From SeaDoo 230, to Scarab, Yamaha, or Chaparral?

[PointeAuB JetBoater]

Sorry if there's a better section to post, but I'm looking for open and honest feedback from several brand owners at once. I'm a new member here, who after reading through a few hundred pages of threads has realized this place is a pretty awesome resource for all types of jet boat owners

Until a few weeks ago, I owned a 2007 Challenger 230 SE, which I loved… and hated. The very short version is, after a year of research I purchased it used ~3-yrs ago, reconditioned and cleaned it up, installed hydro-turf, Fusion stereo, Garmin, etc, etc, then after a great summer and a half, found out the previous owner had the hull crack open on him, 5–feet on both sides, then had knowingly done a quicky patch job before selling it it to me. I found out by having both sides of the hull re-open. In the end, I sold it as is, with full disclosure of everything wrong with it, while going through the process of learning of a lot of other similar larger SeaDoo owner’s hull crack experiences.

Aside from the nightmare my boat turned into, I’m still completely sold on jet boats, as well as on the BRP bits (I love my BRP ATV as well), but I did loose a lot of confidence in SeaDoo boats, due to the numerous hull related stories I’ve been told since having my issues. I therefore have set my sights on Yamaha, Scarab, and possibly Chaparral for my next family toy.

Even though I’ve done a lot of reading in here, it seems that the kinds of opinions I’m looking for only come out when direct questions are asked, and when the perspective of the inquirer is understood…

So with no offence intended to any other owners, from MY perspective SO FAR;

- BRP probably has the better (more proven?) engine, and has the nozzle system that I think I would prefer (never driven a Yamaha boat, but I loved the way my SeaDoo handled).
- Yamaha has a fantastic dealer network, and is known for precision and quality control, but are not quite the “Mercedes” of boats (I also owned a few Yamaha supersport motorcycles that I loved!)
- Scarab seems to have the best design features, and looks, and if I hadn’t read nightmare stories about quality control, I wouldn’t need to write this…
- Chaparral seems like a slightly less edgy, but possibly more sophisticated version of Scarab?… but honestly I’m having a difficult time placing it into a hierarchy. Some aspects like the swim platform seem less modern, but other aspects seem “higher end”?

To be honest, my 23.5’ was a bit more boat than we needed. I went in with the “go big or go home” mentality, then decided to be more honest with myself as to what we really needed. From here I think a twin 300hp 21’ would be my dream boat, but a newer pre-owned 19’ single is probably the best option for my next venture.

For some further perspective, I’m a 41yr old father of 4, 8-13yrs old and about to become teenagers, I spend my boating time in the Parry Sound area of Ontario navigating through small islands and introducing the kids to watersports. I own a small business, am fairly mechanically inclined, have a practical 7-seater SUV for the family, but drive a tuned up Mustang myself - just for the fun of it… the Scarab seems like the perfect boat for the family guy who drives an immature car like a Mustang… if it didn’t have a horrible online record of design flaws, and quality control issues.

Anyone feel like sharing some of their perspective on where I should be aiming for next? Any input would be greatly appreciated

I've been to a few Toronto boat shows, and will be going this winter with the hopes of coming to a final decision for next spring.

 

[tdonoughue]

First off, welcome! I think you will probably find the vast majority of folks here have Yamaha's, but certainly not exclusively. I hope we can provide you good input to your decision. Thanks for posting about your use profile and family situation--that makes it easier to give some more directed comments.

Obviously I have a Yamaha. One factor in my decision is the relative bullet-proof-ness of the engine. Yes, there have been some gaps (oil cooler issues, timing chain issues) on some years, but the engines in our boats are the same in the WaveRunners and have lots of life on them (and lots of parts available). I have had almost no problems at all with mine (knock on wood)--the maintenance is dirt simple (especially if you have worked on Mustangs) and the engines just work. Even the jet part is simple.

I would contest that Yamaha has the precision and quality control down. To the contrary, I (and many others) got the boat and then had to deal with a speaker that does not work, loose screws and bolts, ports in the bow that don't match up, leaking rub rail, etc. Nothing that would sink the boat, but equally nothing that you should have to put up with dropping this much money on a boat. That said, as a bit of a shade tree mechanic myself, I fixed and tightened many of these issues myself (faster and easier than pulling the boat back to the dealer...).

