Tongue Weight vs Level Trailer

[Markk]

Worked on tongue weight balance and other spring maintenance today.

Findings from the tongue scale surprised me. When sitting at my normal ball height of 16” the weight was 496lbs. After that I leveled the trailer and to my surprise tongue weight climbed to 584lb. The tongue height when trailer was level was 22”. I used a pallet scale to measure both times.




In other news I did the typical spring oil change, spark plug change, tire pressure check, filled the bearing buddies, topped off brake fluid and measure for bunk board replacement.

On both of my engines, Plug #1 takes longer to tighten than any of the other plugs. Anyone else notice that?

 

[Neutron]

We have noticed and it is well documented here that these boats are set up way too tongue heavy. Even according to Shorelandr.
5 to 7 percent by there recommendation
As far as your plug change. All plugs should tighten the same

 

[Seadeals]

You could try flipping the ball to the other side of your hitch and installing the other way so it is higher. See how it tows.

 

[bumpy]

I'm surprised as well. Your tire pressure is equal on both axles? The pad you're working on is level? Both axles at the same height? It seems that if those thing are right, the weight would be evenly distributed between the axles, and the tongue weight would be lower when the trailer is level.
Edit: Maybe that happens when the tongue weight is set properly.

 

[Mainah]

Try greasing the trailers suspension zerks and making sure the equalizers are moving freely. 22 inches seems a bit high to me for a level trailer. Perhaps try the level just in front if the wheels. Obviously that weight is really high. Love the use of the pallet jack/scale/dolly. Never noticed that on plug one.

 

[2kwik4u]

Weight shouldn't change with only 8 in of height change. I suspect you have something in the suspension bound up and unloading the front axle.

I would recheck all numbers to verify, grease all joints, go for a drive on a bumpy road to exercise the suspension, then check again.

I've seen spring hangers and shackles frozen in position on tandem axle trailers before. That case manifested as a really worn and overloaded front tire.

 

[RedBarron55]

If the tandem axles are binding the tongue weight will vary and the CG will also shift.
What is the total weight?
10% or so should be on the pin.
At this weight you should be using a weight distributing hitch.
It the total weight is less than 5000 lbs then the tongue is too heavy and perhaps the axles can be shifted to the front slightly to balance the trailer.
Most pickups require a WDH over 5000 lbs by manufacturers specs.

 

[Liveto99]

Weight distributing hitches should not be used on boat trailers at all.

 

[swatski]

Worked on tongue weight balance and other spring maintenance today.

Findings from the tongue scale surprised me. When sitting at my normal ball height of 16” the weight was 496lbs. After that I leveled the trailer and to my surprise tongue weight climbed to 584lb. The tongue height when trailer was level was 22”. I used a pallet scale to measure both times.

View attachment 90601View attachment 90602
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In other news I did the typical spring oil change, spark plug change, tire pressure check, filled the bearing buddies, topped off brake fluid and measure for bunk board replacement.

On both of my engines, Plug #1 takes longer to tighten than any of the other plugs. Anyone else notice that?
View attachment 90605View attachment 90606

Great write up!
If your tongue weight goes up that much when rising the tongue, seems liek the front axle acts like a fulcrum. I did not know there were grease zerks there in the equalizer between the axles... until I think @Mainah pointed it out to me in one thread. May need to grease/loosen those up?
I would say - level trailer is super important with a double axle. But you do not want much more than 400lbs on that tongue.

WDHs are not for boat trailers with their long skinny tongues, IMHO, that just does not work. Sooner or later those get pinned in a turn or stuck on a steep ramp...

With the spark plugs - I see a lot of anti-seize, could that be a factor? With anti-seize I would not use a torque wrench, just finger tight plus quarter turn, what I was taught.

--

 

[2kwik4u]

I think Reese makes a WDH explicitly designed for both trailers with long tongues and surge brakes.

I'll go find it. Brb

I swear Reese makes one. I'm going to keep looking

FAQ's - Equal-i-zer® Hitch

Answers to the questions you may have about the Equal-i-zer hitch.

www.equalizerhitch.com

They claim to work with surge brakes,but require a pole tongue adapter

 

[RedBarron55]

Take the arms off before launching, but still there are basically no trucks certified for weights over 5000 lbs without WDHs.
So keep your weight below 5000 lbs, easy

 

[haknslash]

If the tandem axles are binding the tongue weight will vary and the CG will also shift.
What is the total weight?
10% or so should be on the pin.
At this weight you should be using a weight distributing hitch.
It the total weight is less than 5000 lbs then the tongue is too heavy and perhaps the axles can be shifted to the front slightly to balance the trailer.
Most pickups require a WDH over 5000 lbs by manufacturers specs.

That's because truck mfg's use a hilarious Class III hitch and gloat their BS marketing weight pulling numbers while using *WDH numbers. I would not use a WDH for a boat. Those are more for travel trailers, horse trailers, etc. If towing a larger/heavier boat I'd go with a Class IV hitch if you have to carry a heavier boat.

I went looking down the WDH road when I bought my new boat because it is heavier than my Class III hitch was rated for when using standard 2" ball receiver. I don't know about other trailers and boats but the WDH hitch like that Equilizer above would not work on a Boatmate trailer because of how far back and angled the frame is compared to say a travel trailer, for which they are intended for. See this Q/A post on etrailer and see how he even mentions the additional A-frame piece may be required for the boat trailer Weight Distribution System for a Boat Trailer with Surge Brakes | etrailer.com . In the end by the time you buy the WDH and any optional mounts to make it work for a long single channel like a boat frame it would cost hundreds of dollars. It just depends on the trailer. But even still, IMO it's not worth the hassle and cost of a WDH for pulling only a boat and I would just upgrade the hitch to Class IV if you needed it. If you always pulled heavy stuff and feel you need to redistribute the load over the front wheels then by all means go the WDH route. I suspect most boat owners don't know they've exceeded their Class III hitch.

