Jet Boat or Sterndrive

[2kwik4u]

You shouldn't surf a stern drive, but the Volvo (and now Merc) I/O that's in reverse puts the prop at the same area of the boat as an inboard. That would make them just as safe - arguably safer even as there's a hunk of metal between the surf area and the prop?

Those aren't any safer than a regular stern drive IMO. The prop is still nearly inline vertically with the transom. A true inboard, or a V-Drive will put the prop a foot or two ahead of the transom vertically.

If you ask me, any prop inline or behind the transom is a safety hazard for surfing. I've watched guys literally surf into the transom and fall over onto the swim platform on a dedicated surf boat. No way I'm doing that with a spinning prop just a foot under the surface.

 

[2kwik4u]

The maintenance point is very attractive! Yeah I would surf but do not want to pony up the 15k or so more for a surf model boat. Thank you for your input, I will have to look at the 212S more seriously again. thank you!

No worries. Good luck with your search.

I came from a sterndrive. I replace the gear oil yearly, as well as the raw water cooling impeller. Beyond that there were two hydraulic systems to maintain (trim/tilt, and power steering) that required oil changes periodically. There are also several other system that need attention that the jet drive just doesn't have. Part of that is inherent in the drive system setup, and some of that is from Yamaha making marine based engines from the outset, and not converting automotive blocks for marine use. The Yamahas are designed as marine systems from the ground up, and it shows up powerfully in the maintenance column.

The 212S and 212X are, IMO, the best powered Yamaha's available. The twin 1.8L Normally Aspirated engines are exceptionally reliable, very powerful, and packaged in the 21ft hull quite fast. I might change my mind if I get a ride in the new dual supercharged 25ft boats, but I'm holding my judgement on those until more get in the field.

 

[2kwik4u]

@RD23 I have had 8 adults. Including me out before. I didn't find it cramped really. Depends what else you have in the boat. Of course some find that cramped, it depends what you like. Also have had 4 adults and 6 teenagers, felt a bit much, but teenagers are every where all over the place.

I agree with this......on a smaller scale. Really depends on your comfort level. Some folks find 8 people on a 21ft fine, and others think it's way too close. I've seen 13 on a 24ft'r and it looked WAY tight for me, but they thought it was just fine. Someone took a family of 8 on vacation with a 190 awhile back. Felt nuts to me, but they loved it.

I've had 6 teenagers and 2 adults on my 190, and it was tight. 8 full adults was too much. 4 adults and 4 kids was not terrible. 2 kids and 2 adults is down right comfy with tons of room.

 

[buckbuck]

Hey now...Let's give the MR-1 motors a little love for being fast.

 

[BRosen]

Hello,
I am interested in purchasing my first boat.
Right now I am stuck between buying a Sterndrive (Monterey M22 with 4.5 Mercruiser 250hp) or a Yamaha (I am thinking the AR210 would be best for me, I was looking at the 212s but would prefer to save the money for a stereo upgrade and some waterspouts equipment (Tubes and Wakeboards)
Personally I love the layout of the Yamaha Boats I love the stern and it really looks like the boat for me if the look were the same I would probably go sterndrive but I want to cruise a little bit, do some water sports and hang out with family and friends in the coves a lot.
While doing my research I have come across 3 common complaints that are holding me back slightly.
1. Jet Drive boats are terrible on fuel economy. Is this true? Will is cost an arm and a leg to take the Yamaha Boat out with friends and family all the time?
2. Jet Drive boats are really load. Is this true? Are they obnoxiously load or just load because its a boat...? Can you drive this around and still have some and talk with your family and friends?
3. Jet Drive boats are hard to maneuver. Is this true? Note I am new to boating, only rented a boat once before really and ridden on family friends boats. I have always wanted a boat, I love the water and I love being with my friends and family outside. Can a new boater operate this without hitting every dock insight as many have said I would?

(One other question as well, is a AR210 enough boat to wakeboard behind? (I am 6'3" 235lbs)

I know its a lot of questions, if anyone could help me clear this up I would greatly appreciate it!

Thank you very very much in advance!

I thought I’d throw in my two cents worth on here too....I was similar to you...Love the water, love being around it and in the sun, love boating, but never owned one and have rented only a couple times. Luckily I was able to find my used Yamaha in August last summer. I was really drawn to the no prop, and really like the looks of the Yamaha! I think it’s one of the best looking boats on the water. The swim platform, layout and room are bigger than other similar size boats it seems. And it also seems like Yamaha gives you the most bang for the back, compared to others. And I really wanted to be able to do a lot of things; cruise the lake, some tubing and skiing, hanging out and swimming, listening to music and eating and drinking; it just works.

