2017 212x Tongue weight

[Doug Kline]

I know there are many threads here on tongue weight. I read through as many as I could but wanted to get some fresh perspective.
Just picked up a 2017 212X, I was pretty confident it wouldn’t squat down my Commander with the factory towing package and load leveler rear shocks. Curious to see the actual tongue weight. It made the 525 mile trip home but I really don’t want to tow it any further like this. Had to be putting heat in my rear tires because they were about +4 pounds compared to the front and it was a relatively cool day.
Going to check it this weekend and get it as close to 7% as possible. Right now the boat is overhanging the rear bunk by 6.5 inches. Without having the boat in the water, how easy/hard does the boat move on the trailer? I figured I can leave the trailer hooked up to my truck, forklift behind the boat and ratchet strap the boat back pulling it by the tie-downs under the transom (with wet bunks). Obviously they’re structural enough to hold the boat on the trailer but am I asking for trouble by doing this? Also, what is the max overhang on the bunks?

 

[USKBoater]

My 2019 212X was well over 700lbs when I picked it up. I didn’t want to overhang the bunks anymore so I ended up moving the axles forward instead. It’s really not hard to do and is the best option IMO.

 

[Doug Kline]

My 2019 212X was well over 700lbs when I picked it up. I didn’t want to overhang the bunks anymore so I ended up moving the axles forward instead. It’s really not hard to do and is the best option IMO.

I wish I had the ability to move the axles, but the center leafspring mount is welded.

 

[Hoppy]

Running tires at maximum recommended pressure will help keep them from flexing and getting hot.

7% tung weight is on the ragged edge of being safe 10-15% is generally recommended. BAD things happen when you don't have enough tung weight ask me how I know. Be sure you are accounting for the weight of gear, fuel, unexpected gear, and any water that may be left in the boat after use in your calculations and leave some room for error.

I would think that putting the boat in the water and adjusting the trailer a little bit at a time with the boat off of it to suit your liking would be the safest and easiest way to do it.

If you can't do that I don't that I would put that kind of stress on the tie down rings 90 degrees to the direction they are ment to have a load. I would use a floor jack with wheels to take some of the weight off of the bunks along with your ratchet strap to inch it back. Here is a writeup about how to take a boat off a trailer. https://www.customboatrepairs.com/diy-repair-tips.php?s=how-to-take-your-boat-off-a-trailer

 

[Doug Kline]

Running tires at maximum recommended pressure will help keep them from flexing and getting hot.

7% tung weight is on the ragged edge of being safe 10-15% is generally recommended. BAD things happen when you don't have enough tung weight ask me how I know. Be sure you are accounting for the weight of gear, fuel, unexpected gear, and any water that may be left in the boat after use in your calculations and leave some room for error.

I would think that putting the boat in the water and adjusting the trailer a little bit at a time with the boat off of it to suit your liking would be the safest and easiest way to do it.

If you can't do that I don't that I would put that kind of stress on the tie down rings 90 degrees to the direction they are ment to have a load. I would use a floor jack with wheels to take some of the weight off of the bunks along with your ratchet strap to inch it back. Here is a writeup about how to take a boat off a trailer. https://www.customboatrepairs.com/diy-repair-tips.php?s=how-to-take-your-boat-off-a-trailer

Definitely going to see exactly what the tongue weight is before I make any changes. I’m assuming it will be near 700 pounds which is double what the trailer trailer manufacturer recommends. They are saying 5 to 7%. My main goal is to get all that pressure off the back of my truck. I had the tires at max went hot. As far as the tiedowns, I will not be pulling 90° from their intended use. Right now they are pulling straight to the front of the trailer and I will be pulling them straight back. Thanks for the link, I definitely have the abilities to get some weight off of the boat in the manner they describe. Only thing that has me worried is the overhang on the bunks. May have to invest in some longer bunks. I’m almost tempted to cut the center leaf spring perches off the trailer and move them forward if I only knew how much.

 

[Hoppy]

Definitely going to see exactly what the tongue weight is before I make any changes. I’m assuming it will be near 700 pounds which is double what the trailer trailer manufacturer recommends. They are saying 5 to 7%. My main goal is to get all that pressure off the back of my truck. I had the tires at max went hot. As far as the tiedowns, I will not be pulling 90° from their intended use. Right now they are pulling straight to the front of the trailer and I will be pulling them straight back. Thanks for the link, I definitely have the abilities to get some weight off of the boat in the manner they describe. Only thing that has me worried is the overhang on the bunks. May have to invest in some longer bunks. I’m almost tempted to cut the center leaf spring perches off the trailer and move them forward if I only knew how much.