I would point to the layout of the Yamaha as one of its high points, especially for your use and family. My boys love the bow area; adults like the aft. Everyone likes the swim deck area and how easy it is to get over the transom (relative to other boats). We interviewed the 21' Yamaha, but the bow is just a little smaller. Other brands we saw at boat shows did not have half the flexibility and comfort of what we bought.

Finally, those of us who tow (and sounds like you will), know the perils of sucking up a tow rope. Whether a rope or gunk from the lake, having the ability to drop an anchor and pull the plugs to reach in and clear what is there is a huge benefit. Mind you, it is not always easy nor quick. But it can be done and done without pulling the boat out and ruining the day at the lake. I know the claim about the sheath around the shaft on other brands. Frankly, just don't believe it much given how quickly these engines rev. Something will get in there and get stuck. I had a piece of wood jam between the impeller and the ring. No sheath will help that.

Best of luck in your search and if we can assist, do let us know.

 

[mdchachi]

If you're used to the 23 footer and have four kids plus their friends, you may find 19' insufficient. Max passengers is 8.

 

[PointeAuB JetBoater]

Thanks guys! I’ve had my Yamaha bikes stripped down to the frame, and can attest to the precision they’re capable of, so sorry if it sounded like I was questioning them... I just also have a lot of confidence in the Rotax engine, and outside of their hulls... BRP in general. Im pretty convinced that my CanAm ATV is one of the best available (based on hours of group riding with other brands), and have a ton of respect for their SeaDoos, SkiDoos as well.

We bought the 24’ thinking we’d be spending more time with the extended family than we did, but now I’m pretty sure a 19-21’ will do us for the next few years then we’ll go from there

I’m a bit “scared” of the Yammi reverse system, and higher speed larger turning radius... both aspects were awesome in my SeaDoo IMO, for a decent size boat.

I also have two fantastic Yamaha dealerships to choose from, but not so much with Scarab... but I do have a great BRP dealership 10min away... so not sure how much I should let that affect things.

I have had the joy of sucking up a rope, hobbling back on a single engine, pulling it out onto the trailer, and spending 2hrs under it with makeshift tools and cutters... Then another time as well when a thick bullrush got sucked in, so I do have interest in the Yamaha ports IF they really do make things much easier... but I’ve also heard mixed reviews on that... just like the sheath design.

We’ve had some great fun with multiple inflatables, and knee boards, and are ready to start into wake boarding now, but I don’t plan on considering a full on wake ballast setup, with overkill power until our 3rd boat

Aside from towing, the rest of our boating time is split between cruising around through the lakes, and floating/swimming off the back. Although Yamaha brags a lot about their swim deck area, and at the risk of offending the majority here on the great forum that’s one of the aspects I prefer so far on the scarab (I spent about an hour sitting on the 19 and 24’ Yammi’s at the dealership las week). Nothing at all wrong with the Yamahas... they’re a fantastic looking and feeling (to sit in) boat, they’re just a little “plain” feeling compared to the fit and finish of Scarab IMHO.

After writing all this I’m realizing I really need to drive one to answer some of my questions. I’m assuming the Scarab handles similarly to the SeaDoos I have experience with (spent a lot of time in a Speedster a while back also), but am going off online research so far on how the Yamaha handles. Looked a lot into the JetBoatPilot products, (which seem to be less necessary on BRP?) and just understanding the mechanical design of the reverse gases.

Thanks again, and any further input is very welcomed

 

[tdonoughue]

Yes, I think you need to drive some boats! If you look on the user map, you can actually locate members near you. I am sure someone would be willing to take you out. If you want to come down, happy to let you drive mine (once it is fixed--my fault, not Yamaha's--long story on another thread here somewhere...).

Oh, but one thing: I have 3 boys. We went with the AR240. Did not regret going to that size, especially when we bring out another family or when each boy wants to bring a friend or...

 

[mdchachi]

BRP is not in the boat business any more which is a negative. But if you have a dealer that will work on them then maybe that's moot.
The mechanic I was going to with my 2001 SeaDoo Utopia stopped working on them completely which was one factor to me selling it and getting the Yamaha.
I don't know anything about Scarab but I agree they look sharp in the pictures. But I'm the kind of guy who would buy a Camry over a Mustang, depending on what Consumer Reports says. Besides the overall look, I would encourage you to open all the compartments and consider storage capability.