I know this doesn't have much to do with OP's post. Just mainly commenting in regards to WDH and boat trailers.

 

[RedBarron55]

A class IV hitch also requires a WDH over 500 lbs pin weight, as a coincidence.
Hence over 5000 lbs (10% happens to be 500 lbs) a WDH is required per the specs.

 

[haknslash]

A class IV hitch also requires a WDH over 500 lbs pin weight, as a coincidence.
Hence over 5000 lbs (10% happens to be 500 lbs) a WDH is required per the specs.

My Curt Class IV has a tongue weight capacity of 1,000 lbs, twice that of my Ford factory tow package Class III (500 lbs). If using a WDH on my Class IV the tongue weight capacity increases to 1,400 lbs and maximum towing weight of 14,000 lbs (far exceeding what my 2WD Supercrew truck is rated for lol).

 

[Sbrown]

Your findings with regards to tongue height and weights is absolutely normal. Normal ride height for your trailer is 22", which is a surprisingly common height. The ball on your truck should be set up so the trailer rides level. This may mean putting your ball height at 23 or 24 inches static. The reason the tongue weight drops at 16" is because your front axle suspension is absorbing some of the load, which again, while not the right way to do things, is absolutely normal. Set the ball height correctly on your truck and get the tongue weight correct with the trailer level. You, your truck, and your trailer will be happy that you did.

 

[swatski]

Take the arms off before launching, but still there are basically no trucks certified for weights over 5000 lbs without WDHs.
So keep your weight below 5000 lbs, easy

You are correct about manufacturers recommendations for WDH hitches. However this is simply not practical w/trailering boats. Most boat trailers do not accept WDH.
Trailer hitch class is irrelevant beyond the weight ratings.

As far as the “5000 lbs limit” - keep in mind it is NOT easy to obey as it is exceeded by every single 24 footer Yamaha jet boat on the trailer.

As far as tongue weight ratings are not the same for boats and other trailers, it’s 5 to 7% for boat trailers not 10 to 15%. People tend to forget about this. Primary reason for the difference has to do with the aerodynamics of boats in tow. Because typical open bow boat will not buffet the air, in terms of aerodynamic drug, the way a box trailer or camper does.

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[RedBarron55]

From Ford: Guide to towing | Vehicle Features | Official Ford Owner Site

Notes: • Calculated with SAE J2807 method. • Do not exceed trailer weight of 5,000 lbs. when towing with bumper only. • Trailer tongue load weight should be 10% of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue load weight and weight of passengers and cargo cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label. (https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/conten...neral/pdf/guides/19Towing_Ford_F150_Oct25.pdf )

Class III – Heavy-Duty
3,501-5,000 lb. Gross Trailer Weight
500 lb. Gross Tongue Weight
Used for dual-axle or large single-axle travel trailers
Used on properly equipped trucks and SUVs
Conventional weight-distributing hitch not required unless specified for a particular vehicle
Class IV – Extra-Heavy-Duty
5,001-12,000 lb. Gross Trailer Weight
1,200 lb. Gross Tongue Weight
Used for the largest travel and fifth-wheel trailers made for recreation
Used on trucks and SUVs; most can be equipped to handle trailers in this class
Most applications require a conventional weight-distributing or fifth-wheel hitch

Here is a link to an adapter for WDH to a pole trailer.
Pole-Tongue Adapter for Equal-i-zer Weight Distribution Systems - 14,000 lbs GTW, 1,400 lbs TW Equal

Here is a graph of the manufacturers max rating and the green bar shown the point where a WDH is required abd the blue the maximun for the model.



I don't mean to be a spoil sport but the * beside the ratings on your truck usually say "properly equipped" and the WDH is a part of that.
If you were to have an accident the lack of the Proper Equipment might make the difference in determining fault.

 

[Mainah]

To many folks points there is a lot different about a boat trailer where tow rating would likley be higher if based on the lower tounge weight percentage, lower air drag, and surge brakes of most boat trailers. Truck makers are not going to go through the trouble of even more caveats not that the legal team would even let them. For 24foot yami: Class IV, level trailer, within all other gross, axle, tire, etc. weight ratings will likey be safer than towing a 4999 lb box trailer or max allowable trailer with wdh.

Do your own research, make your own decision, keeping in mind that there are possible legal issues at play in case of accident.

What I like most about this thread is that @Markk demonstrated that routine maintenance is important. Quite likley that something needs done to his trailer. All of these ratings are worthless if the equipment is not maintained and not in good operating condition.

 

[haknslash]

Our new boat has a Boatmate trailer and they build them so that the tongue is 10% of the trailer weight. When I hooked up the same style of boat I'm getting I was surprised to see the sag wasn't bad at all. In fact I want to say my Shorlandr trailer on the Yamaha had a similar amount of sag despite weighing much less. Of course that was a single axle trailer vs tandem axle but it seemed as though the Shorlandr and Yamaha was more front bias than the Boatmate and Moomba with just gross weights being considered.

 

[the MfM]

In the RV world mfr supplied trailer dry weights are known to be very optimistic. Has anyone loads their boat like they would for a typical trip and brought it to a scale?

Yamaha lists the 24’ boats with a dry weight of ~3500. I assume that doesn’t include the trailer. By the time you add gear and a full tank of gas you could easily be over the 5k limit a lot of 1/2 ton trucks have without the wdh.