In Boat Wireless (WiFi) Repeater

[Bruce]

I decided against using the BaseBox. Will update as the design progresses.

We are planning to stay longer in Bimini this year so it is likely that I will have to work. This thread may be interesting to others who want to work from their boats.

I have ordered

Mikrotik BaseBox 5
R11e-2HPnD
2 x MMCX to RPSMA pigtails
2 x 2.4 Ghz Omni Antennas
2 x 5 Ghz Omni Antennas
Wall mount power injector

For a total cost of under $150.

The BaseBox provides a waterproof housing, a 5 Ghz Wifi radio and a reasonably powerful router. The R11e is a 2.4 Ghz radio that will install into the BaseBox. This solution is larger and less attractive than I would like but should work well. I have use Mikrotik's routers for years but this is my first attempt at using their WiFi gears.

I will use the 2.4 Ghz radio to connect to WiFi networks at distant marinas, hotels, condos, etc. The router will either route traffic or bridge to clients connected on the 5 Ghz radio. I will connect to the router through its web interface to select the network that the 2.4 Ghz radio connects to.

The BaseBox will be powered via an ethernet cable that will connect to the wall mount power injector on the boat. It is rated to run on voltages from 8 to 30 volts DC so the boats 12 to 14 volt battery range should work well. I will be able to use it on land as well using the 120 volt power injector that comes with it.

In the US I will have to stick to FCC limits for EIRP (broadcast power). I need to check what the limits are in the Bahamas but I expect their limits to be more lenient.

My expectation is that this solution will allow me to work within a mile of any of the Bimini WiFi providers while the family is snorkeling.

I will post test results when the components arrive next week and from Bimini while we are there. There is a condo complex a half mile away by water that will provide a suitable testing environment at my home.

 

[chess]

Being a tech geek I can't wait to see the report and install !!!

 

[Glassman]

Gee Bruce, what's next?

I'm planning on installing AI in my boat so I don't even have to show up!






(just kidding, I already have that - I'll be watching just to see how that works for you...)

 

[biglar155]

@Bruce , Google "Pringle Can Antenna." Should help with range if you can figure a way to hold it reasonably steady...

 

[Bruce]

@Bruce , Google "Pringle Can Antenna." Should help with range if you can figure a way to hold it reasonably steady...

I am familiar with them. They were a great way to make long links before so many affordable solutions existed. I use PowerBeam AC and NanoBeam AC units to get internet to my home office. I am typing this across 14 miles of wireless links.

Unfortunately there is no way to keep our boats still enough for directional antennas to work. So I am using omnis. There are some very expensive setups that use gyroscopes to keep antennas vertical despite the waves. I am hopeful to have a mile or more of range with the omnis and without any correction. I want something that requires minimal cost and setup to allow quick access to work when needed.

 

[morgro269]

Will an omni type antenna work to pull a signal in from 1 mile+? If it does grab a signal, would it be strong enough? Maybe a RX amplifier could help (maybe you had one listed and I missed it)? I would think something a little more focused would work better. I think a dish would be too directional, but maybe something a little more forgiving, like a yagi? Also, a yagi should help prevent osciallation. If you anchor off the front and back of the boat, you should be able to keep the source signal to one side.

 

[morgro269]

Scratch the osciallation part... I just reread your post. Your LAN and your WAN will have frequency separation... I over looked that the first time.

 

[Bruce]

Will an omni type antenna work to pull a signal in from 1 mile+?

I have a spare one of these if I need it http://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-AMO-2G13-Omni-Directional-Antenna-Dual-Polarizarion/dp/B005CF70OM



But I am going to test some Chinese stuff before I bring that monster on the boat. I don't want to make the VHF antenna feel small.

 

[ArmyChief]

Following

 

[Rana]

Hopefully your will not need it...but, better to have it than not....clients do not understand island time....

 

[ArmyChief]

@Bruce

I have this:
Alfa R36 802.11 b, g N, Repeater and Range Extender for AWUS036H can also be used as a 3G Router - Enables you to Extend to Signal that is picked up by the AWUS036H and distribute the internet to multiple Users (Desktops, Laptops, tablets, iPods or iPad) - AWUS036H is Not Included https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004ZF0I3U/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_62aGvbK5NR4ER

And one of these:

Alfa 2000mw 2W Waterproof Marine high power Long Range Outdoor 802.11 B, G, N, USB wireless network Wifi Adaptor with Integrated 12dBi Antenna - Up to 150mps https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003ILWRLI/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_D4aGvbDJACDN8

 

[ArmyChief]

@Bruce

A couple of questions..since you seems to know a little more than me.

I have a board that has SW adjustable power out to like 5 W I think.

