Finally started my stereo upgrade... Have a few questions

[Dave burke]

After planning for two years and buying most of the equipment over a year ago, I’ve finally started doing the work. And I started off making a dumb mistake. More on this later...

Current stock set up (2017 212X):

- Polk Head unit and wired remote control on swim platform
- 2 Polk db651 speakers in bow
- 2 Polk db651 speakers Mid-cabin
- 2 Polk db521 speakers in swim platform
- WS Stealth 10 soundbar in tower
- Polk sub
- Polk 5000.5 5 channel amp
- bow & mid-cabin speakers wired in series to front channels; swim platform and soundbar in series to rear channels

Planned set up

- run new knukoncept wire to all speakers
- keep all Polk speakers except the sub
- add two db651s to the helm area
- replace sub with JL M10IB5
- add two Polk 4000.4 amps @125w per channel
- add WS420SQ
- move amps under helm and mount on a board like @Mainah and others have done

My questions:

1. I started by cutting holes for the new speakers using a 5” hole saw. Began by drilling a pilot hole and checked depth. Then started the drill in reverse as suggested by @Julian. Port side went just fine but starboard not so much. I ended up cutting two wires, an RCA cable (no big deal since I’m replacing them) and the wire from the HU to the swim platform remote. This was really stupid and I realized in retrospect that had I stuck my nose deep in the helm cabinet, I could have seen that the wires were right up against the backside of the fiberglass.

Question - has anybody tried to splice this wire together? It’s a four pin connector. Or do I have to run a new wire?

2. I’m planning on using one 4000.4 amp for the four cabin speakers, another for the bow speakers and soundbar and two channels from the 5000.5 for the swim platform speakers and sub. I was originally thinking of another set up but then one of the rear channels in the 5000.5 went bad so decided to go this route. I think it’s a better way to go anyway since the 5000.5 is only 70w per channel and the swim platform speakers are smaller and lower rated.

Question - does this make sense? Any better alternatives?

3. I’d like to have four zones (bow, cabin, swim platform and tower) and the WS420 only has three (boat, tower, sub). I’m thinking of connecting the bow speakers to the front channels of the HU, using the “Boat” zone in the WS420 for the cabin speakers and using the “Subwoofer” zone for the swim platform speakers. I have a line level controller for the sub already included with the 5000.5 so not sure I need to run the sub through the WS420.

Question - could this work? Is there a better way? I’ve seen from different posts that others have created four zones but I couldn’t follow how they did it.

4. I was thinking of buying an inexpensive oscilloscope to tune the amps and the WS420. I know @jcyamaharider and others use an SMD DD-1 but I don’t want to spend $150 ideally. The oscilloscope I’m looking at is this one, $42 bucks:

Amazon.com: Quimat Updated 2.4" TFT Digital Oscilloscope Kit with Power Supply and BNC-Clip Cable Probe Q15001 (Assembled Finished Machine): Industrial & Scientific

Amazon.com: Quimat Updated 2.4" TFT Digital Oscilloscope Kit with Power Supply and BNC-Clip Cable Probe Q15001 (Assembled Finished Machine): Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

Question - is something this cheap just a waste of money or will it do the job? Any other recommendations?

Thanks as always for any advice. I’ve learned a ton from this forum and will post pictures as I go.

 

[Cambo]

Having multiple zones in my system has helped with overall sound ,having adjustability and ease of tuning . The wet sounds eq is great that it has the pa I use it when giving instructions and praise to good riding skills it always puts a smile on faces of the passengers. For the system install 2 eqs were installed one to the front rca one to the rear rca . This also allows for easy upgrades if you need to add anything like more subs the open air sound stage requires triple of what a normal car audio system would need . If you need it I have an extra remote cable let me know just pay shipping .