1. I think it might use a little more fuel; but again, having not had a boat before, you‘re not really comparing it to a anything else. I know I used more fuel last year, because we absolutely LOVED the boat, and used it a ton at the end of the summer, driving the heck out of it, going all over the lake from place to place. A lot of playing and driving around. Had a blast. And if you‘re filling with regular at a gas station on the trailer, vs. marine fuel at the marina, it’s a huge $ difference.

2. They do produce noise because 2 engines at high RPM, but again, I have nothing to compare it to and its never bothered us. At wide open throttle, it will scream; but you’re also going to be flying in the wind and it’s just loud. You don’t do that all the time. Cruising around you can hear it, and may have to speak up, but I don’t think it‘s too bad; and I think all boat motors are going to make some noise...

3. Control. Again, it takes a little getting used to, but not having experience with other boats, it didn’t seem bad, even before fins. You just learn what it takes and figure it out. Probably have to do that with any boat. At first it does seem a little “sloppy”, but you figure it out shortly. I ended up getting the fins, mostly for my wife. They help. And as the others said, once you learn to use both throttles, it’s very maneuverable.

Good luck my friend. We absolutely love it, and I can’t wait to get out in the next week or two! 72 and sunny, and I’m out there...

 

[RD23]

Glad to help. We’ve had 4 adults and 5 kids on it quite a bit. If kids are on the tube that frees up some space. The worst one to take out with us is our dog. I would think 7 to 8 adults would be comfortable but most people on this forum would agree that non-boaters have a way of always being in the way no matter what.

Perfect! My hope is to have 8 people in the boat at times so that is great to hear.
Thank you!

 

[RD23]

@RD23 I have had 8 adults. Including me out before. I didn't find it cramped really. Depends what else you have in the boat. Of course some find that cramped, it depends what you like. Also have had 4 adults and 6 teenagers, felt a bit much, but teenagers are every where all over the place.

Awesome! 8 is my hope at a max so that perfect! Thank you!!

 

[RD23]

I thought I’d throw in my two cents worth on here too....I was similar to you...Love the water, love being around it and in the sun, love boating, but never owned one and have rented only a couple times. Luckily I was able to find my used Yamaha in August last summer. I was really drawn to the no prop, and really like the looks of the Yamaha! I think it’s one of the best looking boats on the water. The swim platform, layout and room are bigger than other similar size boats it seems. And it also seems like Yamaha gives you the most bang for the back, compared to others. And I really wanted to be able to do a lot of things; cruise the lake, some tubing and skiing, hanging out and swimming, listening to music and eating and drinking; it just works.

1. I think it might use a little more fuel; but again, having not had a boat before, you‘re not really comparing it to a anything else. I know I used more fuel last year, because we absolutely LOVED the boat, and used it a ton at the end of the summer, driving the heck out of it, going all over the lake from place to place. A lot of playing and driving around. Had a blast. And if you‘re filling with regular at a gas station on the trailer, vs. marine fuel at the marina, it’s a huge $ difference.

2. They do produce noise because 2 engines at high RPM, but again, I have nothing to compare it to and its never bothered us. At wide open throttle, it will scream; but you’re also going to be flying in the wind and it’s just loud. You don’t do that all the time. Cruising around you can hear it, and may have to speak up, but I don’t think it‘s too bad; and I think all boat motors are going to make some noise...

3. Control. Again, it takes a little getting used to, but not having experience with other boats, it didn’t seem bad, even before fins. You just learn what it takes and figure it out. Probably have to do that with any boat. At first it does seem a little “sloppy”, but you figure it out shortly. I ended up getting the fins, mostly for my wife. They help. And as the others said, once you learn to use both throttles, it’s very maneuverable.

Good luck my friend. We absolutely love it, and I can’t wait to get out in the next week or two! 72 and sunny, and I’m out there...

Amazing! Thank you so much for your 2 cents! This is very helpful! It sounds like I am on the right path. Enjoy the season! Im excited for you! Thank you again,

 

[agannole93]

@RD23 not sure where in CA you're at or if you're interested in the used market at all, but saw this 212s recently. It's a bit above what you likely turned down at the dealer, but includes warranty and a few other extras. And who knows, if you're a serious buyer maybe some wiggle room on price could be had.

 

[tdonoughue]

@RD23 , so as to your boating in lakes in central CA... Doesn't change anything for me, really. I consider the Yamahas very much 'lake and river' boats. Many do take them offshore (the board has been known to host a Bimini trip annually), but not far. And if you hit weather it can be... uncomfortable. Can it do it? Yes. Optimal use? Probably not, IMHO.

Do be aware that there are 'California' models to Yamahas, just like cars. They have extra emissions, which will cause less HP and more gas use.