I noticed your miniPCI 2.4 board is a 1W output. Does that company or another make adjustable outputs ?

What gain 2.4 & 5.0 ghz antennas are you using.

Based on cost of what I posted above (both units for about $70), what added benefits does your setup offer?

Thanks

 

[Bruce]

Do you already have the Alfa units? Is the antenna working well for you?

I believe the combined Amazon pricing is $95. The Alfa equipment that you selected is built for this purpose. I am piecing together a solution using WISP (wireless ISP gear). Yours may be easier to use and is less expensive.

Your antenna is described as a "panel antenna". I worry that it is directional. I want omni so that I do not need to be concerned about keeping the boat pointed toward the signal.

The 2 watt output of your radio which is documented as 32 dBm is above FCC regulations. The limit is 30 dBm with a 6 dBi antenna for a total of 36 dBm (4 watts). The antenna is rated at 12 dBi so legally the radio is only allowed to operate at 24 dBm (250 mW). Of course this is only an issue in regulated areas.

Having a higher output than the other end does not extend range but having a stronger antenna does. Let's say you are using the full 2 watts to transmit to a distant WiFi source. The other end is likely operating within FCC rules and only sending out 36 dBm. With your 44 dBM you will be able to transmit several times farther than you will be able to hear replies. Doing so accomplishes nothing more than polluting the airwaves.

I think that the equipment you have selected could be a good solution when turned down to 1 watt. I am not familiar with the product line so I have no idea about reliability.

Your solution has an exposed USB connector as well as Ethernet connectors. I find that USB connectors do not handle salt water exposure well. Mine will all be inside a single waterproof box. I plan to install it inside the console so water proofing may not be an issue.

 

[Bruce]

One last thing, your receiver and your repeater are both operating in the 2.4 Ghz band. Depending on how busy the area is they may be forced to conflict with each other or you may have to manually choose a channel for the repeater to avoid conflicting with the receiver. My receiver is 2.4 Ghz which is more common and my repeater is 5 Ghz. A couple of clicks will allow me to reverse their roles.

 

[ArmyChief]

So many questions...so little time

Do you already have the Alfa units? Is the antenna working well for you?

Yes, I've been using them for about 4 years. Their are issues with Windows 8/8.1 and the Realtek chipset. I am ordering the newer 36NVH to install in the marine box for Windows 8 usage) Research shows that drivers 1012-1015 need to be usedon Win 7

I believe the combined Amazon pricing is $95. The Alfa equipment that you selected is built for this purpose. I am piecing together a solution using WISP (wireless ISP gear). Yours may be easier to use and is less expensive.

Your kung-fu math is correct..I will fall on thy sword . I agree the Alfa is a out-of-the-box simpler solution. However, it may not be as configurable and does not support 5 ghz. On the plus size it has higher power output (understanding the limitations of transmit power. Receiver sensitivity is just, if not MORE important. Your board MAY have better sensitivity..I did not see specs)

Your antenna is described as a "panel antenna". I worry that it is directional. I want omni so that I do not need to be concerned about keeping the boat pointed toward the signal.

Well, directional is a relative term. The lobe or angle is about 30 degree's..so...taking in the consideration of distance from vessel to WIFI signal, I believe an initial adjustment (inSSIDER) and consistent current and even better using a rear anchor..should keep the WIFI signal WELL within that 30 degree arch. Lastly, it will concentrate signals and be courteous of surrounding vessels

The 2 watt output of your radio which is documented as 32 dBm is above FCC regulations. The limit is 30 dBm with a 6 dBi antenna for a total of 36 dBm (4 watts). The antenna is rated at 12 dBi so legally the radio is only allowed to operate at 24 dBm (250 mW). Of course this is only an issue in regulated areas.

Exactly, the SW allows (using a slider) to adjust the transmit power out...for those that are concerned

Having a higher output than the other end does not extend range but having a stronger antenna does. Let's say you are using the full 2 watts to transmit to a distant WiFi source. The other end is likely operating within FCC rules and only sending out 36 dBm. With your 44 dBM you will be able to transmit several times farther than you will be able to hear replies. Doing so accomplishes nothing more than polluting the airwaves.

See above for some explanation..also gain of antenna, directionality, and receiver sensitivity play an important part on receive

I think that the equipment you have selected could be a good solution when turned down to 1 watt. I am not familiar with the product line so I have no idea about reliability.

Your solution has an exposed USB connector as well as Ethernet connectors. I find that USB connectors do not handle salt water exposure well. Mine will all be inside a single waterproof box. I plan to install it inside the console so water proofing may not be an issue.

Reliability seems to be pretty robust. The 36H is an all time favorite with network security guys.

