New 165 ID with reverse bucket problem

[Torkrench]

I recently purchased a 165 ID. From the first time I put it in the water it has had a slight reverse thrust in neutral. If I move the shift lever slightly into the forward position, the reverse thrust goes away and it seems to be fine. I figure that can be fixed by adjusting the shift cable at the shifter assembly. The bigger problem is that twice now while playing around with some tight turns, the shifter has gone into neutral by itself. I was checking the reverse bucket position the other day and noticed that it didn't seem to raise all the way to the locking latch. Again, if the shift cable is out of adjustment, that should probably take care of that problem...

Here's the issue though, If you disconnect the shift cable from the reverse bucket and raise the bucket all the way until the locking latch catches, you can still manually pull the bucket back down without disengaging the latch. From what I can tell by looking at the mechanism, it seems that when pressure is applied by the shift cable, the lever is moved out of the locking position to allow the bucket to move out of it's locked upright position. The only way I can get my bucket to stay locked in place is to apply pressure to the lever keeping it from popping out of it's latched position. It looks like there is a spring that is supposed to keep pressure on the latch, but there's a lot of freeplay before the spring applies any force. It's almost like the spring is too small or bent and not acting on the lever the way it should.

I have seen a few other posts about the scarabs having issues with the reverse bucket lock like this and i haven't been able to find anyone who has found a solution yet. I'm ready to take it back to the dealer to have them check it out, but that's 2 hours each direction for me, and if it's something that can be adjusted easily, I'd rather do that and save myself a trip.

Could someone with a working boat check to see if out of the water with the shift lever in full forward you can manually rotate the bucket (and shift lever) back to the neutral position from the back by the jet? I figure the reason the locking mechanism is there is to prevent that from happening. It's not a fun feeling when the boat decides to go back to neutral when you are in the middle of a turn at partial throttle.

 

[Winerocks]

Somebody else recently posted about a similar problem with his reverse buckets, but his dropped at high speed and made his boat spin out. He didn’t have a solution. What year is your boat?

 

[Luc Lafreniere]

165 owner here. My boat is in the yard. I'll check it out tomorrow and report back once I do. I've had that problem once, and it was because I slapped the shifter by mistake lol Otherwise, that's never happened to me in three seasons.

 

[Torkrench]

My boat is a 2019, just bought it with 0 hours when I picked it up.

 

[Nexus]

If I move the shift lever slightly into the forward position, the reverse thrust goes away and it seems to be fine.

Does the 195 not have BRP's iNR (intelligent Neutral and Reverse) system? I don't know about it popping into neutral, but that would certainly fix the reverse creeping issue.

And congrats on your new boat!

 

[Luc Lafreniere]

So no iNR on my 2015 model. I don't think it existed then. But I just checked and I can definitely push the bucket down when starting from full forward position. No locking. But you can definitely feel that there's some resistance at the start of the push down. But yeah, that's never happened to me.

 

[Nexus]

Does the 195 not have BRP's iNR (intelligent Neutral and Reverse) system?

So no iNR on my 2015 model. I don't think it existed then.

I meant to ask about the 165. But judging from Scarab's website, it doesn't appear to be an option (ID or otherwise). I guess I figured it was standard on all BRP products.

 

[Luc Lafreniere]

Yeah, I guess they sacrifice some things to get the price point fairly low. Frankly, I've never felt like I was missing it. I have total control of that little boat... maybe it's just not necessary because of the size. I wanted/needed a little boat because of the waterways I travel on. A series of small lakes interconnected by the narrowest channels you've ever seen (in fact, my 165 can barely make it through some of those areas, to give you an idea). That was the main reason I wanted the 165. But I'm very happy with it overall, although it has its flaws.

 

[Dean P]

Hi and to the forum!!! There should be a SS spring to help keep the lever in place and keep it locked. Mine was actually missing and the buckets were not being locked. I'll try to find a picture of it.

 

[Nexus]

Yeah, I guess they sacrifice some things to get the price point fairly low. Frankly, I've never felt like I was missing it. I have total control of that little boat... maybe it's just not necessary because of the size. I wanted/needed a little boat because of the waterways I travel on. A series of small lakes interconnected by the narrowest channels you've ever seen (in fact, my 165 can barely make it through some of those areas, to give you an idea). That was the main reason I wanted the 165. But I'm very happy with it overall, although it has its flaws.

My previous boat (Speedster 200) didn't have iNR, or docking mode for that matter. Having a separate fwd/rev control, as you do, gave me great control. The only difference now is that since my boat always crawled forwards when in neutral, I had to finess when I wanted stay still, and now I don't. As I said not a problem but that seems to be one of the gripes in the "Jet vs Prop" debate.

