Borrowed Boat, ran over weeds. Need advice. - SeaDoo Islandia Overheated, engine replaced

[macguyincali]

Hi all:

I'm posting here because I figured you guys would have the best advice, given that you're boat owners and I, a lowly non-boat owner, is seeking honest, frank advice on a situation that has put my friendship with a boat owner at risk.

Here's the situation:

So we went up to the lake with the family a little while ago. My friend had his motor boat (a jet impeller boat) at the marina and was gracious enough to offer it to us while we were at the lake. He had warned us that there might be some water accumulation in the engine compartment and that I should probably pump it out (by hand or using the bilge) before getting started. When we arrived, indeed there was a few inches of water in the engine compartment. He had given us a hand pump to take up to the boat and I used it to pump out the water. He said he thought the plug was loose but I turned it pretty tight and it didn't seem to be the issue.

Started the boat, following his instructions. My father in-law, who owned a boat for many years, accompanied me and was my trusty adviser. We got the boat out of the marina and headed over to the house we had rented which happened to have a slip. As we approached the slip it turns out there were a bunch of weeds by the slip and these were sucked into the engine. We tried to run it in reverse to clear the weeds. The boat started making unusual motor noises. We stopped, cut the engine and I jumped out and with goggles to go under the boat to clear out the grate which obviously had weeds blocking the intake. I cleared all the weeds and proceeded to start the boat and be on our way. After a few minutes, the boat did not sound very good and so we made the decision (a full 30 minutes after we had left the marina), to take the boat back and call it a day. It was running but something just didn't seem right. It didn't seem to have as much power. It eventually stalled and we had to wait to restart it to make some more headway to get it back to the marina.

Finally got it back to the slip. My buddy said don't worry about it. Said that the boat had had similar issues in the past and that he would have a mechanic look at it. That and the water accumulation in the engine compartment were issues the boat was having. I told him about the weed situation as well.

At any rate, a month later, I get a text from my buddy and he said that the starboard engine was toast. The mechanic said there was a combination of grass in the intake and a failing water pump. Mechanic said that both items probably caused the engine to overheat beyond repair. The engine is 9 years old, but it looks like it went through a war zone he said. Got so hot it melted the muffler, apparently.

At any rate, I'm asking for advice from the perspective of what is the reasonable amount I should offer him for what is likely my role in the destruction of the engine. And also what percentage of this problem was due to the weeds and what is due to a faulty water pump. Would the weed situation have caused as much damage had the water pump been working properly? I have no idea. I do know that people suck weeds into their boats pretty often and what I did to remedy it was what most boat owners do when in that situation. So... He got a $7K bill from the mechanic and he is definitely not suggesting that I am solely to blame for this situation but obviously wants to discuss this (over a beer or two). I don't think he's necessarily expecting me to split it with him, but I want to do whatever is fair. I just don't know much about boat engines especially jet boats.

So, all: how much should I offer? Am I 100% to blame, 75, 50%? And what should I contribute to helping him buy a new engine? Thanks for hearing me out folks. Feel free to lambast me for my stupidity. I feel like an ass and should have been more careful with the weeds and I feel bad that I put my friend in this position. And now I'm going to be out a bunch of money for not even 30 minutes of boating. You live and you learn, I guess.

Thanks again.

 

[Bruce]

I am impressed that you want to step up to cover some of the damages.

Do you know the make and model of the boat? This should help us understand the situation. For example Yamaha jet boats do not have water pumps.

In general I would consider a boat that is sitting in a slip with water leaking into the bilge needing to be pumped out by hand to be poorly maintained.

 

[captras]

I feel for ya....tough call....However, the failing water pump is not your doing at all. The weeds.....who knows. I think, if I were you, I would just make the offer to assist and see what your friend expects. I sure as hell dont think you are totally responsible, and since the engine/boat was 9 years old and obviously already had problems, your part should not be excessive, if any. I think, and this is just my opinion, he knew the boat already had problems, and should have never offered to let you borrow the boat, thereby putting you in a bad position. Ultimately, I would NEVER borrow another man's boat, for exactly what has happened to you. No matter what, I would feel responsible because the boat was in my care. Similarly, I would NEVER loan my boat to anybody, friend or not, again, so as not to put them in that vulnerable situation! Good luck, and I hope this works out without compromising your friendship!

 

[bronze_10]

Well... it sucks but if I agreed to borrow a boat the. U take a certain amount of the responsibility of what happens... go talk with his and see where he is ... it's a life lesson for both of u...I know because I have been there a few times...

 

[macguyincali]

I am impressed that you want to step up to cover some of the damages.

Do you know the make and model of the boat? This should help us understand the situation. For example Yamaha jet boats do not have water pumps.

