Need advice

[AZDANSX230HO]

Not sure if the TR-1's are louder than MR-1's, but I love the sound of the engines as we are cruising down the lake, but I am a gearhead to the bone and love the sound of engines/horsepower.

 

[buckbuck]

I love the sound of silence.

 

[Av8tor07]

My first jet boat had an articulating keel, with the new 24' hull design, and all I can say is that there isn't a prop-driven boat that can handle like it. It's ridiculous. Any prop-driven boat would cavitate with half the G's. I don't know if the "older" gen hulls will grab and turn like the new hulls. I think that they spin on the water more than they grab, which seems to be a preference of the older hull-design owners. I love the grab of the new hull design. Since the new hull of the 21 has the keel, I assume that it will grab in the corners like my 2015 24'er. I think that you're really looking at two very different boats. Also, expect that the boat with the keel will track better when crossing waves and boat wakes; it shouldn't slide off and it should track straight.
Good luck.

My biggest concern is slow speed handling, unless I'm alone on the boat, my wife will give me the evil eye if I go over 30mph.

 

[Av8tor07]

I should probably temper that remark by saying the 2017 are purposely engineered to be quieter than all previous 21 footers. Having spent the last 8 seasons with my 212X I will say that is the #1 reason tempting me to upgrade.
None of us have had a boat with twin TR-1 motors. If you go the AR210 route make sure you test drive and feel comfortable with the performance. Take the whole family and some chubby friends to load it down good. Run it at 18 mph and 9 mph to see how it does. If you do get the opportunity then please report back to us.

I will definitely test drive it, the local dealer said that they would be getting the 2017s next month. The AR model is about 3k more than the SX model, the only difference is the tower and snap in teak look alike carpet. In your opinion, is it worth it to get the AR?

 

[Corey Champlin]

Yes, or else you will be like me, installing an aftermarket tower 2 years later.

 

[txav8r]

There is big difference in HP between a 210 and a 212X. The 210 won't carry a boat load of family and do well comparing to the 212X. It will be a good entry level boat however. You can convince yourself that 30mph is all you need, but it won't be, and getting 30 in the wind with a full load will be tough on the less powered engines.

Hull difference is subtle year to year. As far as I can tell, the hull change from past years to those with the articulating keel, have been only changes in lines to add the keel centerline to back to the articulating keel. And plenty of guys have added the aftermarket fins to their boats to make up for the lack of authority the keel system has. The best thing the keel system has IMO, is the rack and pinion steering assist.

Noise reductions has been ongoing. The newer the boat, the less noise...but none are quiet, not even the 2017. It is just quieter than the previous years. The issue is that the engines are higher revving than their I/O counterparts. It can also be said that these jet boats have motorcycle style engines and they are just louder than a V-8/V-6 style automobile engine. And then the I/O vs jet boat is where the last comparison comes in. An I/O has the exhaust below the water level, and it stays below even on plane, whereas a jet boats exhaust is underwater to a certain degree at sub planing speeds but is on top of the water when you plane out. Making the boat quieter has been a goal of many a modifier, and complaint, so Yamaha has been hard at work to reduce the noise. My stereo wouldn't work this last trip out, so I was really surprised how loud it was! We don't typically run WOT, and cruise at best cruise, around 8.5 GPH, which is around 30 MPH. But run around 50 MPH at WOT burning 23.5 GPH. We are headed on a trip that we will run almost exclusively at WOT for 4 or 5 days, covering vast distances on Lake Powell. And fuel economy is less important to me than time to get there. So I was testing running my local lake at WOT, with a broken head unit for the stereo...and that was loud even with ear protection.

Finally, there is a vast difference between the wake board style 212X and the AR210. I am not a tower guy and we don't do wake sports or even ski much anymore. The bigger and easier to use bimini on the SX model boats is much more to my liking. But I would love the tower to put up better lighting. Bottom line, it is a choice you have to make, and there is not a perfect boat that does everything. They are all a compromise based on criteria that is important to you. So enjoy the search and good luck!

 

[swatski]

@Av8tor07 My 0.02

I would say get the tower, or you will be installing one and kicking yourself.

The tower of pre-2017 212s is somewhat difficult to fold. The new forward sweeping towers are sweet and extremely well built.

