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Private purchase

dcmoore21

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Hello all,

New to boating and looking to purchase a used Yamaha in a private sale. The one I’m looking at has few hours and the price is right. The seller has his original loan from the Yamaha dealership and the purchase price is essentially to pay off his balance.

I’m trying to figure out how logistically to make this purchase. I assume Yamaha has his title. What I am worried about, which I would hope would never happen, would be to pay him for the boat and then he never pays off the loan. I’m left with a boat with a lein on it with no title in hand.

How does one do this? Can we do a conference call with Yamaha and I wire them the money and then arrange for them to send me the title? I also don’t want to have to rely on the seller to send me the title once the loan is paid off. Or should I just ask Yamaha to transfer the loan to me and then pay it off immediately? I’d rather not do that because I’m sure they’d charge some fees to do so.

Anyone have experience with this? I would imagine this isn’t a novel scenario.

thanks!!
 

Inthrustwetrust

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Hello all,

New to boating and looking to purchase a used Yamaha in a private sale. The one I’m looking at has few hours and the price is right. The seller has his original loan from the Yamaha dealership and the purchase price is essentially to pay off his balance.

I’m trying to figure out how logistically to make this purchase. I assume Yamaha has his title. What I am worried about, which I would hope would never happen, would be to pay him for the boat and then he never pays off the loan. I’m left with a boat with a lein on it with no title in hand.

How does one do this? Can we do a conference call with Yamaha and I wire them the money and then arrange for them to send me the title? I also don’t want to have to rely on the seller to send me the title once the loan is paid off. Or should I just ask Yamaha to transfer the loan to me and then pay it off immediately? I’d rather not do that because I’m sure they’d charge some fees to do so.

Anyone have experience with this? I would imagine this isn’t a novel scenario.

thanks!!
Never done it, but looking so posts on here I would not give him the money directly. I would call Yamaha and see if they have a preferred method. Seems like a couple people here recommended some methods to get the title and boat. Have a certified check in hand for the boat payable to the lean company, put check in envelope with the account info, and a second envelope with postage with your address on it and instructions to mail you the title in the envelope with the check. Go together to a post office or mail box and have it sent, take possession of the boat. I would recommend going to the post office to mail your envelope and get tracking on it. I would not leave without the boat, and I would recommend having a witness. Could also go to a notary with some paperwork, usually pretty cheap. There are some escrow places out there that can handle the transfer, going to cost some cash though. Could also do a wire transfer or maybe something over the phone. As a seller I would be a little more skeptical of this, there are some smart computer out there that could set up a fake website and try to pull something. Highly unlikely but you don’t want to pay a small fortune to find out the guy scammed you, took your cash, left you with a boat you can’t register and that a finance company will want to repo.

I had to return a couple things a few months ago, never got my refund so I reached out to the company, they claimed to never have received my return. I sent them my tracking info and proof of signature at there address. Magically they found my return and gave me my money back. Always cover your ass.
 

Robconn

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I am interested in upgrading to a larger Yamaha. Only obstacle was the loan terms. In 2016, Yamaha stated they would entertain a 5yr trade up program. It was nothing but a sales ploy and I fell for it:( Been to 2 Yamaha dealers and they seemed uninterested once they realized I had a step loan. So the 1st 5 yrs of payments is primarily interest only. I was told in order to entertain a deal I had to come up with $12,000 in negative equity. before a deposit on new boat. My intent is to explain why some used boats on the market are Priced as high as they are. Good luck in your quest.
 

dcmoore21

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Thanks for suggestions. I tried calling Yamaha financial but they wouldn’t even talk to me about it since I don’t hold the loan. Just hard to believe there’s not a more streamlined way to do this.
 

austinrb1

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You should be able to have the seller get on a call with his lender, conference you in, and then affirm they send title to you upon receipt of payment in full. You can also draft a purchase and sale agreement, record all particulars, notarize signatures, wire funds directly to his account, and have him provide title upon receipt.
 

Beachbummer

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What I did was complete bill of sale and take possession boat at the time of payment (minus $1000), with another signed agreement from the seller with his commitment to complete and sign all required to pass title to me. We mailed the check to the bank on the spot (he had prepaid down so my check would clear the lien) Once he had title I paid him the remaining $1000.

See what you can work out that gives you both comfort and assurance. Ultimately is about what risk you both are willing to accept.
 

adrianp89

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When I sold my ski, everything was done at the bank. They handled calling the lender and ensuring everything was smooth. That works well if you are getting a loan. Cash for the boat is a little different. It may not hurt to get a loan and let the bank handle it, then pay it off in a month.
 