Regarding handling, the JetBoatPilot products are reported to improve forward & reverse handling at nowake speeds. By design they don't do anything at speed.
The Cobra products do both. I haven't used either yet but if you look hard enough you may find a few threads about both of them on here.

 

[props2you]

This is not intended to sound snotty in any way, if you have a chance to ride in each of the brands you will more than likely land in a Yamaha. I had the opportunity to do so between selling my 2010 242 before purchasing my new 242 LSE. Granted, I was slightly biased to Yamaha, but also owed it to myself to check out the other brands. Scarab's F&F is pretty solid, looks sharp has nice lines and design, the power plant issues concerned me. Chap's were too "stiff" to me, yes they are Chaparral, but too rigid on the design and lots of little things overlooked from the consumer perspective. BRP is out of the boat business, motor biz yes, not boats.

So, this lead me back to Yamaha, the overall ergonomics and layout is pretty superb. I remember with my 2010 thinking of many things they could improve on from the consumer perspective, little things that make boating easier, convenient. I will say, Yamaha does listen to their customer surveys and responses and adjusts accordingly. I give a LOT of tours when out on the water to other boaters, mostly older prop guys that are curious and they are all shocked when they leave. Even though I'm seeing more and more Yamaha jet boats out and about, I think there are still some pretty big misconceptions out there about them. As previously mentioned, there are aftermarket products out there to help with control, but, like anything else, comfort comes with time behind the wheel.

For the investment, you won't regret going bigger over time. you'd be surprised how fast you can cap out on the 19's. Your "investment" would last longer with going big up front versus losing your arse on trade in in a couple years as your family grows. I have a 10 and 12 yo boys and can already see the friends coming out, that's only gonna get worse as they grow!

My recommendation is if you have the opportunity to ride in each, do it and draw your own conclusions. Different strokes for different folks, and my strokes may be different than yours.

 

[Weeb]

I agree with the statements that you should get a 24’er with the size of your family if you can. I usually go out with four people which is comfortable to move around. Usually when there’s more than that we take my daughters tri toon. I looked at all the boats you are but didn’t drive them. I ultimately went with the Yamaha because of the clean out ports knowing from a previous jet boat and wave runner they could be real handy. Plus I owned multiple Yamaha products before that never let me down. You said you had two Yamaha dealers near you so that’s helpful. There’s two companies on here that drastically change the handling of the Yamaha’s in my opinion so a test drive without them isn’t apples to apples. It seems most of the issues with the other boats from what I’ve read is the boat itself not the engines so make sure you have coverage there. In the end you have to go with what fits your needs and service abilities. Good luck.

 

[biffdotorg]

BRP is not in the boat business any more which is a negative. But if you have a dealer that will work on them then maybe that's moot.
The mechanic I was going to with my 2001 SeaDoo Utopia stopped working on them completely which was one factor to me selling it and getting the Yamaha.
I don't know anything about Scarab but I agree they look sharp in the pictures. But I'm the kind of guy who would buy a Camry over a Mustang, depending on what Consumer Reports says. Besides the overall look, I would encourage you to open all the compartments and consider storage capability.

Regarding handling, the JetBoatPilot products are reported to improve forward & reverse handling at nowake speeds. By design they don't do anything at speed.
The Cobra products do both. I haven't used either yet but if you look hard enough you may find a few threads about both of them on here.

The thing that scares most owners is the engine, as it would be the most prone to failure, and what may require most of us to search for outside help specialized in that equipment. All the rest is just hull components and fit and finish components that can many times be ordered online and replaced by anyone.

So that being said, when a person says they like Rotax engines, as stated above, BRP is not making boats, but that is the engine used in the Scarab and Chap boats. And many of the scarabs are the old SeaDoo hull molds. So you are pretty much buying what a SeaDoo dealer once supported. If you feel that engine is more stable, it's available. But as an owner of more than one brand, the 1.8ltr is about as solid as it gets. Especially when an MFG standardizes on one basic engine for so many watercraft, they must believe in them.