Do not underestimate the noise factor. I hated my sx190 for that, spend copious amounts of $$$ and time and still felt defeated, somewhat. The new hulls are tolerably quiet out of the factory. That is a huge relief.

The new hulls handle water so different, these feel like "normal" boats with jet propulsion, not a traditional jet boat. I love it. @MrMoose put it very well in words.

I never thought I would say these words, but: Connext is pretty nice.

If you are getting fins, which will help a lot, get cobra magnums w/fangs and the additional supporting rod.

 

[njmr2fan]

Def get the 212.

 

[Av8tor07]

There is big difference in HP between a 210 and a 212X. The 210 won't carry a boat load of family and do well comparing to the 212X. It will be a good entry level boat however. You can convince yourself that 30mph is all you need, but it won't be, and getting 30 in the wind with a full load will be tough on the less powered engines.

Hull difference is subtle year to year. As far as I can tell, the hull change from past years to those with the articulating keel, have been only changes in lines to add the keel centerline to back to the articulating keel. And plenty of guys have added the aftermarket fins to their boats to make up for the lack of authority the keel system has. The best thing the keel system has IMO, is the rack and pinion steering assist.

Noise reductions has been ongoing. The newer the boat, the less noise...but none are quiet, not even the 2017. It is just quieter than the previous years. The issue is that the engines are higher revving than their I/O counterparts. It can also be said that these jet boats have motorcycle style engines and they are just louder than a V-8/V-6 style automobile engine. And then the I/O vs jet boat is where the last comparison comes in. An I/O has the exhaust below the water level, and it stays below even on plane, whereas a jet boats exhaust is underwater to a certain degree at sub planing speeds but is on top of the water when you plane out. Making the boat quieter has been a goal of many a modifier, and complaint, so Yamaha has been hard at work to reduce the noise. My stereo wouldn't work this last trip out, so I was really surprised how loud it was! We don't typically run WOT, and cruise at best cruise, around 8.5 GPH, which is around 30 MPH. But run around 50 MPH at WOT burning 23.5 GPH. We are headed on a trip that we will run almost exclusively at WOT for 4 or 5 days, covering vast distances on Lake Powell. And fuel economy is less important to me than time to get there. So I was testing running my local lake at WOT, with a broken head unit for the stereo...and that was loud even with ear protection.

Finally, there is a vast difference between the wake board style 212X and the AR210. I am not a tower guy and we don't do wake sports or even ski much anymore. The bigger and easier to use bimini on the SX model boats is much more to my liking. But I would love the tower to put up better lighting. Bottom line, it is a choice you have to make, and there is not a perfect boat that does everything. They are all a compromise based on criteria that is important to you. So enjoy the search and good luck!

From what I have found, the TR-1 engines will make about 130HP. The engines on the 212x make about 160HP, not sure if I'm correct on those numbers. Even though I don't go too fast with the wife onboard, I would still like to know that I can hit 50mph whenever she's not on there. The popular opinion on this forum is to go with a tower, but like you, I would rather have the larger Bimini top. We do some occasional tubing when we have guests, but that's the extent of our water sports. We're more into the crusing for a bit, then find a cove to do some swimming, besides, I think that I would be the only one willing to wakeboard, and being the only one with a boating license that cancels those plans. So in your opinion, a 212ss would probably be a better choice than a 212x or the new 210sx?

 

[Speedling]

From what I have found, the TR-1 engines will make about 130HP. The engines on the 212x make about 160HP, not sure if I'm correct on those numbers. Even though I don't go too fast with the wife onboard, I would still like to know that I can hit 50mph whenever she's not on there. The popular opinion on this forum is to go with a tower, but like you, I would rather have the larger Bimini top. We do some occasional tubing when we have guests, but that's the extent of our water sports. We're more into the crusing for a bit, then find a cove to do some swimming, besides, I think that I would be the only one willing to wakeboard, and being the only one with a boating license that cancels those plans. So in your opinion, a 212ss would probably be a better choice than a 212x or the new 210sx?

The ss is awesome. Mine has the mr1 160 hp engines. The newer ones have the 1.8 180 hp engines. They switched in 2010 i think?
The ss is a Super Sexy boat. I would know.
Bimini is large like the sx. No tower. All speed but that also has proven to make some good cruising as well.

