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Stone House Front - Cracks

4x15mph

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Anyone have any masonry or experience with stone facing on a home and maintenance needed for cracks? My house is 24 years old and a section of the front of the house is sided/faced with real stone and mortar. There are hair line cracks, not large splits, in different sections that I hope is due to settling and not moisture contraction/expansion.

Any recommendations on who to call to begin looking at this further? I don't want to necessarily start with a mason since they may be inclinded to want to take out mortar and redo this. I want to do it right but I also want to be careful about over doing something that may be aesthetic only.
 

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You definitely need a mason. He will take out mortar where cracked and replace it. The reason you want to do it is to stop moisture from getting in and causing more damage. It is common from settling on stone and brick veneer. I have to have it done every 5 to 10 years, you just can't get away from it completely. I have 67 piers under my house and it still moves enough to have settling...it just won't fall past the piers, but it will heave when we get 13 inches of rain over a weekend!:eek:
 

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Hopefully @Speedling will have some good advice.

Do you know how thick the stone is? I see less than one inch thick stone being used frequently now.
 

Speedling

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Hairline cracks aren't the end of the world but all depends on where it is, why it cracked, type of stone etc.

Typically it is cultured stone unless you have an older house, in which case real stone is more common. If it is cultured stone, those little cracks can let moisture in and it will freeze and push the stone out.

I will see if I can't wrote up more later as I am at work.
 

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Pics would help the pro diagnose your crack.......um........that didn't come out right!
 

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Thank you for helping and I took some pictures so you can see what I am talking about. The house is 24 years old so the stone that is used is over 3" thick based on what I see on the sides and where it joins up to the window.

I circled some examples of the cracking. Thoughts?

crack.jpg IMG_0930.JPG IMG_0931.JPG IMG_0934 1.JPG
 

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I'm no expert on masonry but you should make sure that water isn't rolling behind the stone around the window ledge through the same crack. The slope on the ledge looks pretty steep but there might be a crack on the side.
 

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The crack in the top pic appears to start at the brick ledge and the second pic looks like it originates from the window. It is common for homes to leak in both locations. In my personal experience I would bet that you have a water leak getting behind the stone in both locations. Could be as simple as missing caulk so start by looking for how the water is getting in. Do it now before we get into the really cold weather. Once the source is found and fixed you can probably get a silicone/mortar caulk that will fill the cracks to stop the water and match the existing stone.
 

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@Team Bristow , I think you are on to something. Here is what the window ledge looks like from the 2nd story window, above the cracks in picture #2 (below the sill). That's a culprit for sure.

I did some caulking the other day on the first story but I will now go after the 2nd story windows and sills. This sucks.... I need to get a masonry over here to look at the cause/effect.

IMG_0937.JPG
 

Speedling

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Cause: just like concrete, mortar will do two things, get hard, and crack.
However, when it's all along the windows like that, you do need to watch it and be carefull.
In your first picture, there is white something next to where you circled. Is that your angle iron above the window? If so, that is supposed to be covered by the mortar all the way to the window. If it sticks out too far (as some masons will say) then it needs to be notched in the area past the window. Basically the typical angle is 3 1/2 x 3 1/2" and sometimes the stone or brick only goes about 3" deep. This is moreso the case with stone because you don't have a cavity typically. In any case, If that steel is exposed, then water for sure is getting caught there and going into the mortar/stone and causing it to crack. This could very well cause any and everything below it to have issues as well.

Picture two. I believe you are showing us the depth of the stone here. What I notice is that you have dryvit/stucco up against it. Be careful and watch that as well because I have seen it a million times where the mortar/brick/stone absorbs water, and the dryvit doesn't have a proper barrier behind it and the stone will then "wick" into the foam of the dryvit and cause moisture to come in. Best solution to this is to have a proper barrier behind the dryvit and also when they install the dryvit to coat the sides of that foam, and/or the brick to keep the moisture from transferring.

Picture three. I don't see any cracks, but certainly be sure to have GOOD caulk around all the windows.

Picture four. Also picture 5 that you posted. There seems to be no caulk between the window and the stone sill. It is hard to see if there is much pitch on the sill either. A sill is supposed to have adequate pitch to let the water run away from the house. Even so, it's supposed to be caulked to the window so that a driving windy rain still can't make it's way in.

If the original installers did things properly and had not only a good vapor barrier but also some sort of waterproof membrane (for up here with cultured stone they make us put two layers of roofing paper for code) and then also rubber flashing over all steels and under all stone sills. This also requires a weep rope or vent of some sort. Hard to see from the photos if you have that or not, but look under the sill and on top of the metal sill for sure. Without the weep or vent any water that DOES get in there, can't get out and just sits and either rusts our the steel, or freezes and cracks the stone. If they didn't do this, then there is a good chance there is no flashing either.