FLBulldogger

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Actually the seller should be doing all the leg work. He should call Yamaha and obtain a 30 day payoff for the boat, some lenders will even fax or email the quote for you to see. He should ask Yamaha how they want to handle the transaction with electronic transfers from your bank to the lender (Yamaha or who ever bought the loan from the original lender), once you receive the payoff quote, arrange a wire or ACH transfer using the HIN as the reference #. As far as getting the title it really depends on the lender, I remember @haknslash had a hard time with Yamaha with the time it was going to take to get the title and it costs him at least one sale.
We sold our '13 SX190 last year and it was a headache until we just paid off the loan with our bank and then the transaction was smooth and the title was in our hands (electronically) within 24 hrs. Good luck, sometimes the folks at DMV can help with tips for a smooth process.
 

BigBlueJeep

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Thanks for suggestions. I tried calling Yamaha financial but they wouldn’t even talk to me about it since I don’t hold the loan. Just hard to believe there’s not a more streamlined way to do this.
I actually called Yamaha today and they talked to me about the process. I had the sellers account number but I explained who I was and what I was doing and they never asked for it, I'm not sure they would've taken it because they wouldn't give me any account specific info anyway. My understanding is the account holder can get a 3, 5, or 15 payoff either over the phone or emailed to them. The account holder can then forward the email to you so you have documentation. If you want to send the payment (cashiers check or wire) directly to Yamaha then the account holder needs to contact them to authorize. Once lien is settled they will only send title to account holder, but they need to sign it anyway. I also found out it could take longer then 30 days to send the title IF it's held by a bank/lender that Yamaha purchased and services the loan. The account holder would have to call to check on that. If it's the >30 days situation Yamaha can send some info in order to get the boat registered/titled with state/county but of course they will only send to account holder but I think they may be able to request it gets sent to you. Where i live you have to register in 30 days so they have a way to make that happen if the title will be late. They actually said they would 'fax' to the DMV which sounded like a complete cluster.

I think it's important the order you do things and having a good signed and notarized sales agreement which should lay out each step of the transaction. I would also only transfer funds to the bank if there's a lien and have seller get a cashiers check for any amount above purchase price and send that with your cashiers check, make copies of checks for both parties and tracking receipts. Wire transfers are a challenge because they are instant and if one party does their's and the other doesn't for some reason its an instant transaction that's hard to reverse. With the cashiers check they can issue a stop payment, but not until after both are sent to bank and then it should be spelled out in sales agreement. I think of it in terms if something goes wrong does your sales agreement cover it, and it can't be one sided and has to cover both parties. Unfortunately, if it goes south you need to get an attorney but with a good sales agreement may be covered.
 

BigBlueJeep

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A few other things: Who's name is on the boat and trailer? If it's multiple people its either listed as 'and' or 'or' and if it's 'and' then both need to sign everything. That may come up at the DMV. At the end you should walk away with the boat so if the seller cancels their cashier's check you at least have the boat, although Yamaha has the title. I think of it as what's my risk expose, ie amount the seller still owes, and can I pay that to settle the lien, get the title (although they still may only send it to the seller), and then have my attorney go after them for that amount and show they clearly broke the process laid out in the sales agreement. Someone mentioned an escrow agent, they problem is Yamaha won't send the title to anyone but seller so they don't really add anything other then if both parties think the other won't send their payments the escrow agent can collect each an send to bank but that's really all they can do, they can't sell title insurance or deal directly with bank like they can with a home purchase.
 

agannole93

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I looked at doing this and Yamaha wouldn't do anything but send the title to the current owner once payoff is received, and my bank told me they would not be involved in payoff, but would need a title in 60 days. And if I had not received title per agreement with seller, then I would need to take legal action against that seller. Luckily I live in a no title state as far as boats go, so registration wouldn't be an issue. But there are lots of hoops to jump through with yamaha
 

dcmoore21

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Thanks these are very helpful suggestions. What a mess. My state (KY) requires registration within 15 days of purchase and you must have title in hand. I can’t understand how anyone with a Yamaha loan could sell their boat if they can’t get the title to the purchaser in that time frame. But maybe that’s the point- Yamaha doesn’t want you to sell the boat haha.

This is what I’m thinking:
I signed a purchase agreement with stipulatation that I get the title upon purchase, so it’s technically already going to be void.
At closing after successful sea trial, we get on conference call with Yamaha and I wire them the full amount to pay off the loan after he pays me cash for the difference (which is less than a $1k). They send me/him notice of receipt of payment and release of lien.
We then sign a bill of sale and have it notarized, as well as any other documents
I leave with the boat
He sends me the signed title transferring it to me when he receives it in the mail. If he doesn’t... I guess I follow the appropriate routes for loss of title.
 

Beachbummer

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Sounds like a solid plan. My only suggestion would be building some financial incentive for him to complete. Even if it's 200 bucks, it will make him vested in ensuring you receive the title timely so can get paid for the last bit.
 

