Second battery not charging with blue sea add a battery help

[wakeformer]

So this winter I added a blue seas add a battery kit with a new battery. This weekend we where out on Norris for about 8 hours mostly cruising did about 1 hour of cove time when my radio cut out. I checked the voltage on my house battery the new one and it was reading 11volts. I was under the impression that if the engine was running it would charge both batteries. The engine battery was full and had no issues all weekend. Lucky I brought my battery charger with me and I charged my house battery for the next day on the water. On the second day it only lasted 4 hours. Any help or advice would be great. This is the blue sea kit I bought and I have a die hard gold battery. http://www.bluesea.com/products/7650/Add-A-Battery_Kit_-_120A

 

[Rigger]

Gotta picture of your setup?

 

[Rigger]

how your wires are run?

 

[wakeformer]

I wired it up just like the diagram on the blue seas web site page I posted minus the ground bar

 

[wakeformer]

I ran all new 4 gauge wires from the batteries to the switches and isolator to the batteries. I just tied the ground on the isolator to the house battery only. Do you think that is the issue

 

[David Analog]

Without inspecting your system, I cannot say that everything is right.
However, I can tell you that from your description of conditions and per ACR behaviors that which you described would be normal.
An ACR does NOT automatically combine and therefore charge the house bank once the engine is running. The ACR 'separates' once the house bank side voltage drops below a predetermined voltage threshold in order to preserve the charging side voltage. The ACR 'combines' once the voltage reaches a predetermined voltage on the charging side of the ACR. Once the house battery is depleted beyond a certain point and the ACR attempts to 'combine' as the engine is running and elevates the voltage on the charging side, a deeply discharged house battery suddenly in parallel will then cause the charging side voltage to instantly sag. And, the ACR will open again immediately for a prescribed length of time. As it continues this trial over intervals it may remain 'open' for the remainder of the day. This certainly increases your dependency on AC shore charging. In contrast, if the ACR was governed by the ignition rather than a sensed voltage threshold you could damage the boat's charging system and deplete the starting battery even while you are running underway. That's not much of an alternative.
While an ACR is a fixed function its behaviors will definitely change in response to different systems and different conditions.
It can do what you need it to. Possible reasons for not working as you wish is inadequate battery capacity, degraded battery condition, inadequate shore charger capacity, starting off the day with less than a full charge, killing the deep cycle battery(s) by discharges below 11.8 to 12.0 volts (50% capacity). Fortunately the exact cause can be confirmed with a basic multimeter.
You can also influence the ACR's behavior by turning off the stereo for a period long enough while the ACR has a chance to latch closed and start recharging the house battery. This is useful on long holiday weekends at a distant destination where AC power may not be available overnight.

 

[wakeformer]

Thanks for all the responses

I would like to know if I need to tie the grounds together between the batteries and the ACR

 

[Murf'n'surf]

Can you post a quick sketch of your setup? where does the ground from the other battery go?

 

[maboat]

I just tied the ground on the isolator to the house battery only.

Without a common ground there is no complete circuit between the batteries even if the ACR combines. Charging current cant flow into the house battery if there is not return path to the ground on the charging source

 

[txav8r]

The ACR is not hooked to the battery grounds! It should be directly between the two position posts of each battery. There is a ground wire that serves only as ground for the LED indicator light on the ACR. Sounds like it is hooked up wrong to me.

 

[woodard1983]

What do you have for a system? If it's only lasting 4 hours I'd guess that you may be having an issue w/that battery?

other than that w/o a diagram or picture I don't think any of us can do anything more than guess at what the problem is...write it up on a piece of paper and scan it, that would probably give us the best idea of what is going on

 

[Detonate]

The ACR is not hooked to the battery grounds! It should be directly between the two position posts of each battery. There is a ground wire that serves only as ground for the LED indicator light on the ACR. Sounds like it is hooked up wrong to me.

I'm fairly certain the ACR will NOT work without the Ground. How else is it going to detect the voltage to know to combine the batteries...

Which by the way, it only combines when the starting side is above 12.9 volts. Honestly the ACR is almost worthless in our measly boats in my opinion... Especially if you have any significant stereo equipment. I want to wire the manual combine switch up to the helm so that I can force it to combine, even when less than 12.9 on the starting side.

EDIT, from the manual..

 

[maboat]

Which by the way, it only combines when the starting side is above 12.9 volts. Honestly the ACR is almost worthless in our measly boats in my opinion...

The stators put out over 13v when then engine is running. This is enough to trigger the ACR into combine mode. Each engine's stator puts out about 15a so with both engines running there is about 30a worth of charging current which is more than most plug-in chargers.