Im guilty of not having enough toung weight on my camper trailer once and it ended up on its side in the ditch next to the interstate.
Recommend tung weight is generally 10-15%


As far as the bunks I wouldn't want the boat hanging off the back of them a long ways, I know I have read with an outboard and a conventional transom you want the bunks to extend past the transom so the weight of the motor and transom are sitting on the bunks. Extending the bunks or just moving the axle my be a better idea. I'm sure there is a way to calculate how far to move the axle once you know the total and tung weight.

 

[Doug Kline]

Im guilty of not having enough toung weight on my camper trailer once and it ended up on its side in the ditch next to the interstate.
Recommend tung weight is generally 10-15%
View attachment 198509

As far as the bunks I wouldn't want the boat hanging off the back of them a long ways, I know I have read with an outboard and a conventional transom you want the bunks to extend past the transom so the weight of the motor and transom are sitting on the bunks. Extending the bunks or just moving the axle my be a better idea. I'm sure there is a way to calculate how far to move the axle once you know the total and tung weight.

I get it , 10 to 15% for conventional trailers but boat trailers seem to be lighter on the tongue. I’ll defer to the manufacture of the trailer on this recommendation. Sucks about your camper, must’ve been a scary incident!

 

[Dave burke]

What is the tow rating of your Commander? It certainly looks like it’s squatting pretty badly based on your pic.

I pull my 212X with a 2019 BMW X5 with the towing package. It’s rated for 7200 lbs I believe and it doesn’t squat at all and has no problem pulling the boat. If your Commander is rated for significantly less than this weight, that could be your problem.

As others have said, I’d very careful about the shifting the boat on the trailer. To me that’s flirting with disaster. That said, if you just bought the boat, Is there any evidence that the previous owner has manipulated the trailer in any way?

If you’d like, I can measure the overhang on my trailer if that helps. I bought it new and have not manipulated the trailer in any way.

 

[Doug Kline]

What is the tow rating of your Commander? It certainly looks like it’s squatting pretty badly based on your pic.

I pull my 212X with a 2019 BMW X5 with the towing package. It’s rated for 7200 lbs I believe and it doesn’t squat at all and has no problem pulling the boat. If your Commander is rated for significantly less than this weight, that could be your problem.

As others have said, I’d very careful about the shifting the boat on the trailer. To me that’s flirting with disaster. That said, if you just bought the boat, Is there any evidence that the previous owner has manipulated the trailer in any way?

If you’d like, I can measure the overhang on my trailer if that helps. I bought it new and have not manipulated the trailer in any way.

I know the previous owner did not modify the trailer. He was the second owner and both of the first and second owners are members on this forum. The commanders are decently heavy duty, 5.7 hemi with a towing package rated at 7200. I also have load leveler shocks with his basically a normal shock with a coil over spring for extra support.
I also have a Q8, which is rated even higher but I just don’t want to beat up on my “nice“ car lol. I’m pretty active on the commander, pages and forms and see plenty of people tow with my exact same set up and no problems with this amount of squat. Really interested to see the tongue weight. I have a pretty good set up, computerized chassis scales that we do race cars on a nice level pad. I would love it if you could get the measurement of your overhang. This one was definitely not moved back, the winch/roller is all the way forward on the trailer.

 

[Dave burke]

Seems very strange. I’ll definitely get you the measurement, might take me a few hours

 

[Hoppy]

I get it , 10 to 15% for conventional trailers but boat trailers seem to be lighter on the tongue. I’ll defer to the manufacture of the trailer on this recommendation. Sucks about your camper, must’ve been a scary incident!

I can see where shorlander recommends 5-7% on there trailers but can't see how the physics of a boat trailer is different from any other trailer. Your boat and trailer is 4000lbs ish about the same weight as my camper and that took my pickup right off the road with it. It wasn't scary for me it happened so fast there wasn't time to be scared. It turned out OK I didn't hit anyone else and landed completely off the road. My pickup stayed right side up somehow and a tow truck came out and pulled the camper back on its wheels. Somehow the camper was intact when they set it up I changed the bent axles, coupler, and equalizing hitch and still use the camper. The pickup I had to have the frame straitend and still drive it too.

