2014 AR210 overheats in-use AND also when flushing

[mrodz123]

Greetings Jet Boaters!

I finally moved to a home with a decent sized yard, so now I've got my boat accessible for easy maintenance. I've been having this issue for some time and am hoping for some further guidance after following the recommendations I've read on here.

So both of my engines on my 2015 AR210 are overheating on me whether on the water, or out of the water during flush. I can blow through my pee holes and can tell that the air is passing through the lines without issue. Furthermore, when its on the water in throttle, the pee holes do in fact shoot water -- so I'm assuming that section of the cooling system is okay. What else should I check, then? I watched this video

which, granted, is not my engine model, but I think it still helped me learn a bit about the way these cooling systems generally work.

A bit more information -- I've read this could be a spark plug issue. I've replaced all the plugs the same way I always do and have never had an issue with that. I had a really good guide on the spark plug change procedure which I've been following since the beginning. I've also changed the oil and filters properly.

What else should I be looking at?

Lastly, I know it would be a good idea to get myself a YDS cable so I can run diagnostics on the engines. This in and of itself has been a bit of a challenge. From my understanding, after 2012 Yamaha changed the way this works and in doing so the YDS 1.33 and corresponding cables no longer work. So I've been looking for a 2.0 kit. I landed on these two options, but based on the descriptions of each I am not quite sure that either will work for my boat:

YAMAHA DIAGNOSTIC TOOL - This one says it was designed to mimic the OEM YDS 2.0 feature set almost completely. What's weird, though, is the description says it's only for outboard engines and PWCs -- doesn't say jet boats. Shouldn't this work for my jet boat too?

Yamaha Outboard / Jet Boat / WaveRunner YDS Diagnostic cable set (Plug&play) | eBay - This one is less convincing. It's the YDS 1.33 version, which I'm not sure I can use on my engines. The description does say that it would work for "SOME of the newest models 2013 and up," which sounds promising but I'm just not sure.

Any advice on which kit to buy, and perhaps where to buy it from would be GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[Scottintexas]

i'm not sure which YDS you need,

I do know you need to check the code before guessing on a fix,

I would think that since you have water at the indicators then water isn't an issue, it could be a bad sensor but you'd need the YDS to tell you actual temps.

when does it overheat on the water? at idle after 5 minutes/20 minutes, only at high RPMS ?
How long have you owned the boat ?
Has it ever given you any other engine issues ?


.

 

[WREKS]

When you are running on the hose in No-Wake mode, does one of the 2 pilots at the starboard stern spurt water after the engine has been running a few minutes? If it does not, then you may have a problem with the thermostat. The pilots at midship are for higher rpm.

 

[mrodz123]

i'm not sure which YDS you need,

I do know you need to check the code before guessing on a fix,

I would think that since you have water at the indicators then water isn't an issue, it could be a bad sensor but you'd need the YDS to tell you actual temps.

when does it overheat on the water? at idle after 5 minutes/20 minutes, only at high RPMS ?
How long have you owned the boat ?
Has it ever given you any other engine issues ?


.

Thanks for your reply

when does it overheat on the water? It can be idle for about 5ish minutes, or quicker if higher RPMs. Once the warning is thrown, the RPMs are restricted (as by design)
How long have you owned the boat ? Bought new in 2014, I am the sole owner
Has it ever given you any other engine issues ? None whatsoever

I would really like to check the fault codes to further diagnose -- but I need to know which YDS to buy :/

 

[mrodz123]

When you are running on the hose in No-Wake mode, does one of the 2 pilots at the starboard stern spurt water after the engine has been running a few minutes? If it does not, then you may have a problem with the thermostat. The pilots at midship are for higher rpm.

Thanks for your reply as well

I'll need to pay closer attention as to where the water is exiting. When I am flushing the boat, I am usually standing inside the boat, but I can certainly step out to check where the water is exiting. All I can tell you right now is that I do hear water coming from the stern, and I've always assumed its falling out somewhere near the jets.

I was aware that the peeholes (mid ship) would not spit water during flushing routing, but it's worth mentioning that when I am on the water and running higher RPMs I have asked my wife to check (and I even asked her to record a video to prove to me) that the pee holes are shooting water.

 

[WREKS]

My 2007 SX230 has pilots at stern for thermostat and pilots at midship from engine exhaust for higher rpm engine heat. Yours may be different. If you can run the engine on the hose and determine where the cooling water exits the boat via the thermostat and are sure the thermostat opens after a few minutes once you start the boat and let it idle, then, you could rule out the thermostat. When the thermostat opens water starts gushing out of that hole. On my boat, it is located horizontally under the swim deck. You could also remove thermostat and test it according to service manual specifications.

