3 days with a Tesla Model 3 from an admitted critic.

[2kwik4u]

So, I've been a HUGE critic of Tesla vehicles for some time. Like, a big critic. They aren't worth the premium, they're more of a tech company than a car company. All kinds of things like that. SO, I had to take a work trip this week to Tuscon, AZ. Renting an EV was less cost than the "midsize". I signed up for a Polestar 2, but was quickly told those weren't available despite being on the website, so I opted for a Tesla Model 3 instead. I was initially less than please with that option (I really wanted to try the Polestar), but thought it would be a good time to really evaluate my criticisms, since I would have the car for 3 days, and was planning a shade over 500mi of driving with it.

Below is my review of the car in both general and specific terms. I acknowledge that SOME of my complaints are because it's a rental, and it doesn't have some of the integration features like phone as a key, and things like that. I'll put a TL;DR at the bottom as well for those that don't want to read the wall of text below.

First impressions were horrible. Like really bad. It took a solid 30min for me to get out of the parking lot. Mostly because of missing "common" interfaces with a car. No key fob to unlock the doors is a good starter. You have to know to swipe the card against the B-Pillar to get into the thing. I didn't know that, and had to go get help. Luckily another Tesla renter with experience was nearby and they showed me. OK, no I'm in the car, HTF do I get the A/C working? Tucson is HOT, and so was I. Well, the screen animated me a little show of where to put the keycard, again, not really intuitive here, but once you know, it's easy. NOW, I'm presented with the giant screen and have to get the settings right to cool off. I get my vents on and work (more on this later), and started cooling. Great. Now, HTF do I adjust the steering wheel. That took a few minutes of clicking and prodding to find the settings. Now, how do I unfold the mirrors? OK found those settings too. Great.......and keep going on and on for 30 min to get the car basically adjusted to a new driver. Sure, the next time I do this, it'll be easy, but WOW there are SOOOO many things that are NOT the same as any other rental car I've ever had.

Once I was moving and driving it's not bad. I got used to the size/shape of the car pretty quick. Thing had 160-ish miles of range when I picked it up, and that was enough to get me to the hotel and dinner. I would have to charge in the morning before setting out 75mi south with no chargers between departure and return. i was able to find a supercharger nearby using the internal navigation. It appeared on the way to my destination, so I set out to find it, and was pleasantly surprised to see it mostly empty. Charging was far less complex than I anticipated. I plugged it in, it charged, someone got charged $15.72, and at 95% full, I unplugged and drove away. I made that trip for 2 days straight, both days with a quick stop for electrons on my way out to the jobsite, and back. After site work yesterday I hit a different supercharger as I was going to drive to the top of Mt Lemmon to check out the sites before heading home this morning. Charged to 100% this time, as the internal navigation was (what I thought) pretty confused.

SO, the internal navigation is OK.......not great, just OK. If you know the exact address, it's great. If you don't, well good luck googling it first, then typing it in. Even then I had two times in three days where it didn't know the address. I had to try to find something nearby on the screen and just drive there, then figure it out. One was a factory that has been there since the mid '90s. The other was the ski resort on the top of My Lemmon. Likewise, as I was setting up the route to Mt Lemmon, it thought I would get there from 90% to 30%, then back home on the same 30%. I didn't believe it, so I charged to 100 and took my chances. It did fine. climbed to 9k ft elevation using a shade over 50% of the battery, then came back down and GAINED 5% in the 6.5k ft descent. So it's estimates were pretty close on target, despite not being directly intuitive. Also, it wouldn't show me how long to charge to make that trip, so I had to guess on that 100%.

Overall.......It's a fine conveyance. It works as a car acceptably. I remain firm on my premise that it's a crap vehicle for $50k. Acceleration was great even for being a base model, and I was really surprised at how smooth the driveline was in general. No real "jerking" or weird sensations during throttle transitions. It's SIGNIFICANTLY over sprung and damped for a daily driver. My kidneys hated me driving around town. Canyon carving up/down Mt Lemmon was like nothing I've experienced. Above about 7/10 effort it was well balanced, very neutral, tons of power, instant throttle response, and plenty of brakes. Probably the flatest cornering car I've ever driven. Quality control was atrocious with panel gaps on interior and exterior. The road noise felt deafening at times, and the interior generally felt cheap despite the obvious attempt to be upscale. The ergonomics were bad, with that center screen being an absurd distraction, even after I got used to it. It's missing some super easy features (cooled seats, and HUD are most glaring). There's a lot of "different" ways of doing things that are changes for the sake of change (stupid key, and no "start" or "power" button)......I've honestly never hated and loved a car at the same time like this. The powertrain is absurdly good. The package it's wrapped up in, is, well, really not great.