Big plus to the jets in lakes and rivers is the lack of a prop to hit stumps, shores and other underwater delights. Not a concern if you are boating out in the ocean, of course. But inland, having that extra before you hit bottom (and when you do hit, you are just grazing the keel, not ripping off a prop) can be very nice, especially if you go exploring in new waters frequently.

Good luck!

 

[RD23]

@RD23 not sure where in CA you're at or if you're interested in the used market at all, but saw this 212s recently. It's a bit above what you likely turned down at the dealer, but includes warranty and a few other extras. And who knows, if you're a serious buyer maybe some wiggle room on price could be had.

I am in Fresno. Where did you find this boat?

 

[RD23]

@RD23 , so as to your boating in lakes in central CA... Doesn't change anything for me, really. I consider the Yamahas very much 'lake and river' boats. Many do take them offshore (the board has been known to host a Bimini trip annually), but not far. And if you hit weather it can be... uncomfortable. Can it do it? Yes. Optimal use? Probably not, IMHO.

Do be aware that there are 'California' models to Yamahas, just like cars. They have extra emissions, which will cause less HP and more gas use.

Big plus to the jets in lakes and rivers is the lack of a prop to hit stumps, shores and other underwater delights. Not a concern if you are boating out in the ocean, of course. But inland, having that extra before you hit bottom (and when you do hit, you are just grazing the keel, not ripping off a prop) can be very nice, especially if you go exploring in new waters frequently.

Good luck!

Living in California sure is sweet hahaha
Thank you for the heads up!

 

[agannole93]

I am in Fresno. Where did you find this boat?

It's posted up on the Yamaha jetboat facebook page and on marketplace I believe. In Roseville, CA

 

[212s]

1) Fuel economy is not good...but not horrible. It will use more fuel than the 4.5 merc. But maybe not much more..

It's funny how people see things differently...fuel consumption is very subjective and usage makes a big difference. A 42' Fountain with twin 1075hp engines uses more fuel too. But you don't see them complaining about economy.

As for practical economy, according to various manufacturers websites and independent reviews, it seems later model jetboats are actually pretty close to most others of similar HP at less than WOT (where efficiencies drop off). I've looked at this a lot in the past, and found that around 90% throttle is where the efficiency drops off where the impeller has trouble pulling water into the jet pump - that's just physics at play. At typical cruising speeds, jets do a good job, even beating some I/O boats of similar power and size. Years ago jets were bad at fuel economy because they were mainly used in jetskis which were very light and economical on fuel. But the early boats were much heavier and needed some tuning and they had terrible fuel economy, yet today they're pretty good. I can get 3.0 mpg at 27 mph using 9.0 gph with twin engines at 360hp rating - that's better than some other 300(ish) hp boats out there of similar size and weight. That's not bad at all.

2) The engines are loud, but that is really not the main issue. It’s that they run at such a high rpm and there are two engines. Two engines running together at the same rpm creates a bad harmonic sound. Very irritating to me.

Opposite for me...when I hear those harmonics, I know the boat engines are in sync or close and I don't need to fiddle with the throttles or look at rpm levels. I love that sound. Is it louder than I/O drives? Depends on the boat...check out dB tests from some websites and personal experience and you find it's not really much louder, just "different" pitch. Of course you can't compare a 21' twin engine jet to a 32ft cruiser where there's 2 decks and an engine room between the driver and engines. I know someone with a Four Winns V8 and captain's call exhaust...you think that's quieter than my boat? Not a chance! But it sounds great. It's all about perspective.

3) Jet boats maneuver terribly...so terrible my wife refused to drive our AR210.

My wife doesn't agree and likes driving the new jetboat over the old I/O as it's much more fun to drive.

You can always tell when a Yamaha jet boat is coming at you in a no-wake zone as they are swerving back and forth.

I think that's user error by inexperienced drivers. My boat doesn't swerve back and forth any more than my I/O drives we owned at idle speed. I have seen some people with outboards turn 20+ degrees left/right coming in to dock because they don't realize the natural vortices created by the prop/impeller wash beyond the transom is what's causing the wandering - small corrections and the boat stays mostly straight like any other. With No Wake Mode there is little wander at +1, and virtually no wander at +2 or +3. I find steering the Yamaha is just as easy as old I/O and outboards. BRP boats don't have an A/K so that makes a difference and after water testing a Vortex I know for a fact the difference that little rudder makes.

Another big advantage to a Yamaha jet boat is this forum..lots of great info and members.... This is why many of us who moved on from Jet boats still come here.

This part I agree with 100%.

 

[212s]

@RD23 I have had 8 adults. Including me out before. I didn't find it cramped really. Depends what else you have in the boat.

I think you meant "Depends WHO else you have in the boat"...inlaws can sometimes be used as shark bait...no?