The 2001 SeaDoo Utopia is a different animal, as it is the red headed stepchild of the SeaDoo world as many dealers would not touch them, even when SeaDoo boats were being made as it didn't have a Rotax engine, it was a Mercury SportJet. Dealer support is what allowed me to run my Mercury powered SeaDoo for as long as I did. And also the reason I ran away from it this year finally when the fear of it dying, or me losing my dealer forced me to move on while it was in good working order.

These days, finding someone to work on a current Rotax or 1.8Ltr Yamaha engine is as easy as finding a watercraft dealer. There is one in any town of any size. So that leaves an owner to just worry about the rest of the boat.

Concerns over steering and reverse were mine as well coming from a SeaDoo. The SeaDoo boats steered in Forward and Reverse better than most any other. After moving away from one, it's real obvious that no matter how poor another MFG is in those areas, they can be fixed by the aftermarket or learned to control. So it's only as big of an issue as one has patience in learning or buying. Heck I added cobrajet steering to my SeaDoo as I wanted it razor sharp and it worked well. But my wife would disagree as she never put in the wheel time to understand how to utilize it.

Nobody really makes junk, so I would concentrate on the MFG that gives you a dealer network in your region that you can get the support you need to feel comfortable. Then find the model that fits the way you want to use your boat. Be honest with yourself and your family. I'm nowhere near a Yamaha boat dealer, but I have also owned enough Yamaha cylinders over the years that I know I can find help when needed. And I have a great group here to ask questions.

PS: and yes, I am part of the cylinder count club, and if you don't have a current count to brag about, you just won't get it.

Good luck,

 

[dietz]

Our investigations led to yamaha based on the following:
1 clean out plugs (used them twice, saved our *ss). They work!
2. Proven standard engine. Less HP rating than some others , but higher torque & high acceleration and hits high 40mph. couldn't get over supercharger rebuild, so it was out.
Can easily pull any size wakeboarder out of water without any hesitation.
3. Low winterizing (none) needs
...if you can tow, store, afford 24' you will never regret the extra size (and backup head)

 

[Scarabpaul]

You will get lots of Yamaha votes on this forum and rightfully so, they are great boats! I was in your shoes a couple years back and looked at a 19ft ar192 and a 19ft scarab 195. I ended up going with the 21ft scarab with twin 200’s and I don’t regret it at all. I get nothing but compliments every time I am out and the overall layout in my opinion is superior to the other boats I was looking at. I ended up finding a left over 2015 for the same price as the 19ft boats. I know where you boat and understand that a 23 ft boat might be much but I would not go any smaller than a 21ft. Another thing I found is that Yamaha prices, in Ontario at least, were extremely expensive when I was looking in comparison to scarab, I’m not too sure now as scarabs have really taken off in my boating region (lake Simcoe) . If chaparral is still an option they also have a 20ft twin 150hp rotax option, they are nice boats but the dealer I spoke with didnt want to negotiate and the boat is at a higher price point than Yamaha and scarab. If it’s worth anything I don’t believe I have read any issues with hull cracks on this forum.

 

[J-RAD]

I purchased my Yamaha AR240 new in 2016. We have a dealer close by that sells both Chaparral and Scarab that my family has dealt with for years. They have a great reputation in the area. There's also a reputable Yamaha dealer about 40 minutes from me.

I was pretty sold on the concept of a jet boat after encountering the Yamaha's at the local boat show. I was immediately impressed and kept my eyes on them for a couple of years.

When the time came to look seriously I began searching all 3 brands. The dealer had a Chap 243VR and a 19 ft Scarab. From my comparisons here's what I concluded.

Starting with the Scarab, I wasn't really in the market for a 19 ft boat, but my immediate impression was that the interior space seemed small compared to the comparable 19 ft Yamaha. Also a metal decal taped on the side of the brand new boat was already lifting, which turned me off a bit.

As for the Chaparral: from what I know and have seen of the Chaparrals they seem like nicely built boats the dealer had a 243VR they had ordered with a few accessories (tower etc...). It was a temping choice. The dealer gave me a rock bottom of 60k.

I quickly narrowed it down two 2 options the Chap and the AR240. I ultimately ended up with the Yamaha for the following reasons.

