Torn... next Yamaha vs an actual Surf boat

[vxooxv]

I've had my 2006 Yamaha for several years now. I've completed just about every mod on here and added 8k in Wetsounds Equipment. I love my Yamaha but...

Here comes my friend with a 2018 Wakesetter. Have you tried surfing he asks? No.. that was last summer and we've been surfing ever since. Malibu, Mastercraft, Supra, Axis.. everyone has them!

My wife has finally approved the purchase of a new boat. I want to surf. My friends want to surf. My kids want to surf. I LOVE the Yamaha but... I don't want to put an 800lb fatsac on the swim deck just to surf. How do you even switch the sac side for varying riders?

Everything I want in a boat = Yamaha, minus the ease of surfing. It's just not there yet.... is it?

What to do, what to do...

 

[Tyguy]

If surfing is your priority, then there really is no substitute for a dedicated wake/surf boat. You can modify sport boats like Yamaha to create a wave, but it's inconvenient and the results vary. A dedicate surf boat will create the ideal wake with a simple touch of the screen, and many will continually re-ballast the boat based on changing conditions even while moving. Yamaha is amazing for what the brand offers, but providing the best surf experience isn't part of that set of advantages. Now go out and have fun shopping....and don't forget to check out Moomba for bang-for-the-buck.

 

[tkeru408]

I agree, if surfing is your priority then get a surf boat. One of the things that makes Yamahas so great is the swim deck/transom area, but some of the surf boat manufacturers have done amazing things with their transom areas in recent years.

 

[Epsmith19]

Do surf boats exist below $100K?

 

[vxooxv]

If surfing is your priority, then there really is no substitute for a dedicated wake/surf boat. You can modify sport boats like Yamaha to create a wave, but it's inconvenient and the results vary. A dedicate surf boat will create the ideal wake with a simple touch of the screen, and many will continually re-ballast the boat based on changing conditions even while moving. Yamaha is amazing for what the brand offers, but providing the best surf experience isn't part of that set of advantages. Now go out and have fun shopping....and don't forget to check out Moomba for bang-for-the-buck.

This is kind of where I'm heading. Fortunately or Unfortunately I started off and am mostly behind a malibu. Out of all the other surf boats I've been behind none create the same wave, though I'm not sure all have been 'dialed in'. Never been behind a Moomba... for the same new Yamaha money I could probably get an Axis or Moomba. For double the Yamaha money, i'm looking at the Malibu or Centurion. Tab or Gate debate, but I admit i'm still new to the sport.

 

[haknslash]

Sounds like you know the answer. Go for the surf boat.

 

[gallobg]

I agree with everyone else - if surfing is your priority, then get a dedicated surf boat. There are 3 main reasons as I see it: (1) the actual surf wave you will generate is simply no comparison, especially if you need to switch surf sides for different riders; (2) manually filling ballast bags is a chore and takes time, every Yamaha with internal ballast still needs transom bags; and (3) dedicated surf boats have full passenger capacity for all your family and friends with full ballast, but with Yamaha the transom bags, etc. count against your weight capacity limit so you can't have as many people on board.

I really like my Yamaha for a lot of reasons, and even enjoy the bit of surfing I get to do with it, but my next boat will be a dedicated surf boat.

 

[tkeru408]

Do surf boats exist below $100K?

I've started looking at surf boats just a little as we may be headed that way in a few years as my kids get older. It seems you used to be able to find surf boats for <$100K, but it's borderline at this point with Covid price creep. Some models from the 'entry-level' brands such as Moomba, Axis, Supreme, etc. can still be had for <$100K but lots of them have creeped over $100K while the 'big-brother' brands from the same manufacturers have creeped over $200K.

 

[Epsmith19]

This is kind of where I'm heading. Fortunately or Unfortunately I started off and am mostly behind a malibu. Out of all the other surf boats I've been behind none create the same wave, though I'm not sure all have been 'dialed in'. Never been behind a Moomba... for the same new Yamaha money I could probably get an Axis or Moomba. For double the Yamaha money, i'm looking at the Malibu or Centurion. Tab or Gate debate, but I admit i'm still new to the sport.

Are you comparing the Axis or Moomba to the wake series Yamahas? I

I've started looking at surf boats just a little as we may be headed that way in a few years as my kids get older. It seems you used to be able to find surf boats for <$100K, but it's borderline at this point with Covid price creep. Some models from the 'entry-level' brands such as Moomba, Axis, Supreme, etc. can still be had for <$100K but lots of them have creeped over $100K while the 'big-brother' brands from the same manufacturers have creeped over $200K.

Yeah thats what I have found. They look like fun boats but I don't think they compare to Yamaha from a price stand point unless you compare the top Yamaha to a smaller and cheapest Axis/Moomba. The surf boat may still win out as the best choice but its going to coast more

 

[tkeru408]

Are you comparing the Axis or Moomba to the wake series Yamahas? I



Yeah thats what I have found. They look like fun boats but I don't think they compare to Yamaha from a price stand point unless you compare the top Yamaha to a smaller and cheapest Axis/Moomba. The surf boat may still win out as the best choice but its going to coast more

Agreed, even the entry-level dedicated surf boats will cost more than a comparably sized Yamaha, but it's probably worth it if what you want to do is surf. Example: 255XD price is now $101.5K. A Moomba Makai (24.5ft long like the 255XD) has a starting price of $100K but by the time you option it up it's $110-$120K.