So I'll go segment by segment here:

Exterior:
It's not a bad looking car. Has a few quirky lines, but overall it's not bad. I'm not a fan of the dark red color, but that's no big deal, it's a rental. The panels were poorly fit, with the trunk making a weird creak every time it opened. This example only had 5k-ish miles on it and it was already breaking. The drivers door handle was poorly fit as well and would wobble in my hand each time I pulled it.

Interior:
Styling is subjective, but cheap plastic feel is not. The steering wheel and center console have a nice leather feel to them. The dash is plastic and it shows. Even the fake woodgrain looks, well, fake. The console is cavernous, and nice to have. The phone holder with wireless charging is awesome. Cupholders were OK, and generally fit everything I had with me. I'm 6'2" tall and the armrest on the drivers side of the seat was non-existent. it didn't go back far enough to rest my elbow on. Steering wheel was OK, but felt a little small, and only did 3 turns lock to lock (which felt weird). I really disliked the little round rolly button adjuster things. they're neat, but they don't work well for my giant fingers. Side movements required a lot of pressure to keep my finger from sliding off. The seat were OK, but not great. They were a little small for my legs, and they had too much lumbar, even after adjusting all the way down. Holy crap they were hot as well. I'm sure some of that is AZ heat on black leather, but ugh they were bad.

Controls:
That giant screen. WOW. it looks great, and there's a lot of sizzle there. In practice, it sucks. Adjusting the vents is horrendously terrible. I couldn't find a position with the vents that didn't blow in my face. Also, why in the love of dammit, did they NOT turn on ALL the vents. I ahd to go in and turn on the passenger and rear vents EVERY SINGLE TIME I got in the car. Dude, it's a 110deg in the shade around here. I need the whole damn car to be cool, not just the vents near me. The FSD preview was distracting and a complete NON value add. Again, it's neat to look at, but way more sizzle than steak. Bluetooth calls were easy enough, nav was easy enough, bluetooth streaming worked as expected. Typical car stuff, and they did that fine. The power utilization screen was neat to look at.

Let me turn the car on and off. I could not for the life of me figure out how to exit the car and keep the HVAC running. I stopped like 6 times on the way UP Mt Lemmon to take pictures and look over vistas. Each time I had to reconfigure the A/C when I got back in. Total PIA to deal with. Same thing with getting it to lock/unlock. Swiping the key on the B-Pillar was a PIA. A traditional fob with perimeter sensing is a proven tech that doesn't need to be reinvented. This left a sour taste in my mouth EVERY SINGLE TIME I entered or exited the car.

Chassis:
The chassis superb if you're near the limit. 7/10 or more effort and you're rewarded with a very flat cornering experience, super neutral handling, exceptional responsiveness, and great power delivery and brakes. Anything below that, and it's rubbish. it was significantly overdamped and overspring for commuter duty. Often times the chassis would "hobby horse" on he expressway, as the wheelbase was a multiple of the expansion joints. The steering was nice and taught for high speed and fast turns. Anything else and it was twitchy and easily excited. Even on the lowest settings it was too much for commuting. The turning radius is horrible, and the shifting is slow when you inevitably have to change your U-turn into a 3-point-turn. Maybe I'm spoiled with 4WS on the Q7, but WOW the turning radius felt HUGE on this car.

Charging:
I really expected this to be a giant PIA. I've read about the electrify american challenges. I've also seen Tesla people have the app setup to make it work. Well, I'm not sure what Hertz has going, but I backed in. plugged in. and received electrons. It billed someone. I'm not sure, but I used about $25 in electricity while I was there, and I didn't pay for it. Not on my bill from Hertz either. This was hands down the easiest part of the experience for me. Honestly easier than a gas pump, aside from the premise of driving 5miles to the nearest one and passing 14 gas stations on the way. This is the way it should be. I probably spent a total of 45min charging over 3 days and 3 sessions. It wasn't as fast as a fillup, but the time passed quickly each stop. I took the time to check email, text the wife, and throw some trash away. On the last one I walked 200ft to the Circle K and got a snack and a drink.