1) Price: the yamaha was better equip at a lesser price point. Added tower speakers, 2 amps, full swap of factory speakers, 3 bag 3 pump ballast, premium cover all for less than the discounted Chap.

2) Financing: 2.99% for 5 years and 5.99% the remaining 10 with 5 year warranty thru Yamaha. 5.99% was the cheapest rate I found otherwise.

3) Interior layout: preferred the swivel and reclining passenger captain's chair over the gimmicky multi-position backrest of the Chap.

4) Engine noise: according to BoatTest the Yamaha is as quiet at full throttle as the Chap is at idle.

5) Yamaha reliability: lower maintenance with the non supercharged engine. The Chap can be ordered with larger engine options and I'm not sure which was tested.
- timing issue was on previous 1.8 models
- Rotax have had issues with a part of the exhaust melt causing major flooding potential.
- closed loop cooling in the Rotax may be a positive in Salt water but the exhaust is a raw water system making making it effectively 2 systems. Meaning Yamaha has a simpler design.
- clean out plugs are nice to have.

6) Performance: According to BoatTest the Yamaha, being a lighter weight boat was/is only a fraction of a second slower to plain and a couple MPH slower top speed.

7) Articulating keel: pro/con the keel makes it handle more like an I/O. Which may be a negative it you like to have the rest end whip out in a turn.

8) Listening: for the most part Yamaha has listened to the concerns and complaints of it's target market. They "improved" handling with the keel and made the boat quieter operating. Both major complaints.

Bottom line is, the Yamaha was the better value in this situation and many factors influenced my decision. I have no doubt I ended up with the right boat for me. But that is a very personal decision.

If I were doing it again I'd be I'd take a closer look the 25ft wake edition Scarab and 242x Yamaha. But I doubt I'll be in the market for a while. I agree with what others have said. I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than a 21 ft boat with that you're describing. If you're stuck on a single engine 19 ft then the Yamaha 195 is hard to beat.

I hope I'm being non bias enough in my comparison. It seems like you're leaning the Scarab direction out of a little familiarity and loyalty. It also seems like all us Yamaha guys are carefully trying to talk you out of it.

I'd like to invite @ScarabMike to this conversation, he may have some valuable input for team Scarab.

*Sorry for the novel*

 

[drrjv]

Just got a Chaparral Vortex VRX 22 foot with the twin 600's - chose the Vortex over Yamaha primarily because two dealers in area and prior experience with Rotax engines in various Sea Doo boats and jet skis. Fingers crossed that I made the right choice. So far, so good - this boat with the twin 600's is a beast. Only issue will be sucking up crap in the Upper Potomac and Hydrilla which usually arrives in August.

 

[Dean P]

We have lots and lots of seaweed where we boat. Different times in the year are much worse than others. Have not had any issues (knock on wood) so far. With my Yami we were always pulling the plug.

 

[J-RAD]

Just got a Chaparral Vortex VRX 22 foot with the twin 600's - chose the Vortex over Yamaha primarily because two dealers in area and prior experience with Rotax engines in various Sea Doo boats and jet skis. Fingers crossed that I made the right choice. So far, so good - this boat with the twin 600's is a beast. Only issue will be sucking up crap in the Upper Potomac and Hydrilla which usually arrives in August.

Congrats on your new boat! The Chaps are damn nice boats... my Yamaha won the fist round but, I'll look at them again next time I shop. The new engine options seem really nice!

I've heard that in some cases the rotax pumps with the sheathing on the shaft will allow some vegetation that would otherwise wrap and tangle on the Yamaha to flow thru and get chopped up. I don't think I'd have an issue with either option here. I'm about to begin my 4th season with my AR240 and haven't had to pull a single thing from my pump to-date. Knock on wood.

 

[biffdotorg]

Just got a Chaparral Vortex VRX 22 foot with the twin 600's -

Sounds like a fun boat. You meant twin 300's for a total of 600 correct? Or have I missed this monster fuel guzzler in the line up?

 

[Dean P]

I've heard that in some cases the rotax pumps with the sheathing on the shaft will allow some vegetation that would otherwise wrap and tangle on the Yamaha to flow thru and get chopped up.

That's the key. It gets chopped up and spit out. Prior to buying this Chap, I would have told you not having the shaft exposed would do nothing due to the water flow but the results speak for themselves.