 

[johhnyboat]

No one has touched on it due to your questions but jet boats suck water in and throws it out the back. So, whatever is sitting on top of the water, chances are it'll get pulled/sucked in. Yamaha have a patented removal plug in the back that provides access to the impeller to remove any debris enlarged in there. If you plan to boat in weedy areas, you may consider an alternate drive system. As mentioned above, these are jet boats similar to a jet ski and act in the same manner. Hands down, best part is no prop under the boat. Safer for water sports and access to shallow water.

Noise? They are a little louder comparable to an I/O but wind noise will over power that. These are bow riding boats - nothing to block the wind
Fuel? IMO, negligible. So many factors determine best economy; speed, wind, current, temperature, on board weight.
Maneuverability? There is a learning curve and there are aftermarket items to make turning and docking simpler.

Also noted, take both/all for a test drive. This will provide insight on what's to come. Good luck!!!

My prior boats are 22 SeaRay Openbow, 26 SeaRay Cuddy Cabin and 30 Crownline CC, all sterndrives. All of those boats have intakes and if clogged cause overheating. Hit your prop in sand - overheat, suck in plastic bag - overheat, suck in seaweed - overheat. I'm not minimizing that Jet boats easily suck up things, but all boats will have issues if you clog the intake.
I think for a smaller boat a jet drive has a lot less moving parts and you take the outdrive out of the equation, so less maintenance.
From the OPs original question, I think the year of the boat may make more difference with the above questions. Noise, Fuel and Maneuverability wouldn't be any of my concerns when comparing the two types of boats.

 

[Dean P]

My prior boats are 22 SeaRay Openbow, 26 SeaRay Cuddy Cabin and 30 Crownline CC, all sterndrives. All of those boats have intakes and if clogged cause overheating. Hit your prop in sand - overheat, suck in plastic bag - overheat, suck in seaweed - overheat. I'm not minimizing that Jet boats easily suck up things, but all boats will have issues if you clog the intake.
I think for a smaller boat a jet drive has a lot less moving parts and you take the outdrive out of the equation, so less maintenance.
From the OPs original question, I think the year of the boat may make more difference with the above questions. Noise, Fuel and Maneuverability wouldn't be any of my concerns when comparing the two types of boats.

Sorry, not sure why you're calling me out on overheating. Never mentioned it. However, I do agree with you. I once sucked up sand in my SeaRay I/O. Cost me about 2 grand to fix that. My point is sucking up seaweed, plastic bags, plastic bottle cap, fishing line, t-shirts (all items I have sucked in) and floating "play" rope (anything floating on top of the water or close to the top) will all get sucked in, wrap around the shaft/impeller and most likely cut your power back knocking you off plane, prevent you from getting on plane, cavitate and possibly cause you to overheat. In my area seaweed is most prevalent; especially in protected marinas. I believe a member here stated she sold her FSH due to all the weeds in their area. Figured it was worth mentioning here. But, thanks for bringing up the overheating issues.

 

[johhnyboat]

Sorry, not sure why you're calling me out on overheating. Never mentioned it. However, I do agree with you. I once sucked up sand in my SeaRay I/O. Cost me about 2 grand to fix that. My point is sucking up seaweed, plastic bags, plastic bottle cap, fishing line, t-shirts (all items I have sucked in) and floating "play" rope (anything floating on top of the water or close to the top) will all get sucked in, wrap around the shaft/impeller and most likely cut your power back knocking you off plane, prevent you from getting on plane, cavitate and possibly cause you to overheat. In my area seaweed is most prevalent; especially in protected marinas. I believe a member here stated she sold her FSH due to all the weeds in their area. Figured it was worth mentioning here. But, thanks for bringing up the overheating issues.

Sorry, I wasn't "calling you out", I agree with you. I guess my point is the issue with sucking things up can ultimately turn into losing power or overheating. If that happens on an I/O is probably a much bigger and expensive problem. If Weeds/seaweed are the biggest issue I would recommend an outboard setup.

 

[Whisky]

How long did you own your AR? Thank you for your reply!

About a year and a half, we bought an AR 190 “knowing” that wakesurfing looked slow and lame, and all we were going to want to do was wakeboard and tube. Plus, the price was definitely more pallatable.

Towards the end of year one a friend lent us a surf board and we tried wake surfing, which, at first we had fun with behind the 190..... but by part way through year two we wanted more and found we were wanting to surf 90-100% of our time on the water. So we started playing with upgrading the 190 with ballast and such, but with enough weight to really throw a wake we were running out of power on the single engine small pump.

so I talked to my buddy who is a dealer and he said he had a home for my 190 if I wanted to trade it, so we figured, hell, now we know we like boating, and know we will only get jet boats from here out, so let’s get one loaded up so we aren’t wishing for more again in the future haha

 

[BlkGS]

Hey now...Let's give the MR-1 motors a little love for being fast.

Love my MR1s...