Drove a lightning yesterday...

[anmut]

There sure seems to be a lot of angst in this thread over EV’s. I’m not quite sure why, as its not like someone has to buy an EV.

Actually, that is the angst. As someone previously pointed out, EV's are now MANDATORY in 14 states in the coming years. And that's just the beginning.

 

[anmut]

Is this because you home has the older 100A service?

My home, only 18 months old, has 200A service. LOL, still need a new sub-panel as there is NO empty spots in the existing panel to wire a mini-split in our insulated storage room or a nice heater in my garage.

Jim

I recently went through this process at my home, built in the 1970's. I wanted to add 240v to my garage for a welder. Electrician said "Sorry, you'll need new service to your house, new panel, and with the new code, we'll have to move your panel location as well." 15k to add one outlet.

This opened my eyes quite a bit... my guess is that in my neighborhood, only 5% of the house have the correct service coming. Nearly every house in within the city limits was built in the 50's and 60's, so it'll be even worse for those residences.

 

[anmut]

Level 2 charger is plenty to charge overnight. On Tesla it adds 30-35 miles of range an hour.
110 outlet is about 3-4 miles of range an hour.

* in good weather

It'll be fun to watch all the central Wisconsin EV freaks, living in their cute 1940's homes with no garage, find out that for three months of the year, their level two charger costs the same but is much less efficient when it's 0f outside.

 

[zpaul]

* in good weather

It'll be fun to watch all the central Wisconsin EV freaks, living in their cute 1940's homes with no garage, find out that for three months of the year, their level two charger costs the same but is much less efficient when it's 0f outside.

True. 40-50 degree weather drops milage by 30%. If it rains or snows even more.
Going 70-75 drops another 30%.

 

[zpaul]

the push to also eliminate gas appliances in homes will be part of this discussion. houses will need 400a service to accommodate all this - vehicle charger, elec tankless wh, elec furnace/heat pump, elect range, pool/spa pump motors, etc....will be lots of demand

And the grid is not ready for that. Look at California, leading EV adoption. Electric cars are good but do not use AC or charge your car during the day!
They retire coal plants. Nukes are getting close to their lifespan and no one is building new ones because it is too expensive.
And all these bogus Solar panels and windmills are not reliable source of energy.

 

[Ohio]

Recent story on EV sales slumping

 

[BlkGS]

Good points. Also, I would like someone to tell me how... anyone can generate ANYTHING with zero carbon. Energy isn't created, it's only transferred.

This one is actually quite easy. Photosynthesis. Plants use energy from the sun to knock the carbon atoms off CO2 for their own use. If we really wanted to save the planet, we would be heavy into biodiesel, as you can make it with algae that eats something like 100x it's carbon emissions from the fuel while making it. It's not super efficient space wise, but you know, neither is solar energy.

 

[BlkGS]

Recent story on EV sales slumping

Interesting video. I think the real key is up at the beginning, 50% of people think EVs are the future, 30% of dealers do.

If you unpack that, it means that roughly half of people think that. This includes a LARGE number of people not in the new car market, that haven't looked at EVs, etc. That's the "talking out of my ass" people with no skin in the game.

30% of dealers think it's the future. That means 2/3 people that are actually selling cars and in the industry don't believe it. 1/3 is a number that's pretty easy to get to when you consider the West Coast and their high gas prices and mandates, luxury buyers that are more accepting of it, etc.

I think the smart move now is for these companies to pivot to smaller batteries and PHEVs. I know some people think they should be more expensive than a BEV due to complexity, but usually they are not, and they're the best way to get people electrified.

The level of stupid at Ford to not put a freaking plug on the Powerboost f150 is literally insane. If it qualifies for any govt subsidies as a PHEV, They'd be rolling in the money, because it's honestly a great package. Could it be made better? Sure. Couple it with the coyote, add a larger battery, make the electric motor more powerful. But it's a great package overall right now, and with a plug it'd be a true class dominant vehicle.

 

[jocolo21]

i havent driven one, but my bud bought one, and i asked about it he said dont buy and went on and on about troubles with the slow charging not being able to go far etc

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

I don’t know if dealerships are any smarter that people overall and I take the 30% of dealers think EV’s are the future with a grain of salt. It’s probably true that most dealerships would rather sell/service ICE vehicles than EVs. Many dealerships make a lot of their money from parts and service, and ICE vehicles are a lot more complex and require more service than an EV. Then of course, there is that whole direct to consumer model that Tesla has that cuts out the dealership.

Regarding consumers, my guess is that when there are more, cheaper, EV’s in the marketplace, this will drive more folks into wanting an EV (I know this is true for me). Two important factors in buying a new car for many folks is what is the total price? and what is the monthly payment.

Jim

 

[HangOutdoors]

Two important factors in buying a new car for many folks is what is the total price? and what is the monthly payment.

It is a lot more than that. Will it get you to where you need it to? What is space required? Does it do everything you need it to do in the current situation? What is long term maintenance and monthly usage cost?

TBH most people don't give a rats ass about the Total Price...... It comes down to Use Case, Payment, Monthly Cost, Insurance Cost, Maintenance Cost, Safety, Warranty. That is why leasing can be very attractive. The total price doesn't mean much, it is the spread between Sales Price and Residual Value, which creates the payment.

 

[zpaul]

I don’t know if dealerships are any smarter that people overall and I take the 30% of dealers think EV’s are the future with a grain of salt. It’s probably true that most dealerships would rather sell/service ICE vehicles than EVs. Many dealerships make a lot of their money from parts and service, and ICE vehicles are a lot more complex and require more service than an EV. Then of course, there is that whole direct to consumer model that Tesla has that cuts out the dealership.

