2nd Battery Quote...tell me what you think...

[swatski]

View attachment 34124
Here is an adaptation of what Blue Sea recommended. It is exactly the same as their two cables between the batteries. But instead, you run the
View attachment 34125

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[jlcj7]

Well, got it installed today, but didnt bring the keys with me.... Everything on the house battery works (new polks sound much better even without the amp on yet)... not just need to confirm everything this weekend in terms of the starter battery.

Thanks for all the help and advice on this thread... saved me some $$$ for sure... (and gained a lot more knowledge)

 

[jlcj7]

Just to post a bit more details of the cost (vs. where this thread started... on a dealer's quote)... I will preface by saying i could have gotten many of these parts cheaper (especially the battery), but for me it came down to convenience and being able to get much of the stuff local (at a west marine) vs shipping it to me... Here is the cost breakdown for me vs dealer quote...

Dealer wanted $605 for parts and labor (and no ACR just a switch)

2nd Battery w/ switch my cost
Battery switch and ACR (amazon) $109.46
Battery Cables (made at west marine) $48.00
Terminal ends (West Marine) $30.00
Heat Shrink (west Marine) $12.00
in-line fuse holder for ground (amazon) $5.68
Battery Tray (amazon) $12.86
Group 24 batt (no core) (west marine) $180.00
Bus Bar (amazon) $18.84
Screws/Misc. $10.00
Labor $0.00
TOTAL $426.84

I could have reduced this by about $100 if i wanted to shop around and delay the install longer, but i had time yesterday and just wanted to get it in so i can get the boat back on the water ASAP...

So all in i saved about $200 and am smarter now than i was prior to...

Thanks again for all tips and advice.

 

[txav8r]

@jlcj7 you are indeed smarter, know what you have, how it works, and how to fix it should you ever have an issue. You are in a minority, you know what cables go where!!! Congrats on the install and like you, I had West Marine do my cables (well, use their tools) cut to fit. Yes, you could have done it cheaper, but not better. When guys do these things, they really demonstrate that anyone can do it, and that is one of the strong suits of Jetboaters.net! Congrats again, job well done!

 

[tdonoughue]

Fully agree with Mel, but here is another point: you have an ACR system. Had you quoted that at the dealer, it certainly would have been a $1k job.

Congrats! Oh, and don't forget the pics. Site rule. Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[cozilla]

Congrats @jlcj7 I knew you could tackle this yourself.

 

[jlcj7]

Still lots of cleaning up on wires to do. But it works so far.

 

[tdonoughue]

Wow! Ok, so here is the benefits of pics. And, @jlcj7 , if you don't believe me, there is history on this board that will prove it: this is a very good install and probably better than mine. You have proper crimps and wires and a very nice job electrically. Yes, you could clean things up a bit with some tie downs. But that is trivial. This is an awesome job and I am impressed. That is exactly where I have my switch and ACR. My bus is a little different spot. I have seen some very clean jobs on this board. But this is a nice job. I did mine a few years back and it still is not all tied down and all but it works and works well.

So, again, my congratulations. This is indeed a very nice job.

 

[vxooxv]

The best reason I can tell you to do this yourself, is that when your out on the lake and it is acting wrong after a dealer install, you won't know why. Install it yourself, learn why you did what, and you will know how to use it. The reason the price gets larger and the job gets bigger is because your planning for the future, not because your adding a simple battery and switch. If it is just insurance you want, then just add a second battery and a simple 1/off/2 switch. If you want to install something to help with additional upgrades, then you spend a tad bit more but add time and effort to the install to make it simple. Plenty of threads with diagrams, I will give you the blue sea switch diagram and ACR you pictured as well as a simple switch diagram. They are easy to draw but a little harder to contort in a narrow gunwale interior to install. I can tell you too, that there are other considerations. Remember that you need to check the electrolyte level in your batteries frequently. Also remember that a battery that never gets exercise isn't going to last long, so using it is important. Ok, here are a couple diagrams for consideration...let's start small, here is what you have...
View attachment 33454
Here is the simple perko style 1/off/2 switch. Oh, the combine, or both setting is for emergencies and you shouldn't use that unless you have a dead bank. Some guys want to use that and it is defeating the purpose of having backup, running a risk of using a bad battery, and other issues.
View attachment 33455
Here is the blue sea and acr without any additional features. Note that all diagrams don't show needed or recommended fuses. Note that the ACR is on the battery side of the switch. You can also install the ACR on the load side. There is a difference and what you want it to do is something you have to decide. If the dealer does it, you won't know what he did or how it works. We can explain the difference and the details of this to you.
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Here is the same setup with the ACR on the load side.
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Here is an ACR explanation page I did that helps to understand how to get what you want out of it.
View attachment 33458
I wanted the most out of my system. I added ground and load buses at the battery compartment, as well as a switch and ground bus at the helm. That way adding or removing any equipment was easy in the future. Here is my electrical system. Note that chargers aren't shown in all diagrams and that leads to another discussion for another thread.
View attachment 33459

@trav8r which Buses did you use both at the batteries and helm? Where did you end up installing the helm buses? Pics appreciated.

