I need a CPO / lightly used SUV to tow with, recommendations?

[adrianp89]

I wonder if a truck is out of the question? Front bench seat and you can fit 6. Bed cover and you have more storage then SUV. Diesel and your towing is over 10k.

 

[adrianp89]

I wonder if a truck is out of the question? Front bench seat and you can fit 6. Bed cover and you have more storage then SUV. Diesel and your towing is over 10k.

This would check every box except seating for 7.... even then you could squeeze four skinnier people in the back with no issue. You can get 5 kids back there lol. Also more luxurious than older navigators IMO. Nav, heated & cooled seats, heated sw, memory seats, adjustable pedals etc. And you can push 30MPG depending on how you drive.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/731993082/overview/

 

[props2you]

I'm in the Lincoln Fanboy boat! My daily driver has been the Zephyr since it came back in 2007, had 225,000 on it before selling it for a 2013 MKZ, put 175,000 on it, recently sold it for an MKC, LOVE it! Wife has the Explorer Sport, loves it, will tow the boat no problem, 3.5 twin turbo, use it as a spare tow vehicle. Wouldn't want to use it all the time, close to maxing out weight limit. Toy hauler is a 2014 Lincoln Navigator and absolutely love it. Roomy, plenty of power, not winning any races, but comfy, roomy hauls people and cargo and tows VERY well, I get about 12mpg pulling the boat, 18 pulling the sleds. Prior to the Navi, had a 2011 Tahoe that crapped out at 110,000 needed over $9k in work, cams, crankshaft etc. Before the Tahoe, had 2010 Navi, that was excellent as well, got rid of it for the Tahoe, MISTAKE.

I scooped up my 2014 CPO Navi with 47k miles for under $30k with B2B warranty for 100k. You can snag a '14/'15 Navi to fit your needs within your budget, they are out there. Once the 18's hit the streets those "older" model prices came down pretty quick.

Good Luck!

 

[Jgorm]

Low pressure oil on the 5.4 means the injectors don't fire correctly and the cam phasers break. Once they do, they either just spin making the tick tock noise doing nothing except not advancing the timing, OR, they basically grenade the whole motor. I'm going to guess that's what happened to yours.

How does oil pressure affect the 5.4 injectors? Are the new ones di? It's possible, but i thought all the 5.4s had regular injectors. The entire modular platform is sensitive to low oil levels causing catastrophic failure.

I'm supper happy with my v10 excursion. Seats 8 grown adults. Pulls 10k. Cheap too. The ecoboost expeditions are real nice and can be had near the top of your budget. That's an awesome engine.[/QUOTE]

 

[Speedling]

How does oil pressure affect the 5.4 injectors? Are the new ones di? It's possible, but i thought all the 5.4s had regular injectors. The entire modular platform is sensitive to low oil levels causing catastrophic failure.

I'm supper happy with my v10 excursion. Seats 8 grown adults. Pulls 10k. Cheap too. The ecoboost expeditions are real nice and can be had near the top of your budget. That's an awesome engine.

[/QUOTE]
Nope you are correct i was thinking about diesels and some of the newer stuff lik ecoboosts and such.

 

[Midnight2V]

The low oil level is not so much a cause as an effect, the true culprit is the rather poor oil drain back from the cylinder heads to the oil pan and the high levels of crank windage the modular engines generate.

The windage is so bad that some of the engines come with a stock windage scraper/tray. Even worse, the poor return flow from the head is why you get a lot of cam cover seals that leak (valve cover for you pushrod types). Its a higher than typical revving engine, and the oil pump pushes the oil through the block and up to the tops of the cylinder heads faster than it can drain causing it to fill the cover. This eventually clogs the check valve in the PCV. The seal gets brittle over the years from heat cycles and eventually fails due to excessive pressure when the PCV doesn't relieve to the intake.

