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front wheel drive nissan sl 2018 pulling 3000 pontoon out of water

Messages
2
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0
Points
10
Boat Make
Other
Year
2011
Boat Model
Other
Boat Length
21
I am thinking to buy 2018 nissan sl pathfinder concerns that it is front wheel drive should this cause problems gettin out of ramps?
 
Pulling a 3000 lb potoon with the sl nissan pathfinder?
 
What’s its towing capacity? I used to have an Acura MDX and used it to pull a 19ft Chaparral. Did ok for the most part.
 
I would worry about towing capacity and everything else long before I would worry about the front wheel drive part.

Trucks should be 4WD because normally they are rear wheel drive. If the rear wheel gets to that slippery part of the ramp, it just spins (and people have taken their foot off the brake to hit the gas, so the truck can slide backward into the water). Thus, the need for the front wheels to be able to pull--they are up away from the algae-covered slippery part. A front wheel drive vehicle should not have that issue at all.

Unless you are towing from the front bumper... :)
 
I am thinking to buy 2018 nissan sl pathfinder concerns that it is front wheel drive should this cause problems gettin out of ramps?
I would be concerned. Helper springs , to help keep the front down maybe.
 
I towed my AR190 with my wifes 2010 FWD Traverse. It was rated at 5,200lbs.

When the Variable Valve Timing was working, it had acceptable power, decent chassis, and was quite comfortable to drive. It had issues staying cool, even with the tow package (Which included larger trans cooler, larger radiator, and a few other items). Seeing 230+ coolant temps when climbing hills in the summer. With 4 adults and 3 kids, all our water gear, and a couple coolers in the boat. It was all that vehicle wanted, and was noticeably struggling. Just a lot of weight for a "midsized" (I use midsize loosely, because it was dimensionally larger than the '03 Yukon we traded for it) crossover. Once the VVT started having issues (timing chain problem), the engine didn't have the power to keep up with the load and we stopped using it as a tow vehicle.

As the FWD traction issue.......It was a problem. The ramp at Patoka Lake in IN is a nice grooved concrete ramp that stays "fairly" dry on most days. It was sketchy if I was behind someone else on a crowded day. Just the water draining off the last guys trailer was enough to disturb the delicate balance of traction on that vehicle. I wouldn't even attempt it at some of the other ramps that I new were less ideal. That vehicle had MAJOR traction issues in the rain to begin with, and the tongue weight unloading the front wheels made it worse.

Having been a participant in a truck/trailer/boat combination being sunk at a ramp in the past. It's AWD/4WD only for me. Just not worth the risk IMO. Consider the "what would I do if" scenario? You start to lose traction, whats your exist strategy? Rely on another boater to be a good samaritan and help? Take a second vehicle to pull the first one out? Call a tow vehicle and wait? If you really think about it, it's a VERY precarious situation we put ourselves in when launching/retrieving a boat, and not having proper equipment can have very poor results.

WITH ALL OF THAT SAID.......I watched my uncle pull his 22' tri-toon with a Chevy Venture minivan for about 4 years in the late 90's/early '00's. He never sunk it, never got stuck, and by all measurements consistently overloaded the crap out of that thing. It served him just fine, and it got him and the family on the water. I don't recommend it even a little bit, and even he has commented a number of times how ridiculous that was.
 
I use a fwd Honda pilot to haul my 06 ar230 no issues on the road or at the ramp.20190817_110823.jpg
 
I would really wory about traction on a wet ramp. If you went all-wheel drive I think you would be fine.
 
I wouldn't, those have CVTs that are not the most robust things out there. Step up to an armada IMO.
 
I have a 2018 Nissan Pathfinder with front wheel drive and tow a 3k AR210 with it. I would not recommend if you tow frequently up steep slippery ramps. It does fine pulling normally but last year I got myself into a pickle with an uphill rock road. Was stuck for about an hour and had to get out an push. To be fair I shouldn't have gone down the road in the first place. It was pretty washed out. I was about 2 mins from calling a tow truck before getting unstuck.

Under normal conditions it has done fine. I tow twice a year so it has not been a big deal. My ramp is nice but is pretty steep and the pathfinder does fine on it the few times a year I use it.
 