Overall impression:
I'll give the car a solid 6.5-7/10. There are some parts that I could seriously get used to. Other parts were complete garbage. The interior and that center screen are, well, terrible. So much shit on that screen to look at and be distracting, It was response with great resolution, but it's still a screen in a car that HAS to be used for everything. The proximity entry shit was a pain. I HATED getting into/out of that car. Meanwhile, the driveline was amazing. Instant torque is addicting, and the "point and shoot" driving dynamic is fun. The chassis is great if you're really getting after it, but it's harsh for a daily driver.

I'd love to discuss, as I think I moved it up a little from what I thought it was before. It's not the complete garbage I thought it was, but it's also not the pinnacle of automotive tech that some say it is either. Like all things it's largely subjective, and in the end, it's still not for me.

TL;DR

I hated Teslas, so I took an opportunity to rent one. It changed my mind enough to not hate it anymore, but still don't think they're for me any time soon.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Bummer rental companies don't offer a temporary key as phone option. The card SUCKS. The phone as key changes that experience 1000%. The vents were my biggest complaint. Never worked like I expected. The HVAC running - a lot of is done through the app. Dog mode works great to keep it running for a quick trip into a store. With the phone you can control the tempature - I once did a day trip of errands with a ice cream cake. I kept the car at 58 degrees even while running into the store.

 

[Coult45]

My two brief experiences with Teslas were very similar to your long version @2kwik4u , and I really want to love those cars...When I test drove the plaid, with a Tesla salesman in the car, and drove it on "Ludicrous" setting, it was amazing. When I tried to move one from my driveway to a neighbor's driveway when I was hiding a bunch of cars before a surprise party, I felt like a complete idiot. I've rented hundreds of cars on business travel. Adjust the seat, adjust the mirrors, set the temp, connect the phone, and go. With the Tesla, I couldn't figure out how to unlock it, how to start it, how to put it in and out of gears, how to shut it off, how to lock it....all way too hard. it was like they were equating innovate with alienate. Anyone can jump in my MachE and drive it without any lessons.

 

[2kwik4u]

@Coult45 @adrianp89

I agree here. I think that the poor parts of the user experience were most likely attributed to it being a rental and not a personal vehicle. So, I've "tried" to keep that in perspective. As a rental it was absurdly difficult compared to something like a "normal" midsize car. I had a Camry in Texas last year. The "basic" get in and drive it was fine, but it was maddening to find the settings for the lane keep assist that was VERY sensitive. So hidden buttons and features isn't just a Tesla thing, however I do think Tesla made a lot of changes here for the sake of making a change. Lots of interfaces are different without really being a value add to the operation of driving (or, honestly, the ownership experience as a renter).

I really really really liked the drivetrain. Power delivery and response is great. Efficiency is great. It's just wrapped up in a package that was overly reliant on technology to do mostly basic things, and was then either QC'd (or built in general) poorly.

 

[Murf'n'surf]

Your summary of the M3 is pretty spot on. It is a stock Honda Accord with a $22k battery and an iPad pro on the dash. You need to run a MS to be satisfied a bit more on luxury but that's a $100K car verses the $50K M3.

 

[2kwik4u]

A note on the charging puzzle. Hertz passes the charging cost straight through to my credit card. I paid for those charging stops, but there is no receipt emailed to me, or shown on my Hertz paperwork. That should be fun to work through on my expense report that requires a signature for missing receipts. Probably very convenient for most, likely gonna be a PIA for me at some point. We'll see.

 

[2kwik4u]

I love mine

Also, this post was a shade over 2yrs ago. I daily drive a Rivian now. Interesting to go back and read my thoughts from then to now.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Also, this post was a shade over 2yrs ago. I daily drive a Rivian now. Interesting to go back and read my thoughts from then to now.

So what’s next after the Rivian? I thought I loved the Model 3 until I stepped back into a hybrid. It’s the best of both worlds.