 

[Ronnie]

Update, my mechanic got back to me yesterday and confirmed what I suspected, the engine needs to be replaced. He gave me a few options which range from $2,500 to just get it running so I could sell the suv for more than if it wasn’t running, to $4,500 for used engine with a 1 year warranty and finally $6,500 for a new or refurbed engine with a 3 year warranty. I’m on the fence about what to do, sell it as is as a mechanic’s special or pay the minimum to get it running. I’m sure I won’t be keeping it so the $4,500 and $6,500 options are out. My mech recommend the mechanics special option over selling to a place like pick and pull because he thinks I can get more if I go the former route. Sure I want to recover more money but don’t like the idea of having to store this vehicle until it sells. Pick and pull may pick it up at the shop. Surfing Craig’s list last night I saw a similar nav with a blown motor being sold for $500. The new tires I put on my Nav just cost me $1,000, hell the sales tax was $600. I’m about to take a heavy loss on this. Oh well, stuff happens and relatively speaking this is not necessarily a totally bad thing at least I can recover some money.

On the replacement side, I’ve condsideted all kinds of suvs over the past week (e.g. the Yukon/Tahoe, sequoia/Lexus, Durango, excursion, armada, Mercedes, And newer navigators even old excursions which were discontinued and replaced by longer Navs 2006.

The Yukon’s and Tahoe’s seem to be a little too long plus I’ve sworn off Chevy tow vehicles based on 10 years with an 4x4 avalanche. The most expensive vehicle I have ever owned, bar none, replacing the transmission, transfer case and other tranny components, the latter several times, Never again. Durango’s are nice and I liked the acceration and handling but it felt a lot smaller too me. I didn’t put too much thought into the other options since none were mentioned here and I don’t want to rely just on specs in choosing my next tow vehicle. For example, the Nissan Aranda and titan are based on the same engine, chassis and tranny and they have great tow ratings but I’ve never seen one being used to tow a boat or heavy trailer.

I narrowed it down to 2015 expeditions with 2nd generation diesel eco boost engines and an average cost of $28k to the 2010 models. I’ve decided to get a 2010 Expedition, now I just need to decide if it’s the base model for $12,000 or the Limited version for $17,000. I need to add $3,000 to either for tax and extended warranty. It I’m leaning toward the Limited because I feel I would soon regret not spending the extra money on it v. The base model and the base model is really just a new version of the 2001 Expedition I replaced with the navigator where as the Limiteds is a navigator with Ford Expedition badges. I may be making the purchase tonight or tomorrow night. Why 2010, it’s less expensive by a lot such that I won’t feel that I have to drive it all the time to justify the cost, I also like that it is the same year as my boat. I could go newer or even new but feel like I’d have to get rid of the vette to do the latter comfortably. I waited over 30 years to buy a vette and don’t feel like I have enough time above ground left nor have the patience to wait another 30 years to buy another.

 

[Beachbummer]

What are the comps looking like for a running car? a used engine from a low milage junked car may be a decent option. I think pick a part would be a bad end if the tires are $1000. It's about the cost of your time too. If your are unwilling to deal with the hassle for $2000+ your time is worth more than the money and you can junk it, but do the full math to feel confident you are comfortable with your decision... Maybe go halfsies with the mechanic with the intention to sell and he stores and shows?

Trying to brainstorm a way to not give it all up at the pick a part. Currently it's pretty worthless, but has great potential. If you found a low milage donor you could get a couple more years from it, but I can see you may feel burned enough by the car already. I agree a new engine seems too expensive.

 

[djetok]

I narrowed it down to 2015 expeditions with 2nd generation diesel eco boost engines and an average cost of $28k to the 2010 models. I’ve decided to get a 2010 Expedition, now I just need to decide if it’s the base model for $12,000 or the Limited version for $17,000. I need to add $3,000 to either for tax and extended warranty. It I’m leaning toward the Limited because I feel I would soon regret not spending the extra money on it v. The base model and the base model is really just a new version of the 2001 Expedition I replaced with the navigator where as the Limiteds is a navigator with Ford Expedition badges. I may be making the purchase tonight or tomorrow night. Why 2010, it’s less expensive by a lot such that I won’t feel that I have to drive it all the time to justify the cost, I also like that it is the same year as my boat. I could go newer or even new but feel like I’d have to get rid of the vette to do the latter comfortably. I waited over 30 years to buy a vette and don’t feel like I have enough time above ground left nor have the patience to wait another 30 years to buy another.

They have not released the diesel in the 1/2 platform yet, just a fyi the eco is gas. It is great to two with btw. I don't know, but I am sure it is the same as the f150. Anyone running these vehicles should put fox 2.0 shocks on the rear. It is an amazing difference for 300 dollars or less. (if it doesn't have air ride for some reason.) The shocks completely take away bed hop.

