2021 Yamaha boats released today! no 24' yet though

[OldFireGuy]

Any thoughts on the AR190 vs the AR195? Such a price difference......is the 195S or AR195 worth the price difference?

 

[foozed]

Just talked to my local dealer..... $59,592 for the 212S on a trailer...they have been allotted 6 boats for early release.

i'm looking for an AR210...said those engines seem to be a delay, would expect them in mid August.

Price went up from 2020 - I think the list on our 212s was 56 and change?

 

[2kwik4u]

Any thoughts on the AR190 vs the AR195? Such a price difference......is the 195S or AR195 worth the price difference?

The 195 is 100% worth the $6k upcharge.

Biggest difference is the 160mm pump and supercharged engine. 190 has a 155mm pump and normally aspirated engine. There are lots of small trim upgrades (aluminum handles instead of plastic handles, better speakers/stereo,filler cushion included, things like that) between the two as well.

The 195 is well worth the extra $6k, and IMO is actually a pretty good deal for the money. Only real downside is fuel burn, and associated cost and loss of range. I can get 75-ish miles from my 190 on super smooth water. If you need/want the range, or you want to save a few pennies in fuel, or you just don't want to spend the cash, the 190 is a great boat. The 195 is a great boat with upgrades.

 

[WiskyDan]

that will be great, increase by 1 foot and $20,000.

Thats gonna blow my AR240 upgrade plans right out of the water............

 

[2kwik4u]

Thats gonna blow my AR240 upgrade plans right out of the water............

I suspect the used market is going to be HUGE this time next year, and there will be many deals to be had.

That's based on the HOT market right now, and a lot of those new boaters will find they are not really boat people, and subsequently flood the used market.

 

[Sean R]

I agree 100% I see new boaters out every weekend not having a clue and when they realize all the extra expense they will want to dump them.

 

[HangOutdoors]

@WhiskyDan I am right with you. I was considering an AR240 upgrade over my 2020 AR210. Or possibly a bigger FSH 25' would be awesome, $20k not so much. If prices go high, then it will drag up our used boat values as well. If more used boats hit the market, especially 1 and 2 year old ones, that should cool off those new boat prices and get some big incentives which will in turn drop used prices. So I see this going up and down for a couple of years, it will be a roller coaster I am sure. Demand also should not be as much as it just has been moving forward, at least that is what I assume.

 

[biffdotorg]

Since this is truly a speculation thread based on a piece of literature distributed to a dealer for pre-order purposes, my guess is we have yet to see the full line. Here is one bit of speculation that has some merit based on Yamaha's other product lines.

It is widely known that Yamaha will release new features in their flagship products first for at least one season, and it will trickle down to the more-entry products the following season.

It is also widely known that Yamaha will only develop new engine technology that can be used in more than one product category, otherwise it is not an efficient or cost effective way to recoup R&D investment on said engine.

We are seeing the bread and butter boats that we never expected much change in. We are also seeing boats with the 1.8ltr engine. So with my speculation hat on, we could possibly see the TR1 engine go away, or be replaced with the 1.8 across the board. We could also possibly see the SVHO in the flagship boats in each size hull. 242, 212x etc. or a replacement? I doubt that one. Standardization across the line on the 1.8 makes perfect sense, as I doubt they save much by using the TR1 in weight or power. Just drop a pair of 1.8's in the 210 series and let them enjoy the benefits. As the 2021 x models may have a pair of SC 1.8's for the 210 owners to still lust after the following years.

They probably put out this line up of 2021's based on pre-order 2020's that just could not get filled prior to them re-tooling their plant for 2021 boats. And since they always have prototypes at the dealer show and production models shipping late August/early Sept, then it makes sense that the first ones down the line would be the ones folks have already put a deposit down on, or showed the most demand for.

This leaves me with a sense of excitement that we may see changes to the 212x and possibly 242x. Hull changes are doubtful, but SVHO, and possibly an integrated wake booster of some sort is likely. The lack of supply of the wakebooster kits probably showed yamaha that the demand for surfing with their boats is much greater than anticipated. And it helped to justify just how much we may spend on a more wake specific hull.

Again, this is all just speculation, but it follows the path they lead in Boats, Waverunners, Snowmobiles and ATV's.

 

[HangOutdoors]

@biffdotorg It would be fantastic if they put in 1.8's across the board as you hypothesized. I was thinking/hoping the same thing, if not this year, possibly next. For someone like me who is content in an AR that would be awesome.

 

[biffdotorg]

Many of the OEM's are trying to standardize on common parts and engines are no different. Sled OEM's will use the same engine, across product lines.

Yamaha was super smart with their latest 999 turbo engine. It's used in their flagship sled in a Turbo and NA version in their SXS. They also OEM it to Arctic Cat/Textron for their flagship sled and SXS. And along side the 1049 triple, they share tons of parts in MFG and service.