The ONLY way to repair cracked mortar is to take a grinder and cut it out and tuck point it back in. You then have to try and match the mortar as best you can. You can go to Menards or wherever and try one of their just add water mixes, but I'll bet with it being a bit older and with that much stone they used either a Brixment and sand mix, or a portland/lime/sand mix where you add everything separately. In which case one batch is a full wheelbarrow. We call this a "single" of mud.

If it were my house, I would look for the weeps first. I would maybe even pop off the stone sills (careful! they look pretty thin there man! Limestone sills are cheap very good replacements if needed) and check everything out and make sure there was flashing etc. in there. You can also get a mastic, which is a type of tar to seal up the flashing while you are in there. Oh, and make end dam's to keep any water that gets under the window/sill from wicking into adjacent stone and mortar.

I haven't seen that type of mortar striking before, it's very unique! A cool chiseled look to it. I would try and keep that if you can and try repairing what is needed. Taking off a sill isn't too bad as long as you don't crack it. Laying just that in a slightly different color mortar isn't so bad and won't be noticed by anyone but you and maybe a mason. Only other option is to take ALL the stone down and re lay it all. That's expensive and time consuming and messy. I don't know about over there, but we charge between $200-$250 a day for side jobs, and some of the better guys won't even come out for less than $300 a day. That's per man, and they will want to bring out like 2 bricklayers and a laborer. If you DO hire it out, do the demolition yourself and make everything as clean as possible. Get the mortar off the stone etc. so they just come in and lay it up.

FYI, I have been in masonry for 16 years, and am the 3rd generation. I am the head laborer at our company, Colvin Masonry. 75% of my job is usually doing the stuff that is broke, hard to work on, or just a royal PITA.

Please hit me up with any other questions! I could go on and on, but without seeing it in person sometimes this is the best you can do. Pictures are great though, really made it clear!

Lee Colvin AKA Speedling
 

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This forum is incredible. The knowledge base around here is insane.
 

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@Speedling , outstanding! Thank you

I need to bring someone in that could look at things like you did here. The sills are definitely part of the problem and there needs to be more caulk around the windows. The angle iron is also an issue since it is exposed and runs well past each window. I don't know about what the vents/weeps are but I will start some research on google. I guarantee that I don't have additional vapor or moisture barriers other than the older style foam insulation board that I have seen behind the stucco.

My only question is who would be the right type of contractor to bring in to give me an assessment? Is that a mason?

I may PM you as I go through this to see if I can talk to you on the phone. Thanks again to everyone that helped me with this
 

Speedling

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You probably want to ask friends/family if they know anyone in the area that does good work. Reputation can mean a lot, but those are usually the guys that have plenty to do.
The angle iron is supposed to be about 4 inches past the window on each side, it's just not supposed to stick out past the surface of the veneer (stone, brick whatever).
Found this really quick, and seems to be a pretty accurate site:
http://www.homeownersnetwork.com/booktopic/masonry-brick-stone-veneer/
 

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This is outstanding! I have the same issues and now I have the answers. I really appreciate the wealth of knowledge on this form!
 

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@Speedling , I have a similar question. Is there a grouted caulk product that you recommend for area that have frequent movement or continued movement? I have timber beams inside that have continued to shrink after installation. They are surrounded by limestone and mortar and now have a gap or show signs of settling over the years.

I alos have similar settling issues outside that have been repaired once but have come back over the years. Fortunately, none of them are big nor am I really worried about water as I have wrap and weep holes or they are in dry areas (porch, under large eves, etc.). I don't mean to derail the OPs thread. Hopefully this adds to it.
 

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Excellent stuff. Local masonry contractor is stopping today to take a look.
 

Speedling

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@JetPowered
Pictures will help once again.
You may want something like a control joint material. How big is the gap becoming? Also, Also is the timber secured using nails or a bracket etc?
You may need to shim the timber up with plastic shims as well. For a deeper cavity to caulk, you need backer rod of the right size. Backer rod is a flexible foam that will allow the caulk to have something to go up against and still allow movement. Again, pictures!
 

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@Speedling , just a quick update. Mason was here and he showed me how the stone has been repointed before.... he suggested the following:
1) regrade against the house since the front was sloping towards the house/foundation. Just an observation so I put about 800 pounds of dirt in place this weekend.
2) the windows had several compromised areas around the mortar and window frames. He recommended I seal these up and with 70 degrees on Sunday, it was a perfect day. Done
3) he is giving me a quote to point the problem areas of the stone front. He wants to dig out sections and redo the mortar. I didn't want to do this while we head into colder weather and he agreed that it may be best to wait until we have the warmer weather in the spring. He talked about adding some kind of antifreeze to the mortar but he agreed that I could probably wait a few more months.

Does the plan sound solid? Thanks again
 

Speedling

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I highly recommend not using antifreeze. Most towns have banned it's use here. Dislike accelerant as well. Nothing severe should happen and the mason will do a better job and the mortar will be better quality if you just wait for spring.

Hope it all goes well!
 
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