I suppose it depends on the ramp angle, if it’s wet, slimy, if the ramp has a drop off. Me, I wouldn’t put my boat and vehicle on a ramp to only rely on FWD to pull me out of things get slippery. But others have said they’ve had no issues. The CVT would worry me more than the FWD.
 
The CVT would worry me more than the FWD.

Had no idea that was a CVT in the Pathfinder. The CVT would be an absolute deal killer for me. They're a really neat concept for low torque applications. Dragging a floating platform out of the water uphill is NOT the ideal situation for that transmission.
 
Had no idea that was a CVT in the Pathfinder. The CVT would be an absolute deal killer for me. They're a really neat concept for low torque applications. Dragging a floating platform out of the water uphill is NOT the ideal situation for that transmission.

If you have to use a CVT for those applications there's a "low" option.
 
If you have to use a CVT for those applications there's a "low" option.
Unless you are referring to some sort of outside torque multiplier (like the low range on a 4wd transfer case) it doesn't get around the inherent design issues of torque transfer within a CVT.

Nissan in particular uses a "belt style" CVT. This is essentially a non toothed belt that is set between two variable diameter pulleys. It's clever, compact, and will transfer "some" torque. They have gotten around this low torque threshold in newer transmission by increasing the tension between the pulleys, and adding a traditional lockup torque converter to the front of the transmission. This allows the output to fully stop without the belt actually slipping. This reduces heat, but way of reduced friction. It's important to note that belt slippage only occurs during initial startup from a standing stop. That is the EXACT point at which most heat is generated, and most wear is placed on the belt. It is also the point when the torque differential between input and output is the highest. Also, when you'll be pulling a boat from a lake.

My suspicion is that the "low" your referring to simply keeps the pulley diameters in a higher numeric configuration, and helps reduce the torque differential between input and output as much as possible. It doesn't add any additional gear reduction behind the transmission, which would reduce the torque differential that is doing the damage. It most likely also maintains that favorable pulley config longer in the rev range, so as to aid in pulling. The inherent belt slippage without a torque converter will still be present, and overheating is a VERY real concern with prolonged usage (like dragging a pontoon up a ramp, out of the water, and then climbing up the next few hills to get back home.

Even on my traditional clutched planetary with torque converter automatic transmission, I can see 50+deg increases in fluid temp between boat launch and "the top of the hill" when climbing out of my local launch ramp. I have a large cooler with auxiliary fan, so temps never exceed acceptable levels. This transmission configuration also has no direct wear parts being affected during this use case, so fluid temp is the only real concern until clutch slippage occurs. The CVT doesn't have the benefits of that at any level. The belt WILL slip under extremely heavy torque loads. The questions really become "Can you keep the heat out of it?", and "How much torque transfer headroom do you have?".

This is a newer model that was tested under SAE J2807, at least as best I can tell. If the OP can confirm that Nissan used that method to test the Pathfinders tow rating, then the CVT issue somewhat goes away. If the tow rating was determined by the marketing department, then that's an issue. My wife drives a Nissan Rogue daily. I can tell you I won't be putting any more load on that CVT than I have to, and it certainly won't be called into any amount of towing duty. Perhaps the Pathfinder has a more robust CVT in it, and it's not an issue, HOWEVER, if you're buying something new, then I would discount the CVT myself and find another vehicle you liked that has a traditional clutched planetary gearset. Bonus points if you find anything with a ZF transmission in it. Those are know to be high quality, very capable transmissions.
 
Unless you are referring to some sort of outside torque multiplier (like the low range on a 4wd transfer case) it doesn't get around the inherent design issues of torque transfer within a CVT.

Nissan in particular uses a "belt style" CVT. This is essentially a non toothed belt that is set between two variable diameter pulleys. It's clever, compact, and will transfer "some" torque. They have gotten around this low torque threshold in newer transmission by increasing the tension between the pulleys, and adding a traditional lockup torque converter to the front of the transmission. This allows the output to fully stop without the belt actually slipping. This reduces heat, but way of reduced friction. It's important to note that belt slippage only occurs during initial startup from a standing stop. That is the EXACT point at which most heat is generated, and most wear is placed on the belt. It is also the point when the torque differential between input and output is the highest. Also, when you'll be pulling a boat from a lake.