Go to a boat dealer and ask them how easy it is to stock parts when they have only two engines to deal with. Let alone squash the rumors if or if not a Yamaha 1.8 is next to bulletproof. They bank their entire line on two engines now, that's a bold statement.

Heck, SeaDoo and their Spark, uses an ACE engine that is shared in the sled line. In the Spark, you pay for the amount of HP you want, and it can be upgraded, or sold to you pre programmed! In the sled, they just give you three modes on the dash for performance or eco mode. And that Rotax engine shares parts and design with other 4-stroke ACE engines in the BRP spyder and CanAm X3 SXS. It's smart business.

So the days of engine choices are limited, and that's fine in my book. As long as the choices that are their are solid and you don't have to think about them. Heck I only open my engine bay once a day to give the engines a breath of fresh air before the first fire up. Other than, it's annual maintenance. That's the reliable car-engine mentality we want as boaters.

Now unlike the Snowmobile world, these boat engines are not tinkered with as much as the sled guys. Since this is a family sport, we value reliability over top performance. (with noted exceptions on here that have done some great things)

Most Yamaha engines in any product line leave a lot of HP left on table that can be tapped easily. We have seen the turbo 999 engine come stock with 208hp, and be spooled up over 350hp on a trail machine. And still be reliable on pump gas. I don't think we will see boat guys doing that, as more HP just shows the limitations of the rest of the very expensive drivetrain (pump/impeller) too quickly. In a sled, you clutch and stud, and you can put 350hp to the ground. On a boat you can't do that so easily. So don't expect anything more than what we have seen already with the SVHO engine in the 275 series and 195 series. But that's fine, that's a nice performance bump if we are close to 500hp total like the 275 claims.

Dream on, that's all we can do.

 

[2kwik4u]

Dream on, that's all we can do.

A lot of great points in that post.

I still want to see someone put a water cooled turbo manifold on the side of a 1.8L in a 190, and run an aftermarket ECU setup. Will need a bigger fuel pump, and bigger injectors, but I suspect the block/heads can handle the power adders. Given a large enough water-air intercooler, and I think there is big power to be made there.......Getting the pump hooked up will be the hard part IMO. Several have shown the hull is good into the 60-ish mph range. Imagine picking up a used SX190 for $15k, throwing $5-7k of parts on it, and running 65-70mph with some of the other "go fast" boats that have so much more cash invested.

I'll keep dreaming until I get the spare cash to make it happen

 

[Babin Farms]

Many of the OEM's are trying to standardize on common parts and engines are no different. Sled OEM's will use the same engine, across product lines.

Yamaha was super smart with their latest 999 turbo engine. It's used in their flagship sled in a Turbo and NA version in their SXS. They also OEM it to Arctic Cat/Textron for their flagship sled and SXS. And along side the 1049 triple, they share tons of parts in MFG and service.

Go to a boat dealer and ask them how easy it is to stock parts when they have only two engines to deal with. Let alone squash the rumors if or if not a Yamaha 1.8 is next to bulletproof. They bank their entire line on two engines now, that's a bold statement.

Heck, SeaDoo and their Spark, uses an ACE engine that is shared in the sled line. In the Spark, you pay for the amount of HP you want, and it can be upgraded, or sold to you pre programmed! In the sled, they just give you three modes on the dash for performance or eco mode. And that Rotax engine shares parts and design with other 4-stroke ACE engines in the BRP spyder and CanAm X3 SXS. It's smart business.

So the days of engine choices are limited, and that's fine in my book. As long as the choices that are their are solid and you don't have to think about them. Heck I only open my engine bay once a day to give the engines a breath of fresh air before the first fire up. Other than, it's annual maintenance. That's the reliable car-engine mentality we want as boaters.

Now unlike the Snowmobile world, these boat engines are not tinkered with as much as the sled guys. Since this is a family sport, we value reliability over top performance. (with noted exceptions on here that have done some great things)

Most Yamaha engines in any product line leave a lot of HP left on table that can be tapped easily. We have seen the turbo 999 engine come stock with 208hp, and be spooled up over 350hp on a trail machine. And still be reliable on pump gas. I don't think we will see boat guys doing that, as more HP just shows the limitations of the rest of the very expensive drivetrain (pump/impeller) too quickly. In a sled, you clutch and stud, and you can put 350hp to the ground. On a boat you can't do that so easily. So don't expect anything more than what we have seen already with the SVHO engine in the 275 series and 195 series. But that's fine, that's a nice performance bump if we are close to 500hp total like the 275 claims.

Dream on, that's all we can do.

You had me when you started talking sleds!!!

 

[biffdotorg]

A lot of great points in that post.