 

[2kwik4u]

So what’s next after the Rivian? I thought I loved the Model 3 until I stepped back into a hybrid. It’s the best of both worlds.

Currently eyeballing the Porsche Cayenne EV. I still really liked my Q7, so a CPO SQ7 might be the thing.

Silverado EV, Sierra EV, and Lightning are all too big to fit in the garage. Might consider a Hummer SUV, need to drive one and see how I like it.

Really like the EV experience overall, just have some design things about the Rivian I don't like. With that said, Rivian doesn't have a lot of competition in the "EV that tows" area. Rivian is in a sweet spot of size vs capability, as well as somewhat ahead on user interface software. Hard to find something else I "love", and I'm finding that my complaints are relatively small in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Currently eyeballing the Porsche Cayenne EV. I still really liked my Q7, so a CPO SQ7 might be the thing.

Silverado EV, Sierra EV, and Lightning are all too big to fit in the garage. Might consider a Hummer SUV, need to drive one and see how I like it.

Really like the EV experience overall, just have some design things about the Rivian I don't like. With that said, Rivian doesn't have a lot of competition in the "EV that tows" area. Rivian is in a sweet spot of size vs capability, as well as somewhat ahead on user interface software. Hard to find something else I "love", and I'm finding that my complaints are relatively small in the grand scheme of things.

EV or E-Hybrid? Had to look up the EV - I'd be surprised if that still launches since Porsche is pulling back on EVs.

 

[2kwik4u]

EV or E-Hybrid? Had to look up the EV - I'd be surprised if that still launches since Porsche is pulling back on EVs.

Full EV. They're claiming a '26 launch. Rivian lease is up Sept of '27. I've got some time to figure it out.

Personal opinion on Hybrids is not great. Feels like a LOT of complexity for minimal use case. That's quite personal situation dependent as well, so others likely see different value than I do.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Full EV. They're claiming a '26 launch. Rivian lease is up Sept of '27. I've got some time to figure it out.

Personal opinion on Hybrids is not great. Feels like a LOT of complexity for minimal use case. That's quite personal situation dependent as well, so others likely see different value than I do.

Yeah we could back and forth all day on that lol. I do not miss having to stop for 30 minutes on a 4hour trip with our Model 3. That was super annoying. Now that we will make 750 mile one way trip often - I couldn't even fathom, especially with the number of EVs on the road now making the charging stations even busier.

 

[BlkGS]

Honestly, unless you're an EV owner, the idea of renting an EV sounds like I'd rather walk. It would be one thing if the rental companies included free charging for them, like I could just use it for the day and they'd charge it for free when I turn it back in. But they don't, you have to return it with the same state of charge like a gas car. That means now I have to budget the time to charge it, vs the 5 minutes or less to fill the gas tank. And I have to make an account with a charging station presumably (this my be untrue - they may let you just swipe a cardike a gas pump), a lot of hassle when I'm already in a travel situation where I'm crunched for time.

All that said, they sell an absolute buttload of the model 3 and y. I can see why, it's the same price as a well equipped Camry or escape, and arguably cheaper to operate if you charge at home. I think people have this image that them owning a Tesla is somehow higher end than the other mainstream brands, I see a lot of people "flexing" their model 3 like people will try to flex a luxury car (which I think is absolutely stupid anyways but that's a side point).

I still think that EREVs or PHEVs are the way forward. Downsize the batteries for cost and weight but still cover most miles under EV power, but also have ICE for extra power and range.

All that said, the next generation of EV sounds terrible. Ford is moving to these giant single piece castings in its next gen ones. That means that the structural element of the car is one giant piece and if it gets damaged in a fender bender the whole car is totalled. Why do this? It's apparently cheaper than multiple parts bonded together (which could be repaired/replaced if needed). These vehicles are truly headed more and more to disposable consumable products, and that's a travesty, and I fully expect them to do this with ICE products too as soon as they figure out how

 

[2kwik4u]

Honestly, unless you're an EV owner, the idea of renting an EV sounds like I'd rather walk. It would be one thing if the rental companies included free charging for them, like I could just use it for the day and they'd charge it for free when I turn it back in. But they don't, you have to return it with the same state of charge like a gas car. That means now I have to budget the time to charge it, vs the 5 minutes or less to fill the gas tank. And I have to make an account with a charging station presumably (this my be untrue - they may let you just swipe a cardike a gas pump), a lot of hassle when I'm already in a travel situation where I'm crunched for time.