It's not much if we only run the engines 5-10 minutes from the boat ramp to the party cove. But if youre pulling skiers or tubes or surfing all day long, or if youre just cruising around, that's a steady 30a of charging the whole time.

For me the ACR seems to keep all the batteries topped off while I'm towing or cruising even with the music blasting. Then when we finally get to the anchor spot, I'm starting with full batteries and the countdown starts when the engines turn off. If I anchor in one place for a while, then cruise around some more it will start charging back up. May not be a full charge, but it will extend the music time for the next anchoring spot.

Without the ACR (or manual combine switch) your house batteries start draining as soon as you turn on the music even with the engines running.

 

[Detonate]

The stators put out over 13v when then engine is running. This is enough to trigger the ACR into combine mode. Each engine's stator puts out about 15a so with both engines running there is about 30a worth of charging current which is more than most plug-in chargers.

It's just opinion on my part, but I just can't think of any instance, ever... ever. Where my house battery had started to become low, and driving around and not manually combining the batteries, the ACR automatically charged it up any significant amount.
I can't even say whether or not the batteries ever combined automatically, because I didn't install the remote LED.

 

[maboat]

Maybe yours is not working? I've always had the remote switch with indicator LED as well as dual voltmeters and I have definitely watched it behaving as I expected

Perhaps I need to rephrase. Im not expecting it to charge drained house batteries up any significant amount. But it does limit the amount of DISCHARGE to the house bank while the engines are running.

For you, it should be a big benefit while doing all that surfing. But then again, your ACR may not be working properly

 

[maboat]

Also I believe you have the older style ACR like me? It has adjustable voltage levels. Maybe yours got set too high and never combines?

 

[Detonate]

I have the newer one. And it does work... When I hook it up to a battery charger at home, I have watched it combine batteries. But when on the water, I've never seen the running engines generate enough of a charge to the house to make it combine. I suspect it does more like what @David Analog was saying. It combines, and the house battery is too drained, so it almost immediately un-combines, and then waits.... rinse, repeat.

 

[Glassman]

I ran all new 4 gauge wires from the batteries to the switches and isolator to the batteries. I just tied the ground on the isolator to the house battery only. Do you think that is the issue

Yes.

And check your start isolator wire. It won't charge if you do not have that wired correctly.

From Manual:

SI-ACR Installation:
• To minimize corrosion to wire and terminals, mount in a dry and protected location. Avoid locations directly
above battery banks.
• To sense charging sources on either battery bank, connect one battery bank positive to stud terminal A.
Connect the other battery bank positive to stud terminal B.
• Connect the quick connect terminal marked GND (ground) to the DC system ground through a ten to fifteen amp
in-line fuse to prevent fault currents from flowing in this wire.
• Connect a wire from the quick connect terminal marked SI (start isolation) to the terminal or wire running
from the start key switch to the starter solenoid. Make this connection through an in-line fuse of 1 to 10 Amps.
This connection can be made at the start key switch or at the starter solenoid, but must be to the line that is positive only when cranking.

Connection to a line that is positive while the engine is normally running will prevent the charging relay from working properly.

• To connect a remote LED indicator, connect the red wire of the LED to a positive source through a 2A inline fuse.
Connect the yellow wire of the LED to the quick connect terminal marked LED.
• Remote indicator lamp – mirrors "COMBINED" LED on unit. Appropriate 12/24V LEDs include Blue Sea Systems PNs 8033
(amber), 8171 (red), or 8172 (green).

 

[David Analog]

Assuming the ACR is operating correctly....
The combined stators deliver 28 to 30 amps at rpm. The boat operations, ignition, etc. consume half that. A reasonably efficient 1000 watt stereo at full volume could draw 25+ amps. A decently discharged group 24 battery could easily represent another 10 amps of current demand and even more initially. So once the ACR attempts the 'combine' status based on the isolated higher charging side voltage upon starting the engine after a stay at rest the boat's charging system is in deficit. And once the collective load is placed in parallel with the starting battery plus charging output the voltage can and often does sag below the 'separate' threshold. Thus, the stereo battery doesn't get a charge. This is common on a properly functioning ACR/VSR, particularly on a Yamaha that doesn't have enough charging power to stiffen the voltage. Simple voltage measurements at key points prove this behavior.
So if you are in deficit then turn 'Off' the dang stereo for long enough for the ACR to stay latched. It won't take that long to build a sufficient charge while underway at a good clip. Then bring the stereo on line a while later and take it easy.

 

[Murf'n'surf]

So a manual combine switch makes more sense of our Yamaha's? @David Analog