Float Plane - Danger?!

[spatty99]

Sounds like poor piloting, although the pilot licensing process is so intense that this should never happen. Definitely think the FAA reporting is the way to go.

 

[upperdeck]

I'm guessing that the float plane pilot is on his forum complaining about us violating on the lakes as well. It's my understanding that float planes have right of way when landing. Navigating upon the water may be another story.

 

[tracerrx]

I'm guessing that the float plane pilot is on his forum complaining about us violating on the lakes as well. It's my understanding that float planes have right of way when landing. Navigating upon the water may be another story.

I'm sure he's complaining as well! But in reality, as a "boater" how are you supposed to anticipate a plane dropping out of a low cloud ceiling and give way? It's just unreasonable.

 

[Coheeba]

Its called the law of gross tonnage

 

[tracerrx]

Its called the law of gross tonnage

Then we win no? Im just guessing that a Yamaha 212 full of gas, 8 people, 2 engines weighs more than a two seater puddle jumper... Confirmed via wikipedia:

LA-4-200 Buccaneer

• Gross weight: 2690 lb (1220 kg)

 

[upperdeck]

In the rule book, the FAR/AIM, 91.115 calls out that the airplane follows the same rules upon the water as other boats. It doesn't get specific about landing however.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/REGULATORY_AND_GUIDANCE_LIBRARY\RGFAR.NSF/0/2EA99FD06D59A9BC852566CF00614DEA

As far as the aviation radio goes, as mentioned above, are not able to tune to marine frequencies. I doubt a pilot would carry a marine radio on a small inland lake, but I'm not a seaplane pilot either.

 

[tracerrx]

@upperdeck And im just going to guess that were not allowed to transmit on airplane guard freq, even if we had a radio.

Someone didnt think this through!

 

[upperdeck]

121.5 is for reporting emergencies. the frequency you're looking for is called a ctaf, or common traffic advisory frequency. Public airports that do not have towers all have ctaf frequencies in order for airplanes to self announce their intentions to surrounding aircraft. But, since a lake is not an airport, I don't think they have this ctaf freq. The exception being a fixed and designated seabase. I'll add again though, I'm not a seaplane pilot.

 

[GMAN2015]

In the rule book, the FAR/AIM, 91.115 calls out that the airplane follows the same rules upon the water as other boats. It doesn't get specific about landing however.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/REGULATORY_AND_GUIDANCE_LIBRARY\RGFAR.NSF/0/2EA99FD06D59A9BC852566CF00614DEA

As far as the aviation radio goes, as mentioned above, are not able to tune to marine frequencies. I doubt a pilot would carry a marine radio on a small inland lake, but I'm not a seaplane pilot either.

I read the same thing. It's very vague on distances they need to maintain from swimmers or vehicles in the water. I still think they should make a low pass to observe vessels in the area prior to an approach to land. That is smart piloting and what pilots must do flying VFR today if they plan to land at a rural airport with no tower. Treat bodies of water the same.

 

[MNdrifter]

Unless the lake has a charted IFR approach(very few do), a plane shouldn't be in the clouds at all during a landing

 

[Gym]

The aircraft pictured appears to be a Lake Amphibian. No general aviation aircraft operating under FAR part 91 is required to have a radio unless operating in controlled airspace. They also don't utilize the marine band as previously stated. Even then they can reserve a timeslot for landing with the controlling agency. I'm pretty sure the lake doesn't have a control tower or underly controlled airspace.

That being said it is a generally accepted practice to fly a full pattern when landing at an uncontrolled site. I think a call to the flight school would be your best bet as they shouldn't be reinforcing bad habits to their students.

 

[tracerrx]

@Gym Thanks... I will reach out to them, just need a couple more days to cool off first. I still find it crazy that there is no requirement to fly over or announce...

 

[Gym]

@Gym Thanks... I will reach out to them, just need a couple more days to cool off first. I still find it crazy that there is no requirement to fly over or announce...

I agree with you. I'm wondering if that lake is a designated water landing strip on the aeronautical charts or if the local flight school just uses it because it's close by. In any event, I applaud your resolve. Let us know how it works out as it may be instructional for the rest of us.

 

[Scott E]

Couple guys on our lake in the Adirondacks fly in, they always circle once and then line up for their normal landing spots. Guessing it never crossed this guys mind that someone could be in the water.

 

[tracerrx]

Just an update, USCGSoutheast (via twitter):

"The Coast Guard does not enforce regulations on planes, but this situation does bring up several questions on seaplanes monitoring their required VHF-FM radio and the notification requirements for seaplanes before they commence an at-sea landing. We will reach out to the FAA for clarification on this. Please contact the Coast Guard with amplifying information if you witness any more unsafe practices."​

At least they replied.

 

[upperdeck]

I searched a bit and couldn't find anything... What is the required distance to be kept from a ski boat in Florida? Only mention of any regulation is regarding a diver down flag (scuba). It's a moot point if there is no law requiring a minimum distance from skiers.

 

[tracerrx]

Regardless, 25-30 yards between a person and an airplane is way too close in my opinion. They keep people much further away from runways no?

 

[upperdeck]

It isn't uncommon for an airplane to wait only 10 yards or so from the runway while waiting for landing aircraft.

But how do you enforce a law if it isn't quantified? If I want to write a speeding ticket, I would have to know your speed and the posted limit. I imagine the same would apply if approaching a skier.

 

[tracerrx]

@upperdeck I don't disagree, and I understand, but if it was your 13 year old daughter who had dropped in the water, and you were turning to pick here up, and a plane landed that close to her you may feel different!

 

[upperdeck]

I'm not at all disagreeing with your concern. I'm looking at it from an enforcement perspective, that's all.