 

[Cambo]

Two Eqs mounted in a radio holder allows easy tuning does not interfere with knee space. The second eq was from american base it has a volt meter this controls all of the cabin speakers and polk subwoofer the eq is only $65 add a few rca cables and you have total control of all speakers. This is my 3rd multi amp boat sound system and I have had about 10 car audio multi amp systems. Something else that is helpful is a cheap label maker label both ends of all rca wires , speaker wires and the amp board during the install






One sound bar is nice 2 are even better

 

[Cambo]

Two Eqs mounted in a radio holder allows easy tuning does not interfere with knee space. The second eq was from american base it has a volt meter this controls all of the cabin speakers and polk subwoofer the eq is only $65 add a few rca cables and you have total control of all speakers. This is my 3rd multi amp boat sound system and I have had about 10 car audio multi amp systems. Something else that is helpful is a cheap label maker label both ends of all rca wires , speaker wires and the amp board during the install


View attachment 105391

One sound bar is nice 2 are even better

 

[Mainah]

After planning for two years and buying most of the equipment over a year ago, I’ve finally started doing the work. And I started off making a dumb mistake. More on this later...

Current stock set up (2017 212X):

- Polk Head unit and wired remote control on swim platform
- 2 Polk db651 speakers in bow
- 2 Polk db651 speakers Mid-cabin
- 2 Polk db521 speakers in swim platform
- WS Stealth 10 soundbar in tower
- Polk sub
- Polk 5000.5 5 channel amp
- bow & mid-cabin speakers wired in series to front channels; swim platform and soundbar in series to rear channels

Planned set up

- run new knukoncept wire to all speakers
- keep all Polk speakers except the sub
- add two db651s to the helm area
- replace sub with JL M10IB5
- add two Polk 4000.4 amps @125w per channel
- add WS420SQ
- move amps under helm and mount on a board like @Mainah and others have done

My questions:

1. I started by cutting holes for the new speakers using a 5” hole saw. Began by drilling a pilot hole and checked depth. Then started the drill in reverse as suggested by @Julian. Port side went just fine but starboard not so much. I ended up cutting two wires, an RCA cable (no big deal since I’m replacing them) and the wire from the HU to the swim platform remote. This was really stupid and I realized in retrospect that had I stuck my nose deep in the helm cabinet, I could have seen that the wires were right up against the backside of the fiberglass.

Question - has anybody tried to splice this wire together? It’s a four pin connector. Or do I have to run a new wire?

2. I’m planning on using one 4000.4 amp for the four cabin speakers, another for the bow speakers and soundbar and two channels from the 5000.5 for the swim platform speakers and sub. I was originally thinking of another set up but then one of the rear channels in the 5000.5 went bad so decided to go this route. I think it’s a better way to go anyway since the 5000.5 is only 70w per channel and the swim platform speakers are smaller and lower rated.

Question - does this make sense? Any better alternatives?

3. I’d like to have four zones (bow, cabin, swim platform and tower) and the WS420 only has three (boat, tower, sub). I’m thinking of connecting the bow speakers to the front channels of the HU, using the “Boat” zone in the WS420 for the cabin speakers and using the “Subwoofer” zone for the swim platform speakers. I have a line level controller for the sub already included with the 5000.5 so not sure I need to run the sub through the WS420.

Question - could this work? Is there a better way? I’ve seen from different posts that others have created four zones but I couldn’t follow how they did it.

4. I was thinking of buying an inexpensive oscilloscope to tune the amps and the WS420. I know @jcyamaharider and others use an SMD DD-1 but I don’t want to spend $150 ideally. The oscilloscope I’m looking at is this one, $42 bucks:

Amazon.com: Quimat Updated 2.4" TFT Digital Oscilloscope Kit with Power Supply and BNC-Clip Cable Probe Q15001 (Assembled Finished Machine): Industrial & Scientific

Amazon.com: Quimat Updated 2.4" TFT Digital Oscilloscope Kit with Power Supply and BNC-Clip Cable Probe Q15001 (Assembled Finished Machine): Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

Question - is something this cheap just a waste of money or will it do the job? Any other recommendations?

Thanks as always for any advice. I’ve learned a ton from this forum and will post pictures as I go.