In general I would consider a boat that is sitting in a slip with water leaking into the bilge needing to be pumped out by hand to be poorly maintained.

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what kind of boat it is, but I'll see if I can find out. Not sure I should ask him as I don't want him to think I'm trying to weasel out of things.

Regarding wanting to step up, its a tough situation. I want to do what's right and I also just want to see what other reasonable people would do in my situation. I'm also in a bit of a cash crunch currently, so this has come at a very bad time for me. And I just want to make sure I make the right decision.

 

[Bruce]

Did you take any pictures of or on the boat? They might help us identify it.

Having twin engines and being 9 years old I would guess it is a Yamaha, SeaDoo or Sugar Sands boat. Having a water pump might point to a Sugar Sands with Mercury engines.

 

[MrMoose]

@macguyincali, as @Bruce said, if you can tell us what kind of boat it is (make, model, year would be perfect), then someone on the forum with experience can chime in and give you the perspective that you are looking for.
It's a tough situation, but you are wise to seek a balanced perspective before engaging your friend regarding steps forward.

 

[MrMoose]

Sorry for my previous post. I was typing while @macguyincali was posting. @macguyincali, if you proceed in a knowledgeable way and not a weasily way, I'm sure that your friend will understand. If you and your friend can share what you both understand to be the facts of the matter, I'm sure that you'll find a reasonable path forward.

 

[tdonoughue]

I, too, would be interested in what type of boat. That and: did the boat give some overheat warning? It seems very odd to me that the engine would be destroyed on your watch with no overheat alarm. Most computer-enabled engines (like on the Yamaha) will not only give a warning, but will go into a 'limp' mode if things get bad enough, then shut themselves down before damage is done.

Could weeds overheat an engine to the point of failure requiring replacement? I guess, but that seems very remote to me. As he indicated that there was a problem with the cooling system other than that (the water pump), sounds to me like that would be the primary issue. If that system was not operating optimally, then you add weeds, it would operate even less optimally. And, once you cleared the weeds, a suboptimal performing cooling system may not be able to catch up.

Just for completeness sake, you should also consider what the mechanic said. Did he work on the cooling system previously? If do, he could have an interest in mentioning the weeds (e.g. It's not my fault). Also, the water in the boat could be from a breach in the cooling system. Also something that would degrade performance and could lead to overheating.

Good that you want to take responsibility for your actions. I, too, applaud that. But there is a lot here to me that does not add up to you being much, or at all, at fault.

 

[macguyincali]

Not a lot of great pictures, but this is what we have.

 

[macguyincali]

Sorry for my previous post. I was typing while @macguyincali was posting. @macguyincali, if you proceed in a knowledgeable way and not a weasily way, I'm sure that your friend will understand. If you and your friend can share what you both understand to be the facts of the matter, I'm sure that you'll find a reasonable path forward.

I agree. I believe in getting a clear picture so him and I can have a frank discussion and do what's right. He was super cool to lend me his boat so I owe him that. Thanks for your input.

 

[Bruce]

I am pretty sure that is a SeaDoo Islandia.

 

[Bruce]

Here is an article that somewhat describes the cooling system https://blog.sea-doo.com/2012/01/18/doctor-doo-how-to-suck-less/

@DieselCamel, @veedubtek you guys have experience with the SeaDoo cooling system. What are your thoughts?

 

[swatski]

"At any rate, a month later, I get a text from my buddy and he said that the starboard engine was toast. The mechanic said there was a combination of grass in the intake and a failing water pump. Mechanic said that both items probably caused the engine to overheat beyond repair. The engine is 9 years old, but it looks like it went through a war zone he said. Got so hot it melted the muffler, apparently."

That boat has an Mercury outboard inside the engine bay, I believe, so it would have a water pump. But no matter what, if it overheated so badly, why wouldn't it activate the overheat alarm? Weeds or not weeds, you can always ingest things into the outboards cooling, and that alarm can be your only friend.
I don't know how else you could tell (other than looking at the pisser) unless you are really pushing it, which it does not sound like you were doing...

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[macguyincali]

"At any rate, a month later, I get a text from my buddy and he said that the starboard engine was toast. The mechanic said there was a combination of grass in the intake and a failing water pump. Mechanic said that both items probably caused the engine to overheat beyond repair. The engine is 9 years old, but it looks like it went through a war zone he said. Got so hot it melted the muffler, apparently."

That boat has an outboard inside the engine bay, I believe, so it would have a water pump. But no matter what, if it overheated so badly, why wouldn't it activate the overheat alarm? Weeds or not weeds, you can always ingest things into the outboards cooling, and that alarm can be your only friend.
I don't know how else you could tell (other than looking at the pisser) unless you are really pushing it, which it does not sound like you did.