 

[Luc Lafreniere]

Yeah, true... if it's not perfectly neutral, you learn to compensate. Luckily enough, mine has been pretty close to perfect on that front since I've had it. I've had to make an adjustment to the steering to keep the wheel centered when straight, but that's it. Neutral is pretty close to being perfectly neutral. But yeah, the digital controls allow you to adjust that pretty quickly I hear.

 

[Dean P]

Here a picture of the lever which must move freely and always return (to home position) along with the spring. Hope this helps.

 

[Torkrench]

Here a picture of the lever which must move freely and always return (to home position) along with the spring. Hope this helps.

Yeah, everything that should be there appears to be. It just seems like the spring is too loose or too soft. If you hold that lever locked in place (helping the spring) then the bucket locks and won't go down unless the linkage applies force to the lever to release it. If you just pull the bucket down, the lever moves on it's own and releases the bucket. Luc stated he can pull his down manually as well, so maybe it's not supposed to lock completely. I adjusted the linkage at the shifter and I'll take it out tomorrow and see if anything has changed. I'm still curious if any of the Scarabs without INR lock in place completely in forward(meaning you can't pull the bucket down manually).

I'll try to go out and take a small video of the slop in the lever and see if that's common on other boats.

 

[Luc Lafreniere]

This has me curious. I'll check it out on my side too tomorrow. It's raining cats and dogs here... I'm a frail creature at times.

 

[Torkrench]

Ok, here's a video of what happens on mine:

20200515_123928.mp4

drive.google.com

That is with the shifter fully in forward. That's also after shortening the shifter cable 5 turns. Shortening the cable should lift the bucket a little bit to help reduce the reverse thrust in neutral. It also helped pull the bucket up all the way in forward, it just doesn't lock still. It takes very little effort to pull the bucket down like I am in the video.

 

[Dean P]

Yeah, everything that should be there appears to be. It just seems like the spring is too loose or too soft. If you hold that lever locked in place (helping the spring) then the bucket locks and won't go down unless the linkage applies force to the lever to release it. If you just pull the bucket down, the lever moves on it's own and releases the bucket. Luc stated he can pull his down manually as well, so maybe it's not supposed to lock completely. I adjusted the linkage at the shifter and I'll take it out tomorrow and see if anything has changed. I'm still curious if any of the Scarabs without INR lock in place completely in forward(meaning you can't pull the bucket down manually).

I'll try to go out and take a small video of the slop in the lever and see if that's common on other boats.

You may try to squeeze the spring clip some. This will create a little more pressure. Keep in mind it does not need much.

If the bucket does not lock, it should be adjusted by the bucket. Assuming your setup looks like mine: However, I do have iNR.

 

[Torkrench]

You may try to squeeze the spring clip some. This will create a little more pressure. Keep in mind it does not need much.

If the bucket does not lock, it should be adjusted by the bucket. Assuming your setup looks like mine: However, I do have iNR.

I tried adjusting from the back but after spinning the nut, I couldn't get it to go into the hole it came out of. I assume the white plastic seal going through the transom needs to be loosened so the cable can slide in a little bit. I don't have a crows foot socket or anything else i was able to get on to it to adjust it, so I did it from the shifter side instead. Since the boat doesn't have iNR, it shouldn't make any difference which side it gets adjusted on I think.

The interesting part is that if I disconnect the linkage from the bucket completely and force the latch all the way locked, the latch still releases just like it does in the video.

*Edit*
I just realized that I probably could have gotten the nut in if I had someone move the shifter while I was trying to put it in place.... I didn't even think about it at the time.

 

[Dean P]

Yeah, you just need to push or pull (real hard) to move it back into place. It'll move. I've done it lots of times.

Is there a steel plate for the lever to latch on. Refer to my picture above.

 

[Torkrench]

Yeah, you just need to push or pull (real hard) to move it back into place. It'll move. I've done it lots of times.

Is there a steel plate for the lever to latch on. Refer to my picture above.

Yeah, the steel plate is there. It attempts to latch, but doesn't hold. If I apply downward pressure to the lever, it will hold no matter how hard I pull on the bucket, so it appears the latch just doesn't hold down.

 

[Dean P]

I

Yeah, you just need to push or pull (real hard) to move it back into place. It'll move. I've done it lots of times.

Is there a steel plate for the lever to latch on. Refer to my picture above.

I'm asking cause it turns out mine was missing.