 

[AZMark]

I tow a 2018 212LS and it squats my Land Cruiser with an 8500 lb rating a lot. I eventually added manual airbags.

If you don’t have some kind of active leveling then you’ll get squat or else your truck would ride way too rough unloaded.

 

[Doug Kline]

I tow a 2018 212LS and it squats my Land Cruiser with an 8500 lb rating a lot. I eventually added manual airbags.

If you don’t have some kind of active leveling then you’ll get squat or else your truck would ride way too rough unloaded.

That’s definitely my next step once I get the tongue weight squared away. Want to get it as close as possible and then the bags will just be a bonus.

 

[Neutron]

From shorelandr website.

 

[Dave burke]

I measured my boat position on my trailer:

- 26 1/4 inches from very front of the tongue to front edge of crank base

- Rear edge of trailer light almost perfectly lined up with the bottom of the transom (see pic but it’s a bit hard to tell)



- 53 inches from the bracket by the trailer fender (see pic) to the middle of the ring cleat on the bottom side of the swim platform (see pic)






apologies but I have done my spring cleaning yet!

One other thought - have you checked to make sure the front ballast bag is empty? Sometimes I end with a lot of water in mine and that could significantly unbalance the boat because it’s pretty close to the bow.

 

[Neutron]

That’s definitely my next step once I get the tongue weight squared away. Want to get it as close as possible and then the bags will just be a bonus.

Are you sure the axles can't be moved. Your trailer looks just like mine and the assembly should be able to be moved.

 

[Doug Kline]

I measured my boat position on my trailer:

- 26 1/4 inches from very front of the tongue to front edge of crank base

- Rear edge of trailer light almost perfectly lined up with the bottom of the transom (see pic but it’s a bit hard to tell)

View attachment 198580

- 53 inches from the bracket by the trailer fender (see pic) to the middle of the ring cleat on the bottom side of the swim platform (see pic)




View attachment 198581View attachment 198580View attachment 198581View attachment 198582

apologies but I have done my spring cleaning yet!

One other thought - have you checked to make sure the front ballast bag is empty? Sometimes I end with a lot of water in mine and that could significantly unbalance the boat because it’s pretty close to the bow.

Thanks so much for those measurements, going to be checking it tomorrow and I’ll let you know what I find. Are you talking about the bag in the ski locker? If so, yes, it is completely empty. And 50% fuel left in the boat. I would assume this would take some more tongue weight off if it was the tank was full.

 

[Doug Kline]

Are you sure the axles can't be moved. Your trailer looks just like mine and the assembly should be able to be moved.

Absolutely positive. Center leaf spring mount which captures the rear end of the front and the front end of the rear spring is welded in place. I’ve seen them where they are held on with U bolts but not on this trailer. Going to get a good look at it when I get it to my shop tomorrow and see how much work it would be to cut them off and relocate them.

 

[Doug Kline]

I measured my boat position on my trailer:

- 26 1/4 inches from very front of the tongue to front edge of crank base

- Rear edge of trailer light almost perfectly lined up with the bottom of the transom (see pic but it’s a bit hard to tell)

View attachment 198580

- 53 inches from the bracket by the trailer fender (see pic) to the middle of the ring cleat on the bottom side of the swim platform (see pic)




View attachment 198581View attachment 198580View attachment 198581View attachment 198582

apologies but I have done my spring cleaning yet!

One other thought - have you checked to make sure the front ballast bag is empty? Sometimes I end with a lot of water in mine and that could significantly unbalance the boat because it’s pretty close to the bow.

looking at the pictures, our boats are sitting exactly the same on the trailer according to the rear bunks. It appears yours is hanging off about the same distance as mine (6.5”). Starting to think my Commander is a POS ?.

 

[Dave burke]

Thanks so much for those measurements, going to be checking it tomorrow and I’ll let you know what I find. Are you talking about the bag in the ski locker? If so, yes, it is completely empty. And 50% fuel left in the boat. I would assume this would take some more tongue weight off if it was the tank was full.

yup, the bay in the ski locker.

last thought - have you tried hooking it up to your Q8?