ZGhost

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Go to your bank and tell them you’d like a loan to purchase a boat. They will handle the transaction and all associated details and on top of this, they will bear responsibility for any errors or issues. You are simply complying with their procedures. They have done this kind of thing over and over and over with cars, boats, motorcycles, you name it. Once everything is settled, pay off the loan in a month or two and the small interest you would have paid is for your peace of mind. Make sure to inquire about any fees associated with early loan payoff.

This may cost just little more than a straight cash transaction but you can’t put a price on the peace of mind and the assurance your money is safe and not at risk since the bank handled the transaction according to their procedures. Your bank loan officer will instruct and ask the seller about everything needed, they will contact the existing loan company, in this case Yamaha Financials, and execute what is needed to wrap up this deal.

Trust me, this is your safest option without undue risk.
 
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BigBlueJeep

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@dcmoore21 I think you should get the bill of sale signed and notarized before you transfer money, especially a wire, May depend on what''s in the PO.

@Beachbummer I like the idea of $1K to make sure you get the title.

@ZGhost I was thinking that too, bit weighed against the leverage I have as a cash buyer. I think that's a good idea though.
 

agannole93

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Go to your bank and tell them you’d like a loan to purchase about. They will handle the transaction and all associated details and on top of this, they will bear responsibility for any errors or issues. You are simply complying with their procedures. They have done this kind of thing over and over and over with cars, boats, motorcycles, you name it. Once everything is settled, pay off the loan in a month or two and the small interest you would have paid is for your peace of mind. Make sure to inquire about any fees associated with early loan payoff.

This may cost just little more than a straight cash transaction but you can’t put a price on the peace of mind and the assurance your money is safe and not at risk since the bank handled the transaction according to their procedures. Your bank loan officer will instruct and ask the seller about everything needed, they will contact the existing loan company, in this case Yamaha Financials, and execute what is needed to wrap up this deal.

Trust me, this is your safest option without undue risk.
The deal I looked at was financing with a bank. My bank would not get involved and Yamaha would not accept payoff and send title to anyone but the current owner. Maybe it depends on who is servicing the existing loan. If it's not financed through yamaha maybe that works better
 

BigBlueJeep

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The deal I looked at was financing with a bank. My bank would not get involved and Yamaha would not accept payoff and send title to anyone but the current owner. Maybe it depends on who is servicing the existing loan. If it's not financed through yamaha maybe that works better
@agannole93 That is really interesting. Are you saying a person cannot sell a boat if they have a lien through Yamaha finance IF the buyer also has to finance their purchase?
 

agannole93

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@agannole93 That is really interesting. Are you saying a person cannot sell a boat if they have a lien through Yamaha finance IF the buyer also has to finance their purchase?
I wouldn't necessarily say that you "can't". But it seemed to me that there were very few protections for the buyer.

My bank said this: We will only make out the check to the seller since you are purchasing from the seller, not from yamaha finance. They told me getting the title (and essentially payoff) was between me and the seller.

Yamaha finance said: We will not accept funds or a transfer from anyone but the current owner, even a buyer's bank through a purchase. I also asked if there was a way to reassign the title so the seller would no longer be a middle man and I could guarantee the title would come straight to me or to my bank. They said no, that when I pay the seller, the seller then needs to pay off the loan, they send title to seller and then again, "it's between you and the seller to get the title."

Again, I live in a no title state so I couldn't care less about the actual title, outside of the fact that I would need within 60 days for the loan. It's possible, but you're relying heavily on all parties to do what they say they are going to do. I might consider purchasing this way from an active member on here if a lot of feedback said they're good for it, but someone with no familiarity you're basically trusting they're going to use your money for payoff and that they'll get you the title after.
 

HangOutdoors

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Money Laundering/Income Tax Evasion 101. 1st Party takes out loan on large ticket item. 2nd Party pays off loan directly. 1st Party gets title and sells boat for clean money. Happens all the time. A lot in Mortgages. I could owe you $100k that you don't want to pay taxes on and that I have that is either good money or dirty. I pay the bank directly and payoff/down your mortgage. They don't require source of funds since it is a payment on liened property. Then you either sell the property or take out another loan on it. since it is a loan it won't be looked as income, just your borrowed money.

They are trying to prevent that.
 

HangOutdoors

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Also another example that I have seen in my life is that you buy a big ticket item like a boat, car, home, etc. Your employer or someone your doing work for as a contractor etc., or whatever, makes your monthly payments. You don't pay taxes and they don't have to pay all the matches on it. IRS loves finding these

Whats unfortunate is that when someone wants to just buy a used boat, they have obstacles to jump through which make it so much rougher.

This is also why, with most larger credit card companies start to hold funds for payment if too many come in too quick. They basically start skip tracing everything.
 
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