The charging was billed after the fact. I showed up, plugged in, and it took on electrons. Would have been nice if they had told me ahead of time, but I'm sure it was in T's&C's that I didn't read or something.

Planning charging in a city you don't live in is no harder than planning a gas stop at this point. I wrote this post almost 2.5yrs ago. It took my all of 10min to "learn" how to find a charger, and they're all over the place now.

All that said, they sell an absolute buttload of the model 3 and y. I can see why, it's the same price as a well equipped Camry or escape, and arguably cheaper to operate if you charge at home. I think people have this image that them owning a Tesla is somehow higher end than the other mainstream brands, I see a lot of people "flexing" their model 3 like people will try to flex a luxury car (which I think is absolutely stupid anyways but that's a side point).

Agreed. Everyone seems to think Tesla's are "luxury" vehicles, and they're not. They're expensive "mid road" cars. The build and material quality isn't on target for the price point.

I still think that EREVs or PHEVs are the way forward. Downsize the batteries for cost and weight but still cover most miles under EV power, but also have ICE for extra power and range.

Weight matters VERY little to an EV. Cost maybe, but the weight is inconsequential. Several videos online about towing with an EV that demonstrate adding several THOUSAND pounds has little/no effect on efficiency. Aero is the biggest killer of efficiency, always has been.

IMO, the only people that "need" a PHEV or an EREV are those that tow. The rest is FUD spread by those with no experience. I'm sneaking up on a year of ownership and the difference in a road trip, for all practical purposes, only appears when towing.

All that said, the next generation of EV sounds terrible. Ford is moving to these giant single piece castings in its next gen ones. That means that the structural element of the car is one giant piece and if it gets damaged in a fender bender the whole car is totalled. Why do this? It's apparently cheaper than multiple parts bonded together (which could be repaired/replaced if needed). These vehicles are truly headed more and more to disposable consumable products, and that's a travesty, and I fully expect them to do this with ICE products too as soon as they figure out how

Cheaper/easier/faster to build, and a fender bender won't ruin it. Even if the casting is damaged, they are repairable with proper procedures, tools, and materials.

JerryRigEverything literally ripped the bumper off a Cybertruk with an excavator in this video. Then posted this video with how the repair is done by cutting and adhering new panels together. I'm unsure how you could damage a casting any worse than that where it wouldn't have totalled a traditional steel framed, or unibody construction either.

Remember my buddy with the Titan that was indestructible. He totaled it last week by hitting a berm at speed, then running into the cable barrier. Steel frame and all, it was a relatively light hit overall in a single vehicle accident and it's a total loss. Castings aren't what cause vehicles to be totaled, crumple zones are, and I would rather total a vehicle than have that energy come in the cabin with me.



You want automakers to bring the cost down, but then disagree with the innovation that gets you there. I'm not sure how anyone can help rectify this viewpoint for you.

 

[BlkGS]

The bigger issue with repairability is that in a traditional design, say you damage the front subframe. Ok that sucks, but that's a replaceable component. You can remove the old one, and replace it. If it's a single piece casting, assuming they even make replacement sections (because remember, the whole point of it was to be a single piece so why would they make just repair sections? Maybe they'll make extras and cut them up? I wouldn't bet on that though), now you have to cut exactly where the new one should adhere, get the surface perfect to bond in a new one, and hope it works. Not ideal from a cost perspective.

Costs need to come down, but they shouldn't do that at the expense of lifecycle. If your EV has a reduced lifecycle because it's all but impossible to repair, now we're better off just having old school vehicles that can and are repaired and have long life cycles.from an environmental perspective (which was supposedly the whole thing for EVs, to curb carbon emissions).

Personally, I think the industry needs to consolidate. The idea that say, Toyota and Nissan didn't platform share for their fullsize trucks is insane. Why isn't someone at Ram beating down the door at Toyota to codevelop a 1500 truck where they can skin them differently and use their own powertrains, but the underlying platform is shared. The idea that all these automakers are all independently trying to develop EV platforms, batteries, software, etc is absolutely insane and the easiest way to bring costs down is to stop repeating development across multiple companies.