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Thanks for your POV. Our interaction with the boat was so short. We rode it from marina to the house (about 25-30 minutes) and it was running fine. Got to our dock. Got the family on the boat. Then had the problem immediately as we left the dock to take the family for a ride. Maybe one or two minutes from pulling away, it didn't sound good and it stalled. Probably 50 feet from the slip. There were weeds in the water. We got towed back to slip to unload family. Cleaned out intakes and, after waiting for a bit, FIL and I rode the boat back to Marina (it was not running particularly well on the ride back, and stalled out a few times). So the window where the engine must have gotten damaged was literally the 1-2 minutes after pulling away from the slip. The ride back to the marina to return the boat was probably being done on one engine. It definitely was lacking in power. And after that, it would idle and stall out at the marina when we tried to troubleshoot it.

 

[Bruce]

That boat has an outboard inside the engine bay, I believe,

Are SeaDoo engines repurposed outboards or was that based on my earlier assumption that it was a Sugar Sands?

I agree with the position that the engine should have managed the overheat situation.

@DieselCamel had a cooling system failure that melted something in his similar aged SeaDoo. It happened very quickly but I believe his engine was fine.

I have twice overheated an engine in my 2007 Yamaha due to debris significantly clogging a jet. The first time it was trash and it scared us. The second time it was seaweeds clogging the grate and we knew it was not a big deal. When the engine became too warm the overheat light on the dash illuminated and the engine went into limp mode limiting maximum RPM. No harm was done either time.

Personally I would not hold a friend responsible if they borrowed a car or truck and the engine or transmission failed while they were driving. That is very different than an accident that was their fault.

As for this situation it seems that the issue is whether this is in anyway your fault. You knew you needed to remove the weeds so I assume your friend had advised you of that possibility? The water pump was a maintenance issue that was not related to your use of the boat. What I do not know and we may never be able to know is how much harm was done by the seaweed while you were using the boat and how much overheating had occurred before you were in the boat. It seems to me that you walked into a bad situation.

Hopefully members with SeaDoo overheating experience will contribute their thoughts. I am going to edit the title of this thread to bring more attention. The forum has much more activity during the week when we are off of the water so I expect you will see more responses then.

 

[Bruce]

I believe this is a rebuilt engine for that model for $1800 http://www.shopsbt.com/jetski/sea-doo-engine-premium-4-tec-na-155-gtx-2000-2005.html

 

[swatski]

I'm pretty sure Islandias run Mercury outboards. They are notorious for being difficult to impossible to work on, as there is not space.

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[macguyincali]

Are SeaDoo engines repurposed outboards or was that based on my earlier assumption that it was a Sugar Sands?

I agree with the position that the engine should have managed the overheat situation.

@DieselCamel had a cooling system failure that melted something in his similar aged SeaDoo. It happened very quickly but I believe his engine was fine.

I have twice overheated an engine in my 2007 Yamaha due to debris significantly clogging a jet. The first time it was trash and it scared us. The second time it was seaweeds clogging the grate and we knew it was not a big deal. When the engine became too warm the overheat light on the dash illuminated and the engine went into limp mode limiting maximum RPM. No harm was done either time.

Personally I would not hold a friend responsible if they borrowed a car or truck and the engine or transmission failed while they were driving. That is very different than an accident that was their fault.

As for this situation it seems that the issue is whether this is in anyway your fault. You knew you needed to remove the weeds so I assume your friend had advised you of that possibility? The water pump was a maintenance issue that was not related to your use of the boat. What I do not know and we may never be able to know is how much harm was done by the seaweed while you were using the boat and how much overheating had occurred before you were in the boat. It seems to me that you walked into a bad situation.

Hopefully members with SeaDoo overheating experience will contribute their thoughts. I am going to edit the title of this thread to bring more attention. The forum has much more activity during the week when we are off of the water so I expect you will see more responses then.

Thanks Bruce. Really appreciate everyone's input. Despite this bummer of a situation, I am impressed with the boating community in general (the guy who towed us in, you guys with your input on the forum). It is a wonderful pastime and I hope to be able to join the boat owning community one day, despite what happened.

 

[swatski]

Thanks Bruce. Really appreciate everyone's input. Despite this bummer of a situation, I am impressed with the boating community in general (the guy who towed us in, you guys with your input on the forum). It is a wonderful pastime and I hope to be able to join the boat owning community one day, despite what happened.

That's the spirit !

And here is my 0.02. If I were in your shoes, I would want to know what would happen if this was a rental boat and you were renting it for a fee from a rental company. Would they/could they hold you accountable for the engine's meltdown, assuming a similar scenario of events in the water.
A best answer to these questions would help me guide my approach with my buddy.

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