The remote wire you cut carries canbus data and low current power. Splicing would work if done right but I would recommend replacing. I have never seen a oscope that cheap. I bet it is not calibrated. Calibration is not a huge deal if only looking at single tone audio wave form. You can check voltage with a good DMM to ensure not sending too much to each component. You could also get a cheap adjustable buck converter to use for somewhat accurate calibration. This is all assuming that out of the box everything is close enough that it can lock in on the tone you are sending.

I am am not familiar enough with the ws420 to know if the sub channel can output full range. If it can’t your plan won’t work that way but perhaps use the 420 to control the sub and the seperate knob to control a different amp. I am running my bow and swim deck direct off the headunit with inline speaker level bass blockers. We do a lot of tow sports with the stereo cranked and this makes the bow a place to get away from it being so loud. I have found for me that the bow and swim deck being quieter works very well. My main cabin speakers are amped and tuned with my JL DSP as are my subs and towers. I can control each of those with just one programmed knob but find I am really only adjusting the tower speakers between half gain for cruising and full gain for tow sports with everything balanced so well in the dsp. I am not saying you need a JL dsp but rather that may give you some ideas on how to employ a ws420 if you use the head unit to power the bow and swim deck. It also eliminates the need for one amp. On the other hand a dsp with multiple channels and finely adjustable crossover slopes can really balance out and maximize a system. Beware the one I landed on was designed for a car and the first thing I did after verifying it worked was to tear it apart and brush on conformal coating being careful as to where I applied the coating. DSP are becoming more popular and some other reputable brands have some black box style units out there.

Good luck.

Perhaps check out this thread. https://jetboaters.net/threads/dsp-audio-tuning-for-audio-geeks.21157/page-2

PS @Cambo has enough speakers in the cabin to cause instant hearing loss. I bet it sounds awesome.

 

[Dave burke]

Thx guys. Very helpful info. I’ll check out the link you sent me @Mainah. Hopefully others who have used the WS420 sub zone for a different purpose will comment.

@Cambo, I’ll take you up on your offer on the cable. Much appreciated. Can you PM me with the shipping cost and I’ll send you a check. Many thanks.

 

[Cambo]

The knob labeled as bass on the eq has an inner ring and outer knob the outer knob controls Bass equalizer at 100 Hz the inner ring controls the Frequency adjustment / crossover point maybe if it was turned up all the way it could run full range but the eq is still boosting or lowering the 100Hz band. It probably wouldn't work you would be better off with an RCA spliter and if you were going to buy a sub knob you should just get another cheap EQ eq and tuck it away. One thing the polk amps are missing that a lot of other have is an RCA line out . Maybe look into other amp options that have a line out Marine amps are not a necessity I have run regular car amps for years with no issues

 

[Dave burke]

Sorry for not not being responsive guys. I’m at my cottage with no Wi-Fi and can only get web access through my phone hotspot which has been acting up.

So far I’ve almost put together my amp board (see pic below) and pulled both power wires and all the speaker wires except for the soundbar in the tower because I ran out of wire. Ordered more wire from KnuKoncepts and it came in today. Weather looks ok for tomorrow so hopefully that will be done tomorrow.

@Mainah and @Cambo, you’ve both made some good suggestions. I did look at your DSP thread @Mainah but I’m kinda committed to the equipment I have because I bought it all last year. Taking this fact into account as well as your comments, here’s my latest thinking:

- use one Polk 4000.4 for the four cabin speakers. Connect this up to the “Boat” output of the WS-420-EQ
- use the other Polk 4004.4 for the soundbar and the swim platform speakers. Connect this to the “Tower” output of the WS-420-EQ.
- Add a Line level controller to the swim platform channels to allow me to control these speakers independently of the soundbar
- Use the “Subwoofer” output on the WS-420-EQ the way it is designed to be used and connect the Subwoofer inputs on the 5000.5 to the WS-420-EQ subwoofer outputs. @Cambo I did contact Wet Sounds and they told me the Subwoofer output is full range but based on your advice, I think this approach is preferable
- connect the two front channels of the 5000.5 to the bow speakers. I won’t have any equalizer control through the WS-420-EQ so in the future I’ll consider adding the equalizer you suggested @Cambo

Any thoughts are welcome of course.