My suspicion is that the "low" your referring to simply keeps the pulley diameters in a higher numeric configuration, and helps reduce the torque differential between input and output as much as possible. It doesn't add any additional gear reduction behind the transmission, which would reduce the torque differential that is doing the damage. It most likely also maintains that favorable pulley config longer in the rev range, so as to aid in pulling. The inherent belt slippage without a torque converter will still be present, and overheating is a VERY real concern with prolonged usage (like dragging a pontoon up a ramp, out of the water, and then climbing up the next few hills to get back home.

Even on my traditional clutched planetary with torque converter automatic transmission, I can see 50+deg increases in fluid temp between boat launch and "the top of the hill" when climbing out of my local launch ramp. I have a large cooler with auxiliary fan, so temps never exceed acceptable levels. This transmission configuration also has no direct wear parts being affected during this use case, so fluid temp is the only real concern until clutch slippage occurs. The CVT doesn't have the benefits of that at any level. The belt WILL slip under extremely heavy torque loads. The questions really become "Can you keep the heat out of it?", and "How much torque transfer headroom do you have?".

This is a newer model that was tested under SAE J2807, at least as best I can tell. If the OP can confirm that Nissan used that method to test the Pathfinders tow rating, then the CVT issue somewhat goes away. If the tow rating was determined by the marketing department, then that's an issue. My wife drives a Nissan Rogue daily. I can tell you I won't be putting any more load on that CVT than I have to, and it certainly won't be called into any amount of towing duty. Perhaps the Pathfinder has a more robust CVT in it, and it's not an issue, HOWEVER, if you're buying something new, then I would discount the CVT myself and find another vehicle you liked that has a traditional clutched planetary gearset. Bonus points if you find anything with a ZF transmission in it. Those are know to be high quality, very capable transmissions.

Correct, much like my old Polaris wheeler with the cvt transmission, the "low" just prevents the belt from moving further, allowing for higher revs in that range. When I first had that machine I was pulling a truck out of the mud in "high" gear and smoked the belt. Since then I would use "Low" when hauling heavy loads to prevent the belt from slipping/burning up. Worked great in that format and I pulled some heavy stuff (vehicles in mud / 8' 24" round wood pieces / full trailers) - however not sure how it works in an automobile.

I wouldn't recommend a vehicle with CVT for towing under any circumstances, mainly due to not having that control to drop down into a lower gear, but in the OP's case, it might be his only option.
 
I wouldn't recommend a vehicle with CVT for towing under any circumstances, mainly due to not having that control to drop down into a lower gear, but in the OP's case, it might be his only option.

Agreed.......100%

If it was already owned, and paid off, and we're talking about doing it once or twice a year.....Most likely not a huge deal. If you're doing it once a day for 3 weekends a month, for 7months a year, that's a bit much.

I tend to assume the other direction, as my personal towing is ~60mi one way, and we do that 5-7 times a month for 6 months a year. That's far too much stress to put on a CVT IMO, and I would look elsewhere if I was purchasing a new vehicle with towing in mind.
 
I towed our SX190 with a FWD Nissan Quest for a few months. Did fine 99% of the time, but I did have two "holy sh*t" moments on a wet ramp where I had to have my wife and one kid sit way up front with me to get enough traction to get out. This was after a rain, normally the front tires would be on dry surface.

There are a lot of variables that could cause problems getting out of a ramp: tire condition, temperature, weather, tire pressure, ramp condition/angle, additional boat weight (gas, people, stuff). If you go FWD just be sure you're always on top of the parts you have control over.
 
I towed our SX190 with a FWD Nissan Quest for a few months. Did fine 99% of the time, but I did have two "holy sh*t" moments on a wet ramp where I had to have my wife and one kid sit way up front with me to get enough traction to get out. This was after a rain, normally the front tires would be on dry surface.

There are a lot of variables that could cause problems getting out of a ramp: tire condition, temperature, weather, tire pressure, ramp condition/angle, additional boat weight (gas, people, stuff). If you go FWD just be sure you're always on top of the parts you have control over.

That's really true - even a dually 4x4 could slide if that all important traction isn't available.
 
That's really true - even a dually 4x4 could slide if that all important traction isn't available.

You're right, my comment really should have been "always stay on top of the parts you can control--regardless of FWD/RWD/AWD" :)
 
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