 

[swatski]

2015 expeditions with 2nd generation diesel eco boost engines

???
Unfortunately Ford does not put eco diesels, yet, in their SUVs.

I know - because if they did - I would be driving one.

 

[Ronnie]

@Beachbummer , thanks for the suggestions. I may talk to my mechanic about him storing and showing it for a percentage of the sale revenue. You nailed everything else, I am always out or running out of time. The navs kbb when I got it was close to $7k now it’s worth more if I part it out but I’m not willing to do that myself nor do I have time to get it running plus I’d rather put the money towards the new expedition. When I was younger I never thought I would value my time more than my money but now I realize I can’t buy more (life) time but I’m still in my earning prime so things are different now.

@djetok , I didn’t realize that the eco boost in the SUV’s is not a diesel, I just assumed that all ecoboost engines are diesel. Those currrently offered by ford /Lincoln are twin turbo 6 cylinders. Here I a screen shot of their specs. Thanks for raising this as I was still on the fence about getting a 2015 because diesels have a great reputation for towing. Now that I know it’s not diesel powered the 2015 is definatley off my short list.

I’m checking out the 2010 expedition limited tonight after work. It comes with a 30 day warranty but I’m sure I will buy a longer one. One of my goals this time around is to do whatever it takes to avoid being in this situation again. morevover I never want to be broken down on the side of the freeway with my boat in tow and passengers on board again. We were in immense danger for 30 minutes in the dark with the boat taking up 1/2 of one of the two lanes. Drivers were passing within inches of the trailer guide until the chp showed up to throw a block and put up flares. The night could have turned out a lot worse and cost me a lot more money and more than money.

 

[djetok]

@djetok , I didn’t realize that the eco boost in the SUV’s is not a diesel, I just assumed that all ecoboost engines are diesel. Those currrently offered by ford /Lincoln are twin turbo 6 cylinders. Here I a screen shot of their specs. Thanks for raising this as I was still on the fence about getting a 2015 because diesels have a great reputation for towing. Now that I know it’s not diesel powered the 2015 is definatley off my short list.

I’m checking out the 2010 expedition limited tonight after work. It comes with a 30 day warranty but I’m sure I will buy a longer one. One of my goals this time around is to do whatever it takes to avoid being in this situation again. morevover I never want to be broken down on the side of the freeway with my boat in tow and passengers on board again. We were in immense danger for 30 minutes in the dark with the boat taking up 1/2 of one of the two lanes. Drivers were passing within inches of the trailer guide until the chp showed up to throw a block and put up flares. The night could have turned out a lot worse and cost me a lot more money and more than money.

Oh I wouldn't take it off man. Its a great motor to tow with. 9200 lbs with a 3.31 or 3.73 gear. I have no issues at all and get good mileage (14mpg) up and down hills at 75 mph. The only diesel in the domestics would be a ram pickup on the 1/2 ton platform. The Porsche/VW/Audi platforms have diesels in the suv platforms and can be had in the price range. I have no experience with maintenance costs @veedubtek would be the best to give you the costs. I do know that the service is more costly than domestics, but average cost of ownership could very be different.

Buying used is always a crap shoot, so is new sometimes. The inspection suggested is a great idea

 

[Beachbummer]

If the nav does not pan out, a Sequoia is a very interesting and reliable vehicle.

 

[GoVols01]

I pulled my boat with a 2014 Nissan Armada Platinum Reserve and it worked great. Nissan 5.6L v8 pulls very strong. Previous model had a 5spd tranny, but the current model Armada has a 7spd and a good bit more hp to boot. They have a self-leveling rear suspension as well and the middle row has an optional captain's seat setup, instead of a bench. I have a '17 Titan now with the same engine/tranny setup and it pulls very nicely. Hell, I got 22mpg with my Titan going 80 with the cruise control set - 2 different times!

 

[Jgorm]

The ecoboost is a bad ass engine. Look at this
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2011-ford-f-150-ecoboost-testing-with-mike-rowe/

 

[Ronnie]

I know, I forgot to add the screen shot of the specs so here it is now.



The only reason I was considering 2015 is because I thought it had a diesel eco boost engine, now that I know it’s a gas engine I will stick with the 2010 for a lot less money and of course 5 additional years of miles. The extra power and lower miles of the 2015s I was looking at just are not enough for me to justify the $11k increase in cost.