@Mainah, based on your comments, I won’t buy the oscope for now. I do have a pretty good DMM. What is an adjustable buck converter. I looked this up but didn’t really understand the explanation.
.

 

[Cambo]

Couple of things that should help you tailor the stereo to your needs. If you are into wake sports you will want a zone with a quick control for volume to be able to get the volume up or down to over power the motors and project some music out the back. With all those speakers they will over power one sub you can add an additional sub the polk amp sub channel is 1ohm stable. On your model boat im not sure of the amp board placement but removing the front seat allowed a nice spot to secure an amp board on the 242 boats. Drilling holes is great for cable managament on the amp board and get good RCA cables.

 

[swatski]

https://jetboaters.net/attachments/20190703_120511_1562176984069_resized-jpg.105396/

Wow, I love the remote moved there!! Was it difficult to move?

That would give my admiral the override powers, she would love it.

—

 

[Cambo]

This was a necessity the knob on the swim deck remote does not hold up well in salt water . The 2005 had a push button remote that worked perfectly for the 14 years that the boat was used in salt water so the MARC200 is the style that should have been installed in that location.

Post #20, 33 and 43 have the info about the remote relocation

If you play in fresh water you could add the MARC200 remote very easily in that location . I added one in the bow as well relocating it was kind of difficult due to the hole that is left behind and the removal process all the info was listed in this post

https://jetboaters.net/threads/wired-remote-for-factory-radio.16343/page-2

 

[Dave burke]

Good suggestions @Cambo, thx. I’m going to put the board behind the helm but unfortunately the seat back on the 212 is mounted on a solid piece of fiberglass which can’t be removed. So I’m going to have to contort myself a lot!

 

[Dave burke]

I like how you did your board. Can you move it easily to access the electronics behind it?

 

[swatski]

@Cambo thank you, great mod, I don't know how I missed that!

It should come with the extension wire I'm not sure why they have marc 100 and marc 200 you will need the Y cable . It mounts through the face with screws and 40mm hole needed for the back. The salt water destroys the knob on the polk pa4a control mine was replaced under warranty and I relocated it on the 242X-e

Just be carful of relocating the pa4a control there is a wire harness in that location I drilled holes and used the fein saw and just missed it

View attachment 99638

Installed a table mount and filled the hole with plywood and used silicone to seal it installed the marc200 up higher

View attachment 99640

View attachment 99641

 

[Dave burke]

Have now run all the wires and put the amp board in place. It was not easy to do because of the awkward working area and the fact that three Polk amps are pretty heavy.

I started by mounting the hinges on the board, and drilled one pilot hole in the back of the helm. From there, I laid down about 5-6 2ft 2x6 boards on the floor of the cabin. I then lifted the amp board on top of the 2x6s and was able to manoeuvre the hinge close to the pilot hole with one hand and drive the screw with my impact driver in the other.

I then lifted the board level, held the far hinge against the back of the helm, marked one of the screw holes, let the board down to rest of the 2x6s while I drilled a pilot hole, lifted the board back in place and drove a screw in the pilot hole.

From there it was pretty easy to to drill four more pilot holes and drive the screws. I used solid brass 3-hole hinges. Tried to get stainless hinges but nobody carries them locally.

Not sure how many people have used HDPE board (I know @Mainah did because he gave me the idea) but while it’s great to mount things on, the edges are a little sharp and it’s also slippery. Probably should have beveled the edges in retrospect.

Next step is to pull all the speaker and power wires through the holes in the board and connect them to the amps.

I’ll post more pictures as well as a bunch of pictures of the wire pulling experience in the next few days.

 

[Dave burke]

Connected up the power and turn on wire and checked to see if everything is working. Was happy to see three blue lights!

Will set the amp voltage and connect the speaker wires tomorrow.

 

[Hoyt]

Looking really good. Love that amp rack