 

[mrodz123]

My 2007 SX230 has pilots at stern for thermostat and pilots at midship from engine exhaust for higher rpm engine heat. Yours may be different. If you can run the engine on the hose and determine where the cooling water exits the boat via the thermostat and are sure the thermostat opens after a few minutes once you start the boat and let it idle, then, you could rule out the thermostat. When the thermostat opens water starts gushing out of that hole. On my boat, it is located horizontally under the swim deck. You could also remove thermostat and test it according to service manual specifications.

Thanks, I’ll look closer and try what you said about the thermostat. I’ll also buy the YDS options I mentioned above, starting with the cheaper one, with hopes that I can pull some faults to shed some light on this.

That said, does my current information provided not at least narrow this down some what? I mean, the fact that the pee holes shoot water when throttling high enough RPMs plus the fact that the water entering the cooling system from the flushing procedure while out of the water kind of tell us which parts of the cooling system I can ignore, and similarly which parts of the cooling system i should look into more closely? I’ve never had an engine overheat while flushing until now, and to be honest (and I know this is an example of an excessively long flush procedure) I’ve had times where I keep the flush going on an engine for nearly 20 minutes while I do other things on the boat like clean up. 20 minutes flushing on idle with no heat, but now within 5 minutes I get the alarm.

I’m aware it could all just be a faulty temperature sensor, but I find it to be an odd coincidence that the sensor would be failing on both engines at the same exact time.

If anyone can help me narrow down where i focus next, based on the given information, that alone would be a huge help. Thanks again!

 

[RightStuff]

Skip YDS 1.33 for your model/year, I wasn't able to get it working with my 2013 AR210. The only thing I didn't try to get it to work was to disconnect the engines tach wire when the computer w/ YDS was connected. So that might get it working for your engine. I was planning on seeing if someone had the 2.x software version to see if that worked now that I now have the cable.

To me this sounds like a stuck thermostat on the engine, it's not getting water cool enough cycled thru and in turn the engines are tripping the temp sensor. On the hose mine pours water out the back by the jets when at idle speed, have to get up above 3k RPM to get it to flow from the pee holes on the side.

Looks like you are in FL... Do you run in salt water, brackish, or fresh water? Does salt water affect thermostats on our engines? Sorry if that's a dumb question, I only run in fresh water!

 

[WREKS]

If you have an infrared heat gun, take readings on the exhaust manifolds as close as you can get to the cylinders! Right below the exhaust manifold, by cylinder #1 is where the engine thermoswitch is located Part #6. This is the switch that is throwing the alarm. Run on the hose and start taking readings. This is a very likely place for sediment/sand/silt/salt to build up at in the cylinder water jackets because it is the farthest away from the effects of flushing. Take readings along the cylinders at the level of the thermoswitch and compare them.

 

[mrodz123]

Skip YDS 1.33 for your model/year, I wasn't able to get it working with my 2013 AR210. The only thing I didn't try to get it to work was to disconnect the engines tach wire when the computer w/ YDS was connected. So that might get it working for your engine. I was planning on seeing if someone had the 2.x software version to see if that worked now that I now have the cable.

To me this sounds like a stuck thermostat on the engine, it's not getting water cool enough cycled thru and in turn the engines are tripping the temp sensor. On the hose mine pours water out the back by the jets when at idle speed, have to get up above 3k RPM to get it to flow from the pee holes on the side.

Looks like you are in FL... Do you run in salt water, brackish, or fresh water? Does salt water affect thermostats on our engines? Sorry if that's a dumb question, I only run in fresh water!

Thanks! I am indeed in Florida and ran it 100% in salt, always flushed with fresh water each time. Maintained plugs, oil, and filters every year. Admit, I didn’t grease my bearing zerk until just now (doh) but not sure if that could be a reason here.

when you say it could be the thermostat stuck on the engine, how might you recommend I confirm or deny that? Happy to check.

Thanks also for your comments regarding YDS 1.33. I’ll start with the more expensive, 2.0 option.

Lastly, when the engines do throw the overheat alarm, I can tell by touch of the hand that the engines are hot. This may just be normal operation, as I haven’t historically touched them during my problem-free days. But when I do so now, they do seem hot to touch. Sometimes I can even feel the heat radiating through the backseat hatch, mainly when I get the overheat scenario on-the-water at higher RPM.

 

[mrodz123]

If you have an infrared heat gun, take readings on the exhaust manifolds as close as you can get to the cylinders! Right below the exhaust manifold, by cylinder #1 is where the engine thermoswitch is located Part #6. This is the switch that is throwing the alarm. Run on the hose and start taking readings. This is a very likely place for sediment/sand/silt/salt to build up at in the cylinder water jackets because it is the farthest away from the effects of flushing. Take readings along the cylinders at the level of the thermoswitch and compare them.
View attachment 126707

Thanks, I'll try this. Stupid question -- I have an infrared thermometer for taking my baby's temperature. Could I maybe use this, or should I buy one that's specifically used in mechanics? I'm guessing my thermometer designed for humans is only fine tuned for the regular human temperatures of ~98-101 degrees F, but worth asking to make my life easier if it can actually be used.