I forgot to mention what the diagnosis is for the Navigator. “A rod got pushed through the oil pan.” The engine is toast. Not surprising since I was there and clearly remember the sound of metal breaking/shearing/exploding but it’s still disappointing to get the formal report.

06 Navigator, 110k miles
Born (bought) March 23, 2018
Died (on new tires) June 3, 2018
Total cost so far, more than I am willing to state and counting.

I should mention that the nav was in the shop for 2 weeks before the related boat trip, they drove it a little over that time but could not replicate the “fail safe mode”/ aka limp mode that I experienced a few weeks earlier which is one of the reasons I brought it in the other being to replace an ac door actuator and have the ac system checked.

So we agreed the warning may have / must have been a fluke and that I could safelty use the nav to trailer the boat the next day but that I would drive it back to them or to an O’reilly auto parts store to have the code read in case it goes away or the engine started throwing other codes. Lol, this time it never went into limp mode, just threw a low oil pressure warning (light and message) a few seconds before catastrophic failure. Lol, I barely drove (coasted) to the shoulder at the start of an off ramp, no way it was going to go 41 miles Home Or to any nearby auto parts store.

 

[GoVols01]

So a Ford with only 110K miles does this to you and you’re ready to buy another?

I’ve had a bunch of Nissans and none have left me stranded - other than being outta gas, which was my stupid fault.

 

[Ronnie]

This was just one of three. I had a 200? Ford F250 that towed like nothing was behind it. Loved but it was totaled after it was stolen and recovered. Then I had a 2001 or 2 Expedition that served me well for around 100K miles much of it towing, I cant remember the number of years but at least 6 possibly 8. I shouldn't have sold I but it was approaching 250K miles which was making me nervous plus I could tell that it was getting tired and I tired of it so I sold it. I had a jeep whose 4 wheel drive system failed due to non use I think, then there was the dodge Dakota, towed OK but wasn't comfy. The Chevy 4x4 Avalanche I had cost me almost as much if not more in maintenance and repair over the 9 or 10 years I had it as it cost me to buy it. I test drove a newer Durango RT this week, it was fast and nimble but that is not what I want or need in a tow vehicle plus I was reminded by my friend who is a telephone linesman that they couldn't keep more than half of their 8 Durango's in operation at a time because the tranny's would fail from towing around generators. I saw what my cousin went through with his new Titan, things started to fall apart after the warranty period and it eventually nickeled and dimed him until he felt he had to sell it. He never towed anything with it, didn't even own a draw bar or tow ball, but there was always something wrong with it. On the other hand he also has an Armada that has been trouble free, so they kept it. Still he has a 1:1 success:failure rate with Nissans whereas I am 2:1. with Fords. A new just about any luxury SUV costs well over $50K (e.g. a Platinum Sequoia sells for $60K and a top of the line Navigator is $90K, Range Rover of Mercedes G Wagon, $120Kish) and I've seen a lot of 10+ year old SUVs selling/KBBing for $30K plus this week. It's not my thing to buy new and I' can't justify dropping $50K in cash or financing $50K so yeah, I'm going back to Ford but this time with an extended warranty. The memory of being stranded will keep me motivated to maintain the vehicle, which I already do but expect to do more now. Believe me I was totally against buying another Ford or Lincoln Navigator earlier this week but I just can't think of another used SUV that will meet my needs is better than an Expedition or Navigator, I'm just not willing to pay a premium for a rebadged Expedition so the Navigator is out.

Speaking of running out of gas, my Expedition died on the driveway once as I was putting the boat away. It ran out of gas. I filled it from a 5 gallon fuel jug and it started right up. The same thing happened in my Avalanche on the way to buy gas, dirt from the filter fell into the tank, and clogged and/or burned out the fuel pump within a mile of putting some gas in the tank. That cost me a few hours, a tow and around $700 including labor to replace the fuel pump. I ran out of time today so I couldn't see the 2010 Expedition, hopefully I will be able to do so tomorrow.

 

[Noko]

Dodge Ram

 

[Slack]

Nothing against other recommendations here but I vote for a Sequoia. I have a Tundra and believe that they share the same chassis. My Tundra has 225,000+ miles and still is a solid truck. Just make sure you get the 5.7 V8 as they are bulletproof. Good luck in your search.