 

[vxooxv]

I wanted the most out of my system. I added ground and load buses at the battery compartment, as well as a switch and ground bus at the helm. That way adding or removing any equipment was easy in the future. Here is my electrical system. Note that chargers aren't shown in all diagrams and that leads to another discussion for another thread.
View attachment 33459

@txav8r I'm in the process of pretty much copying this setup. Thanks for the diagram! A couples questions.
1. Which ACC/Ground bus did you get? 3/8?
2. The helm side bus addition is a great idea. SAme question - which did you install? I imagine I can get a simple one that has the +&- built in together?
3. The larger question I don't understand yet is battery charging. I think I got the fact that ACR will charge each other - however do i need an on board charging system too?? Is that just something that is inside the boat you plug an outside source to that stays on the boat vs an external system you plug 'to' the batteries?

I'm about to do an entire battery/charging/stereo overhaul. FedEx and UPS is arriving daily...

 

[txav8r]

@vxooxv I just used Blue Sea busses from West Marine. You can certainly order them too. The small ground bus I used, was for chart plotter, underwater light, LED interior lights, so I didn't need anything more than a small 100 amp busbar. This is it but not from West Marine.

http://www.starmarinedepot.com/blue-sea-2314-minibus-100-ampere-common-busbar-5-x-8-32-screw-terminal-with-cover/pzz1847.html?gclid=COXz2pbQi8wCFQqsaQods_wCJg

You could easily put a larger bus bar in for both power and ground if you thought you would ever need that, but my guess is that not many of us need that much. Just look at the possible upgrades and what draw they will have, then look at what you need. Here are the bus bars I used for ACC and GND in the battery compartment...
http://www.starmarinedepot.com/blue-sea-2305-minibus-100-ampere-common-busbar-4-x-10-32-stud-terminal/pzz1448.html?gclid=CJDU957Ri8wCFQ-raQodOPsAWw


And finally, the helm side bus you refer to I am not following you completely. I am thinking you mean the switch/fuse panel I used as kind of a sub panel? Here it is...
https://www.bluesea.com/products/4304/WeatherDeck_12V_DC_Waterproof_Fuse_Panel_-_Gray_4_Positions

The battery charger is a separate discussion for sure and very subjective. It is a must IMO. Any usage above what the boat is designed with, will require supplemental charging to recover the lost battery capacity. I don't use an "onboard" charger. The reason is two fold. Weight/space, and exposure. In my application, it isn't necessary. I do have a fully functional charging system that incorporates what I think is much better. I have a PulseTech smart charger. You could use any smart charger and just mount it on the wall or floor where your boat is stored. Just hook the small leads to the battery(s), and it has a weatherproof connector to hook to the lead from the charger. To me, this is much better than having the charger in the boat. But again, it is my preference. Some guys want the charger mounted in the boat and they have to adapt a way to plug it in. Some of that requires drilling a hole and making a receptacle, or just running the extension out of the compartment and out from under the cover. I like my way of skinning this cat, but you can choose how you want to accomplish it. Regardless if it is onboard or external, you are doing the same thing. It is nothing more than a battery charger, with an AC cord to power, and DC leads to the battery + and - posts. If you have a dual battery setup, you need a dual battery charger and two sets of leads to both sets of battery posts. Yes, you can put the ACR on the battery side and use a single charger, that will charge both. But your waisting the protection circuitry and limiting the speed that two chargers would charge the battery. A dual bank charger is two separate chargers inside a single case. Some use some fancy circuitry to regulate amps to each battery. I just use this one...
https://jet.com/product/detail/f3b812c3022c4758b26d9ab4870c4ceb?jcmp=pla:ggl:gen_electronics_a1:electronics_accessories_cables_a1_other:na:na:na:na:na:2&code=PLA15&ds_c=gen_electronics_a1&ds_cid&ds_ag=electronics_accessories_cables_a1_other&product_id=f3b812c3022c4758b26d9ab4870c4ceb&product_partition_id=161710082700&gclid=CMbJ94rVi8wCFYGFaQod6GgJPQ&gclsrc=aw.ds


The ACR is a relay, a smart switch basically. All it does is open and close at set limits. When it senses a charge on either of the batteries, if that charge is within those low and high limits, it allows the relay to close and connect both batteries together, so any charge will flow to the most depleted first, then to both as they become fully charged. Chances are, that the engines charging system can only supplement, not fully charge your batteries. So this just buys some time basically. The ACR can be installed on either the load side of the battery switch or on the battery side of it. If on the battery side, no matter your battery switch position, it will operate if either battery receives an adequate charge. If it is on the load side, when the battery switch is off, everything on that side of the switch is off, including the ACR. The reason for using it here is to permit engine charging supply to both batteries when running, but not when the battery switch is off, as you will use an external dual bank charger. If on the battery side, both are combined and not where you want it if you use a dual bank charger. Clear as mud?

 

[jlcj7]

I read these battery/charger topics every time you post them... i think I am finally starting to get it... (i think)

 

[txav8r]

One thing I want to add. If your using my diagram, your stereo amplification would be the same as mine. If it is not, you need to consider the size of cable you use from both batteries to the ACC and GND busses in the battery compartment, and from there to the stereo amps. For instance, on my old boat, I used the 4 ga stranded and tinned wire for my battery and amp connections. It was a single 700W class D amp and that was recommended. Any amp other than that JL amp may require a larger cable for all battery and amp runs. My new boat, has 2 ga for batteries and forward to the helm, where it enters a distribution block, and then 4 ga to each amp.

Again, follow your amps recommendations. Same for any remote switch panels you install. I always want to be on the side of safety, so overkill is my moto. I used 10 ga to the helm to power that small switch/fuse panel. Hope this helps!

 

[txav8r]

@jlcj7 , once you do an install, it becomes much clearer.

 

[txav8r]

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I have read back and past...I can't figure out what I was putting there, apparently something Blue Sea