Thanks !

 

[ArmyChief]

One last thing, your receiver and your repeater are both operating in the 2.4 Ghz band. Depending on how busy the area is they may be forced to conflict with each other or you may have to manually choose a channel for the repeater to avoid conflicting with the receiver. My receiver is 2.4 Ghz which is more common and my repeater is 5 Ghz. A couple of clicks will allow me to reverse their roles.

See long post above..you are correct. I hope directionality and using iNSSIDER to visually see the "spectrum"..I can change channels of adapters.

 

[maboat]

...Well, directional is a relative term. The lobe or angle is about 30 degree's..so...taking in the consideration of distance from vessel to WIFI signal, I believe an initial adjustment (inSSIDER) and consistent current and even better using a rear anchor..should keep the WIFI signal WELL within that 30 degree arch. Lastly, it will concentrate signals and be courteous of surrounding vessels ...

I was thinking along the same lines.

The term "directional" antenna is actually a vague term. In fact, ALL antennas are directional in some way. Except of course for the theoretically perfect Isotropic Radiator which would radiate equally in three dimensions at 100-percent efficiency. That is the theoretical "i" in "dBi" which real antennas are measured against.

Antennas are like lenses. They are passive. The only way they can create any "gain" in a signal is by focusing the energy in some direction more than another direction. So that means any antenna with any gain is going to be directional in some way because the gain comes by taking all the energy from the perfect sphere and focusing it more or less in certain directions.

I would think a patch or panel antenna with most of its gain focused on one side or the other would be a good choice here. That is, of course, assuming that the boat is not swinging around so much that it is completely swapping sides on a regular basis. I think a yagi would be a good choice too, unless you are expecting the boat to be pitching and rolling a lot. But in that case, a high-gain "omni" antenna could be a problem as well.

A so-called "Omni-directional" antenna is only "omni" in one dimension. It radiates out perpendicularly from the antenna mast, which is normally mounted vertically. On flat seas and a vertical mast, the omni will radiate well towards the horizon. But if the boat is pitching and rolling and your vertical mast is waving around, you will begin to discover the limitations of being "omni-directional" in one dimension. The higher the gain of omni, the bigger the variance with a waving mast because a higher gain in one direction only comes from reduced gain in another direction.

On the other hand, a patch antenna will not vary as much if the boat pitches and rolls as long as the direction to shore remains on the same side of the boat. A yagi antenna could handle a fair mount of directional yawing while still focusing more energy towards shore than an omni would, but will suffer from pitching and rolling similar to the omni.

So, as always, there is no ideal antenna. There are pros and cons for each type. It all depends on the environment and the anticipated conditions.

 

[ArmyChief]

I was thinking along the same lines.

The term "directional" antenna is actually a vague term. In fact, ALL antennas are directional in some way. Except of course for the theoretically perfect Isotropic Radiator which would radiate equally in three dimensions at 100-percent efficiency. That is the theoretical "i" in "dBi" which real antennas are measured against.

On the other hand, a patch antenna will not vary as much if the boat pitches and rolls as long as the direction to shore remains on the same side of the boat.

Has been my thoughts for boaters for years. There's a guy about 6 years ago who took the same setup I mentioned above and put it in a pelican case. Matter of fact..I just checked..they've improved it (Pro) and offer a few other products. This is still a decent setup (already put together and tested) for the $$. IMHO, what's a few hundred dollars worth in time, support and to have a off-the-shelf working product.?

NOTE: If you don't need 2G/3G/4G cellular, than the $399 Wirie AP is ALL you need.

http://www.thewirie.com/antennadetails.html

Inside of Wirie Pro:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mWUkIRgd5Dg/VSHSfrqevGI/AAAAAAAAKR0/ZSXH2-bacrE/s1600/DSC03666.JPG

I tried to explain to my sailing buddies that the equipment, minus the antenna was a great option (cost vs benefits). I would recommend a second panel antenna when in a fixed anchor situation. Much for the reason's you mentioned (above in red) and to reduce the "pollution" (your signal overpowering neighboring boaters).

Out in the middle of the water or far away in a bay....not many boaters are "concerned" about FCC regulations. In in their defense, if more used a semi-direction (panel/patch) antenna...the disruption of 20 boaters with omni's would be limited

 

[maboat]

I like your term "semi-directional". Us engineers would prefer call them that, but the marketing people changed it

I'm not sure there is an issue with disrupting other boaters, but it just makes sense to focus the limited amount of energy towards a land based station instead of wasting energy out to sea.

 

[ArmyChief]

I like your term "semi-directional". Us engineers would prefer call them that, but the marketing people changed it

Marketing....the legal "truth stretchers"