 

[ripler]

I had the same dilemma and ended up with a V-drive and yes you can buy one for under 100K, there are plenty of options. Go check out the MasterCraft NXT line, solid boat without all the fancy electronics. You can negotiate prices on a wake boat, I got 30% off of my MasterCraft, didn't pay freight or dealer prep. And don't believe the BS about maintenance, I changed my oil on 20 minutes 2 weeks ago.

 

[adrianp89]

Wake boat sounds like the answer. Just get ready for some abuse. Most boaters and people with property on the water hate wake boats with a passion (for valid reasons).

 

[gmac03]

Check out Heyday for a nice intro wake surf boat

 

[tkeru408]

I had the same dilemma and ended up with a V-drive and yes you can buy one for under 100K, there are plenty of options. Go check out the MasterCraft NXT line, solid boat without all the fancy electronics. You can negotiate prices on a wake boat, I got 30% off of my MasterCraft, didn't pay freight or dealer prep. And don't believe the BS about maintenance, I changed my oil on 20 minutes 2 weeks ago.

Question for you: did you get the 30% off during Covid craziness or before? I assume you're talking about during but just wanted to check? A couple of the surf boats I've come across (Mastercraft XT24, Centurion Ri230, etc.) would be much more palatable at $125-$130K than they are at $180K+. Thanks!

 

[ripler]

I bought in September of last year. Mastercraft has a 24' in the NXT series if you want bigger.

 

[tkeru408]

Thanks! I'll keep that 30% number in mind, definitely makes their costs more doable if we go that route. For now, we're very happy with our 252SE but may look to a wake boat in a few years when the kids are older. Will definitely check out the NXT24, and the new XT24 has me intrigued as it fills that space between the NXT24 and the X24.

 

[HangOutdoors]

Thanks! I'll keep that 30% number in mind, definitely makes their costs more doable if we go that route. For now, we're very happy with our 252SE but may look to a wake boat in a few years when the kids are older. Will definitely check out the NXT24, and the new XT24 has me intrigued as it fills that space between the NXT24 and the X24.

a couple few years from now, Yamaha may improve their wake makers substantially as well. They are in the game and I would assume they want to stay in the game where people want a very decent wave. Will be interesting see if they evolve.

 

[vxooxv]

Check out Heyday for a nice intro wake surf boat

Bayliner Surf Boat with Hot Tub seats! lol I think it still requires the suction cup shaper for optimal wave eh? I've yet to see one of these on the lake but at 65k with an upgraded motor and most of the bells along with a 8yr warranty, it's indeed a great entry point.

 

[Mesa50]

A contractor who was at my house has a 22’ Moomba Craz. He said with all ballast full, and 4 on board, he still needs 500 lbs of lead to get enough push. If I was guessing, I’d say he was about 170lbs. Unless you are buying a $150,000 surf boat, it may still need some heavy stuff in places you don’t want it, so maybe Yamaha is still a better deal. I’d be ticked if I spent another 20-50 grand, and still needed ugly ballast all over the boat.

 

[haknslash]

A contractor who was at my house has a 22’ Moomba Craz. He said with all ballast full, and 4 on board, he still needs 500 lbs of lead to get enough push. If I was guessing, I’d say he was about 170lbs. Unless you are buying a $150,000 surf boat, it may still need some heavy stuff in places you don’t want it, so maybe Yamaha is still a better deal. I’d be ticked if I spent another 20-50 grand, and still needed ugly ballast all over the boat.

You don’t add bags all over the place but rather simply upgrade the stock bags to larger ones. I have over 5k lbs of ballast and none of it is visible in the cockpit. In 2019 it came stock with 3k lbs but thankfully it comes with a proper 4k lbs now, as it should. The value brand wake bots don’t tend to weigh as much as their mid to higher end boats. For instance a Moomba does not weight as much as a Supra therefore requires more weight to displace the same amount as a heavier boat. Your friend at 170 lbs shouldn’t have any issue stock wave or not to be honest. My guess is it’s technique and/or board that is holding him back because even my fat butt at 230 lbs could get some push on the stock wave with just my wife and daughter in the boat. I had a hard time going ropeless until I learned body position plays such a huge role it held me back for what felt like eternity. That being said for that era Craz and 4 people in a wake boat is nothing and not going to make a huge wave compared to more weight (larger than stock bags), added lead or more people. As they say no replacement for displacement. 500 lbs of lead he added is just 10 small bags that you can stuff and hide anywhere in the compartments so it’s not like it is in the way at all.

Below is my stock 3,000 lb wave versus around 4,500 lb wave with upgraded Wakemakers bags. Granted I could make the stock wave nicer looking now that I know the boat and surf system much better these days compared to back then, but you can see the difference is huge with just upgrading bags to a respectable amount of ballast...



Then I wanted to fine tune things further and added lead to get more weight in the boat completely hidden and out of the way to get an even larger and more powerful wave by dialing in my pitch and roll values. It takes some time to learn these boats and setup the wave. Some boats surf systems are easier than others but usually at the loss of the ability to completely change the wave’s shape and features. My wave rocks IMO for an (at the time) sub $80k boat!