Look at the equinox and prologue, that's a PERFECT example of how it should be done. Neither set of buyer scare, and because it was jointly developed, they built a pretty decent car for not a lot of money. And big surprise, they're both selling really well because they built a good car that isn't too wacky at s reasonable price!

I still disagree that EVa are for everyone who doesn't tow. They're definitely not for people without access to home charging. They're definitely not for people who value traditional driving dynamics. They aren't for people in a few specific segments (large 3 row SUV for example has zero offerings, you have to step down to something Rivian sized, or get the Kia EV telluride, or I could a model X). And to be totally honest, I don't think it makes sense for people who are buying vs leasing right now, there's just too much on the cusp.of change in the RV world.ro be bought in for 6-10 years.

 

[2kwik4u]

The bigger issue with repairability is that in a traditional design, say you damage the front subframe. Ok that sucks, but that's a replaceable component. You can remove the old one, and replace it. If it's a single piece casting, assuming they even make replacement sections (because remember, the whole point of it was to be a single piece so why would they make just repair sections? Maybe they'll make extras and cut them up? I wouldn't bet on that though), now you have to cut exactly where the new one should adhere, get the surface perfect to bond in a new one, and hope it works. Not ideal from a cost perspective.

I fell like you didn't watch the video. The process is explained in significant detail

Costs need to come down, but they shouldn't do that at the expense of lifecycle. If your EV has a reduced lifecycle because it's all but impossible to repair, now we're better off just having old school vehicles that can and are repaired and have long life cycles.from an environmental perspective (which was supposedly the whole thing for EVs, to curb carbon emissions).

It's not impossible to repair. Go watch the video.

To follow your line of thinking, we should all go back to carburetors and steel body panels while we're at it. You know, because it was better back then. This isn't just change for the sake of change, it's an objectively better construction.

And carbon emissions might be a part of why there is a push for EV's, but it's not the only reason.

Personally, I think the industry needs to consolidate. The idea that say, Toyota and Nissan didn't platform share for their fullsize trucks is insane. Why isn't someone at Ram beating down the door at Toyota to codevelop a 1500 truck where they can skin them differently and use their own powertrains, but the underlying platform is shared. The idea that all these automakers are all independently trying to develop EV platforms, batteries, software, etc is absolutely insane and the easiest way to bring costs down is to stop repeating development across multiple companies.
Look at the equinox and prologue, that's a PERFECT example of how it should be done. Neither set of buyer scare, and because it was jointly developed, they built a pretty decent car for not a lot of money. And big surprise, they're both selling really well because they built a good car that isn't too wacky at s reasonable price!

That's not how a capitalistic society works. The whole premise of marketplace competition to drive down prices and drive up innovation is directly at odds with that premise. I'll stop short of calling it communism, but it's sneaking up there. Who's going to admin that effort? Who gets the profits? Should we have government oversight? I just, I can't even imagine how that would work.

But EV credits are bad remember, we can't spur innovation or take rate with incentives, they should stand on their own.

Pick a lane man.

I still disagree that EVa are for everyone who doesn't tow. They're definitely not for people without access to home charging. They're definitely not for people who value traditional driving dynamics. They aren't for people in a few specific segments (large 3 row SUV for example has zero offerings, you have to step down to something Rivian sized, or get the Kia EV telluride, or I could a model X). And to be totally honest, I don't think it makes sense for people who are buying vs leasing right now, there's just too much on the cusp.of change in the RV world.ro be bought in for 6-10 years.

Traditional Driving dynamics - This one is completely laughable and screams "I've never driven an EV with an open mind". What traditional dynamics do you want? Surging power delivery with drops for transmission shifts? High CG's with lots of sway bars to control lean angles? My truck drives like a Jeep on the trails and a Corvette on the street. On the same day without a setup change. The prowess at either end of the spectrum is limited only by the tires, and my nerve to push harder. I'm unsure which traditional dynamics you're looking for here. Even my original post in this thread mentions that the Model 3 is impressively composed at 8/10's and above. If you're talking about the "Nostalgic sound" or the "Pleasure of shifting gears", sure be nostalgic all you want, but don't tell me the driving dynamics were better.

