has always justified all expenses, it is just my choice if I want to pay him for the 4 hours to do it, or spend 6 to 8 hours and a couple beers to do it myself. I love my boat and spending that time is a day of enjoyment! And I end up knowing my boat better than the guy that doesn't do it himself.