I still want to see someone put a water cooled turbo manifold on the side of a 1.8L in a 190, and run an aftermarket ECU setup. Will need a bigger fuel pump, and bigger injectors, but I suspect the block/heads can handle the power adders. Given a large enough water-air intercooler, and I think there is big power to be made there.......Getting the pump hooked up will be the hard part IMO. Several have shown the hull is good into the 60-ish mph range. Imagine picking up a used SX190 for $15k, throwing $5-7k of parts on it, and running 65-70mph with some of the other "go fast" boats that have so much more cash invested.

I'll keep dreaming until I get the spare cash to make it happen

The big point here is similar in the PWC world. PWC MFG's have had a gentlemen's agreement to stick to the US Coast Guard recommendation of 70mph limit. And they have all done just that within 5pmh. Some MFG's dreamometers will read higher, but on GPS, they all hit 70-73mph since the days of my first GP1200r. (But they get there a hell of alot quicker with 300hp these days)

Top speed will never be a concern for Yamaha. As they know most of their owners are not comfortable with controlling these hulls much over 45 in the most ideal conditions. But having that Hp to push around 2000lbs of ballast without over working the engine is a different story. Thus the reason for 500hp in the 275 to push that monster around. (or a new Yamaha surf boat)

Look at the most expensive Wake/Surf boats putting out 500-650hp, but top out at 35mph in a straight line. They are purpose built machines. And honestly, if a 242x came out with 500hp, but was pumped properly to put that hp to the water with 2000lb of ballast, SIGN ME UP! I could care less if it went past 50mph.

To this day, I have no issues with how quickly my boat will get out of the hole and outrun many boats (only to get passed on the big end) but by that time, I have embarrassed them and I don't need to prove anything more. HA!

So if anything, I could see a pair of SVHO's and as shown in the 195 series, they can make great surf power. I'm am blown away by what guys are doing with the 195, and that's just one engine!

 

[biffdotorg]

You had me when you started talking sleds!!!

I have a buddy that works at Speedwerx and tunes Jeremy Houles Wildcat for racing. He knows more about the 998 than many at Yamaha. Speedwerx knows what a yamaha engine can do. But they hate to talk about it as they are long time Cat performance guys. Let's just say they are tickled to have that engine under the hood of more than one Arctic Cat product. But what they do for the Suzuki 1100t as well was pure magic!

Sled season is only months away! (i'm gonna get grilled for that comment)

 

[the MfM]

Rumor is the 24’ line will increase a foot to 25’ for 2021.........

And a jet powered twin engine pontoon!!!

 

[adrianp89]

I really hope they keep a yellow color for the 21 footers. With any luck I’ll be out of my boat in a month or two. Love the current 212x in yellow but probably be tough luck to get one.

 

[Canuckjetboater]

I really hope they keep a yellow color for the 21 footers. With any luck I’ll be out of my boat in a month or two. Love the current 212x in yellow but probably be tough luck to get one.

@adrianp89 ....fingers crossed. Where I live you are lucky to get a Yamaha jet boat at this time of the year and if you can find a color you like......you should play the numbers as your luck is that good lol!

 

[portlandbucfan]

I actually dig the colors...

 

[John_D]

The big point here is similar in the PWC world. PWC MFG's have had a gentlemen's agreement to stick to the US Coast Guard recommendation of 70mph limit. And they have all done just that within 5pmh. Some MFG's dreamometers will read higher, but on GPS, they all hit 70-73mph since the days of my first GP1200r. (But they get there a hell of alot quicker with 300hp these days)

Top speed will never be a concern for Yamaha. As they know most of their owners are not comfortable with controlling these hulls much over 45 in the most ideal conditions. But having that Hp to push around 2000lbs of ballast without over working the engine is a different story. Thus the reason for 500hp in the 275 to push that monster around. (or a new Yamaha surf boat)

Look at the most expensive Wake/Surf boats putting out 500-650hp, but top out at 35mph in a straight line. They are purpose built machines. And honestly, if a 242x came out with 500hp, but was pumped properly to put that hp to the water with 2000lb of ballast, SIGN ME UP! I could care less if it went past 50mph.

To this day, I have no issues with how quickly my boat will get out of the hole and outrun many boats (only to get passed on the big end) but by that time, I have embarrassed them and I don't need to prove anything more. HA!

So if anything, I could see a pair of SVHO's and as shown in the 195 series, they can make great surf power. I'm am blown away by what guys are doing with the 195, and that's just one engine!

What is the rated HP of the SVHO engine. I am planning on getting the 195 FSH

 

[steve0617]

What is the rated HP of the SVHO engine. I am planning on getting the 195 FSH

246.748 hp

Or per the tag in my 195 - MAX POWER: 184 kW