Here's a 7,600lb SUV drifting around a track for an example. What driving dynamics are you missing here?

Large SUV's? They make an electric Escalade and a Hummer. I have to think an Expedition EV is around the corner on the Lightning chassis as well. Sure they're expensive, but shit, so are ICE versions. If you're really concerned about space, they make an electric transit van, and/or Rivian will sell you a transport van if you want.

Buying vs leasing is a moot point. There are tons of people that buy EV's and drive them into the ground. You're taking the cellphone approach to vehicles. If you HAVE to have the latest tech, yea lease. That old cellphone still works and makes calls. We're at a point where you can keep an EV for 10+yrs and it will still be just as viable at the end as it was at the beginning.

Look, I can tell you don't like EV's, and you clearly don't like being told what to do. You've got some pretty hot takes here though that, well, just can't be supported. You don't like them, so don't buy them, but you can drop the charade of them not being objectively better at damn near everything.

 

[BlkGS]

I didn't watch the video. Honestly, i didn't even see one in your huge post, lol.

But yeah traditional driving dynamics are power that builds with revs, a powertrain that the weight transfer function is important, gear changes, sounds, smells, etc. A lot of people like that, and while maybe a time will come where the EV dynamics are preferred by the majority and ICE feels like driving a steam engine car, I dunno. But today, and for me, ICE dynamics is something I prefer. Some people like red cars, others are self haters and only buy black cars like me. People are different and pick what they like, and that's fine.

I fully expect the auto industry to realize consolidation is going to be the only way for them to hit the margins they want with the realities of the market. They all thought that the market would be way bigger and willing to pay way more than reality was. So I expect them to start making deals to co-develop more EVs and products, especially if interest rates stay high.

I forgot about the electric Escalade tbh, think I've only seen one here, I see Escalade Vs more than them. The Hummer EV SUV is a lot smaller than I expected, a guy at work has one, and it's more H3 replacement than H2. No 3rd row seat at all. I think the EV versions of the big3 SUVs got delayed indefinitely for a PHEV (which to be fair is a better choice anyways - an EREV Wagoneer could be the next wife car)

I don't have anything against EVs except the regulatory pressures forcing them. I don't personally want one, but to be fair, I don't really want any new cars lol. I want buttons and gauges and a more analog experience (and really a manual transmission). I want like, early to late 2000s cars lol. I'm just starting my fei.py old man phase early lol.

 

[zpaul]

From what I’ve seen no insurance company wants to repair EV unless it is minor scratches.
Their issue is they do not want any liability if the car burns after repair or develops some glitches.
Maybe there is not enough repair centers or knowledge how to repair EVs. Saw multiple cases where Teslas with minor impact from the rear getting totaled. And that is the main reason insurance is so high on EV. So you save on maintenance but you get hit on insurance.
On the positive side 200k mile Teslas retain 80% of battery. Better than a 2 year old iPhone.

 

[John McLaughlin]

I recently purchased our first EV after driving a 2012 F250 diesel. It is the Tesla 2026 AWD Model Y. You could say it it was a present to myself for my 81st birthday. It is now going on one month and I have about 1000 miles on it. Our longest drive was yesterday almost 300 miles. I did most of the way with the Tesla doing the driving and yes I did stay alert during that time. So far I have found the Model Y to be fun to drive. It is smooth, quiet inside and I am getting IMO good milage. I refueled when the batteries were just at 50 %. It took about 30 minutes and we were on our way again. One must realize battery usage is impacted in many ways, not dissimilar to a gas car. But even more so as everything runs off the battery. I have to admit that I do not know how all of the technology works but I do find it fascinating to use. I will also say it does take a time to get use to it but my said shel loved it over her Cherokee.

 

[2kwik4u]

.......And that is the main reason insurance is so high on EV. So you save on maintenance but you get hit on insurance.
On the positive side 200k mile Teslas retain 80% of battery. Better than a 2 year old iPhone.

Insurance was the $6/mo less for the Rivian compared to my Audi. I think there's too many variables and too much anecdotal evidence to say insurance in always higher or lower.

80% range after 200k miles is likely better than more ICE vehicles as well. Only takes a drop from 25mpg to 20mpg to see the same reduction in range. Feels pretty comparable to me.