 

[Av8tor07]

The ss is awesome. Mine has the mr1 160 hp engines. The newer ones have the 1.8 180 hp engines. They switched in 2010 i think?
The ss is a Super Sexy boat. I would know.
Bimini is large like the sx. No tower. All speed but that also has proven to make some good cruising as well.

That's exactly what I'm looking for. Crusing to the cove, swim, then head to the waterfront restaurant for dinner. I'm not the kind to stay out in the sun for long periods of time, so I do love the large Bimini. Thanks

 

[Chillypilot]

I thought the same as you about a tower and bought a sx230. I had two young kids all they wanted to do was tube and go for a swim hang at the beach etc.

Fast forward to three years later kids are 8 and 12 all they want to do is knee board, wakeboard and wakesurf. So I install a tower, now everyone is happy.

Do yourself a favour and buy a boat with a tower. Not only are they good for water sports but you can add speakers, lights, racks etc. Personally I would look for a used 2015 AR240.

 

[txav8r]

You sound very much like us. Cruise, swim, chill, etc. I didn't think about the SS, but it would offer the full size Bimini and the 1.8L motors, that produce 180hp each. I am sure the new boats being quieter is a big improvement. But there was nothing wrong with the handling qualities of the precious boats. The were tight and a blast, just as the new ones. You can improve the previous as well as the new with the addition of fins, but you may find that you don't need them. Your screen name implies you fly, privately or for hire?

 

[Av8tor07]

You sound very much like us. Cruise, swim, chill, etc. I didn't think about the SS, but it would offer the full size Bimini and the 1.8L motors, that produce 180hp each. I am sure the new boats being quieter is a big improvement. But there was nothing wrong with the handling qualities of the precious boats. The were tight and a blast, just as the new ones. You can improve the previous as well as the new with the addition of fins, but you may find that you don't need them. Your screen name implies you fly, privately or for hire?

For hire out of NJ

 

[Av8tor07]

View attachment 45416 I thought the same as you about a tower and bought a sx230. I had two young kids all they wanted to do was tube and go for a swim hang at the beach etc.

Fast forward to three years later kids are 8 and 12 all they want to do is knee board, wakeboard and wakesurf. So I install a tower, now everyone is happy.

Do yourself a favour and buy a boat with a tower. Not only are they good for water sports but you can add speakers, lights, racks etc. Personally I would look for a used 2015 AR240.

Those AR240 are nice, but I wasn't looking into spending that kind of money.

 

[djetok]

The conext to me doesn't matter. I just didn't know if the articulating keel was a necessity for a newbie to the jet market.

Just steering fins cobra jets or thrust vectors instead of the keel

 

[swatski]

Just steering fins cobra jets or thrust vectors instead of the keel

That is true about steering. Definitely cobras for keeled boats because those add the second rod, BTW. However, the keel changes the way these boats not only steer/cruise but also reenter - cutting water in chop - tend to be much smoother running in chop as a result.
That became apparent to some of us during the Bimini/Exhuma soirees earlier this year.

 

[OCMD]

Skip the tower. Clearly from your posts you won't need it. I thought I did, but never looked back on not getting an AR. Save the cash. ANd don't get 210, YOU WILL REGRET the lack of power in comparison to the 212.

 

[Av8tor07]

Ok guys. So I got a call from a dealer in NJ. They have a 2016 212x listed for $47,350. No freight and no prep. Just a 3.5% tax and the motor vehicle licensing fees. I've seen those models listed anywhere from 41k to about 50k. The dealer says that I would get the 4 year Yamaha warranty, plus he'll throw in a safety kit. Extinguisher, anchor, etc. OTD price on one listed for about 41k was $46,300 after freight and prep, this one is located in Chicago, quite a drive from NJ. What do you guys think? I said that I wanted to wait till after the season,me said that the boat won't be discounted much from that, even with the 2017's out. Need advice. Thanks again

 

[bronze_10]

Not sure if the TR-1's are louder than MR-1's, but I love the sound of the engines as we are cruising down the lake, but I am a gearhead to the bone and love the sound of engines/horsepower.

me too!! ill adjust the throttles 50 rpm up or down on one engine just to get them to harmonize!!!! pure music!!