Regarding consumers, my guess is that when there are more, cheaper, EV’s in the marketplace, this will drive more folks into wanting an EV (I know this is true for me). Two important factors in buying a new car for many folks is what is the total price? and what is the monthly payment.

Jim

Another reason people will buy Teslas - just because of buying experience. No Dealer's BS and upsell for 4 hours.
Fill all docs online - show up at Tesla showroom and off the lot in 15 minutes.
Just got the F150 truck and finance guy was pressing me on add ons for like an hour. Looks like different options were adding between $10-80 which is not that much a month, but it was adding $3-10K to the truck of stuff no one needs. Like lifetime oil change and tire rotation for $1,600 upfront.
He was eventually throwing his signing pen to me because I didn't buy a thing from him.

 

[Sam Singh]

I put 21000 miles on my 2022 F150 Lighting with extended battery. At normal this is giving me around 320 miles and at full charge i pulled 2013 Yamaha 242 limited s with full charge gave me 165 miles with 20% battery left. At home charger it cost me $28 to go from 20% to 80% charge. while pulling boat I always keep looking back to make sure it is still there because you will never feel you pulling load behind very easy to tow and launch the boat you can turn this to one pedal drive, and it locks itself while on ramp no need to push manual brake.

 

[zpaul]

It is a lot more than that. Will it get you to where you need it to? What is space required? Does it do everything you need it to do in the current situation? What is long term maintenance and monthly usage cost?

TBH most people don't give a rats ass about the Total Price...... It comes down to Use Case, Payment, Monthly Cost, Insurance Cost, Maintenance Cost, Safety, Warranty. That is why leasing can be very attractive. The total price doesn't mean much, it is the spread between Sales Price and Residual Value, which creates the payment.

Not me man.
Total price. Trade in value. Financing rate and then we will figure out if I need to drop more cash to lower the monthly payment.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

If we are going to talk about generalities, then we need to check our our own biases. And let’s keep it real, many folks here have more disposable income than do most Americans. Not a bad thing, but it lends to our own biases. Leasing of cars is done to less than 20% of new car sales. So, while price it irrelevant for some, for most buyers it is still important. I do agree that the number one factor in buying a car, for most buyers, is can I afford it (and for many folks, they are thinking monthly loan and monthly insurance). Price, also has a great affect on monthly payment when length of loan is kept constant.

Jim

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Not me man.
Total price. Trade in value. Financing rate and then we will figure out if I need to drop more cash to lower the monthly payment.

Me, too.

Helped my daughter buy her new Jeep Renegade last year after her car was totaled in a hit and run. When inventory was still low, my local dealer had a pre-ordered Renegade sitting on the lot for sale as the previous customer bailed. Daughter test drove the Jeep and liked it. We began with we want to buy the Jeep, today, if we can setting on a price. Salesman is like, what monthly payment do you want. Us, don’t care about monthly price, care about OTD + taxes.

Jim

 

[HangOutdoors]

Me, too.

Helped my daughter buy her new Jeep Renegade last year after her car was totaled in a hit and run. When inventory was still low, my local dealer had a pre-ordered Renegade sitting on the lot for sale as the previous customer bailed. Daughter test drove the Jeep and liked it. We began with we want to buy the Jeep, today, if we can setting on a price. Salesman is like, what monthly payment do you want. Us, don’t care about monthly price, care about OTD + taxes.

Jim

Not me man.
Total price. Trade in value. Financing rate and then we will figure out if I need to drop more cash to lower the monthly payment.

Generally a good chunk of the population could care less. that is why a lot live outside their means. As Jim eluded to, we generally have more disposable income. It is also why GM went bankrupt because of their cheap leases with ridiculously inflated residual values. Sooner or later everything needed to get squared away. Wait till housing continues to correct itself and these 500k-800k homes around here that no one could really afford unless it was at 2% lose value and taxes keep going up and there will no way to bail out of them if they are upside down. Tick, Tock, I am just watching it all unfold.

 

[HangOutdoors]

Me, too.

Helped my daughter buy her new Jeep Renegade last year after her car was totaled in a hit and run. When inventory was still low, my local dealer had a pre-ordered Renegade sitting on the lot for sale as the previous customer bailed. Daughter test drove the Jeep and liked it. We began with we want to buy the Jeep, today, if we can setting on a price. Salesman is like, what monthly payment do you want. Us, don’t care about monthly price, care about OTD + taxes.

Jim

And the reason they go into that mode, is because it works the majority of time. I know many car salesman and they sell monthly price and people gobble that shit up.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

And the reason they go into that mode, is because it works the majority of time. I know many car salesman and they sell monthly price and people gobble that shit up.

Personal finance should be required course in order to graduate high school. One of the things I taught my daughter is if you are going to finance something like a car or a home, ALWAYS make sure that you owe less that the item is worth. Never be upside down on a loan. Choose wisely what you buy and always bring some money to the table. This way if things change, you can always sell and buy something else. One of the most shocking things to me is people who are underwater on a car loan going to a dealer buying a new car and having the new loan incorporate the debt still owed on the first loan.

Jim

 

[BlkGS]

Personal finance should be required course in order to graduate high school. One of the things I taught my daughter is if you are going to finance something like a car or a home, ALWAYS make sure that you owe less that the item is worth. Never be upside down on a loan. Choose wisely what you buy and always bring some money to the table. This way if things change, you can always sell and buy something else. One of the most shocking things to me is people who are underwater on a car loan going to a dealer buying a new car and having the new loan incorporate the debt still owed on the first loan.

Jim

Nah man, be upside down and just get gap insurance. Roll that negative equity over, it's fine!

People have no idea how money works. That's why they don't care what the US government pays in interest on it's debt.