 

[WREKS]

You can tell if your thermostat is working by observing the hole in the horizontal plane of the bottom of swim deck. After a few minutes of running on hose, water should start streaming out of this hole. If it overheats before the water starts streaming out, that means thermostat is not opening.

 

[mrodz123]

You can tell if your thermostat is working by observing the hole in the horizontal plane of the bottom of swim deck. After a few minutes of running on hose, water should start streaming out of this hole. If it overheats before the water starts streaming out, that means thermostat is not opening.

Excellent thanks for the additional detail. I recall you saying that about the stats earlier; it’s on my list of things to check when I can muster the time to get out there again (sometime this week fairly soon).

A few questions on that if you’d be so kind. A faulty thermostat as you’ve described, would that lead to a failure of the cooling system, or a false alarm of the sensor? Wondering because I do think they are getting hot.
If the former, do you find it odd that both engines exhibit this behavior? Or is that actually complementary to your preliminary diagnosis?

Again many thanks!

 

[mrodz123]

You can tell if your thermostat is working by observing the hole in the horizontal plane of the bottom of swim deck. After a few minutes of running on hose, water should start streaming out of this hole. If it overheats before the water starts streaming out, that means thermostat is not opening.

Ok i think you’re on to something, thanks again man. I just went out and observed underneath the swim platform while running on the hose (standard flush procedure). Only checked port side engine, will check the other next but i wanted to provide this little update.

So water comes out of the jet hole, and a little hole beside it which is covered with a rubber cover that has like an asterisk shaped cutout. Assuming you meant the hole above the jet, water never came out. I took a little photo and drew arrows to show you what I saw.

https://imgur.com/a/YTEViju

So it seems the thermostat isn’t opening like you said. I’m guessing the way this works is the thermostat is checking the engine temperature, and when it reaches a trigger it opens a valve to allow water inside? So if it’s not doing it’s job, then the cooling system isn’t working properly because it’s not able to reach the important area near the cylinders. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong here.

Anyhow, knowing this, what’s my next step? Order new stat, replace, and try again? How hard would you say this job is to do on ones own? I was looking around my engines, comparing to the parts diagram, and couldn’t quite see the part. It must be on the underside, making it a bit difficult to access. If it can be done without hoisting and lifting the engines out, I’m confident enough in my skills to get the job done. Naturally, if it can’t be done from above then I guess I’m stuck taking it to a repair shop.

 

[Scottintexas]

in Buck's cooling video the thermostat is shown at 5:14
it should be in the same area on your's, upper, rear, starboard side,

 

[mrodz123]

in Buck's cooling video the thermostat is shown at 5:14
it should be in the same area on your's, upper, rear, starboard side,

View attachment 126820

Ah thanks! Checked the video again, and wondering if this (pictured) is the right spot on mine?

https://imgur.com/a/7HFyTrr

Seems to match the exploded diagram from the parts site. Guess i just need to take apart that housing and remove the thermostat (#30)

 

[Scottintexas]

yes and you could even run the boat without the thermostat to see if it overheats or at least that water comes out the transom exit point,


.

 

[WREKS]

Ok i think you’re on to something, thanks again man. I just went out and observed underneath the swim platform while running on the hose (standard flush procedure). Only checked port side engine, will check the other next but i wanted to provide this little update.

So water comes out of the jet hole, and a little hole beside it which is covered with a rubber cover that has like an asterisk shaped cutout. Assuming you meant the hole above the jet, water never came out. I took a little photo and drew arrows to show you what I saw.

https://imgur.com/a/YTEViju

So it seems the thermostat isn’t opening like you said. I’m guessing the way this works is the thermostat is checking the engine temperature, and when it reaches a trigger it opens a valve to allow water inside? So if it’s not doing it’s job, then the cooling system isn’t working properly because it’s not able to reach the important area near the cylinders. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong here.

Anyhow, knowing this, what’s my next step? Order new stat, replace, and try again? How hard would you say this job is to do on ones own? I was looking around my engines, comparing to the parts diagram, and couldn’t quite see the part. It must be on the underside, making it a bit difficult to access. If it can be done without hoisting and lifting the engines out, I’m confident enough in my skills to get the job done. Naturally, if it can’t be done from above then I guess I’m stuck taking it to a repair shop.

Water should come out of the hole with the white X arrow. Thermostat reacts to engine heat. When thermostat opens water should also come out of stern located pilot(pisser). Do as @Scottintexas advises!

 

[WREKS]

@mrodz123 FYI: If it is working properly, thermostat needs a few minutes running at idle before it opens.

 

[mrodz123]

@mrodz123 FYI: If it is working properly, thermostat needs a few minutes running at idle before it opens.

Ran it for about 5 minutes, then the heat alarm started and there was still no water coming out. Jumped back inside to remove the hose, throttle the engine a tad to clear any water, and shut it off.