Advice needed on a possible Divorce

[Betik]

Let me start with the simple fact that my wife owns the boat and the F150, so me filing for divorce is just simply out of the question. @Bruce & @Scottintexas can testify to limited choices that I have with Nazi wife. Anyway.
So a family friend is in this pickle.

Married for 15 years with 8 year daughter and 12 year old son.
The motherinlaw ( son's mom) sold her house about 6 years ago and put the money down to buy a new house for all of them ( 5 people). As time was progressing they( mother in law and son ) were noticing unusual behavior from the wife.
For example,
she will tell the mother in law to stop feeding the kids organic food.
the kids will not be allowed to make any mess ( their house looks cleaner than a museum)
kids were forced to stop piano and iceskating despite the fact that they both were very good at it. This is not necessary a financial issue as they were enrolled on band ( which off course the kids hate).
the wife has scheduled once every 2 weeks drunk party with her friends. like going out just to get drunk kind of thing.
Fast forward to last year, and the wife asked the mother in law to move out. He moved out without causing any trouble ( like asking for the 100K down payment that she put on that house).
The mother in law is pretty much the nanny for the kids, but kids are complaining why she left them and went away. Naturally she cannot tell them that she was kicked out for fear of mother cutting access to the kids 100%. And the mother in law is terrorized of the idea.
to make things worse, she the mother in law is particularly concerned as the kids seemed frighten the whole time. For example, one the kids asked the mother in law to make cook something homemade for them, but make sure not to tell mom that they asked for it.
To make things worse the husband is not working night shifts, just so he can minimize interaction withe wife.
This is all weirdness was going on and on and a few months ago the husband come across some prescription drugs for his wife. It so turns out that the medication is for treating Bipolar disorder. And this medication does not mix well with alcohol at all.
The husband took the initiative to go the psychiatrics office to see if there is anything he can do to help and the docs office said that the wife has asked not to discusss her case with out anyone. Including family members. So they told him that they cannot really talk to him about anything.


So the husband is in a position on to do. He is staying int he marriage just because he is worried about the kids. He think that if he files for a divorce the court might restrict access to the kids and then although he will be fine
the kids might not be leaving alone with mom.

since this forum has been so helpful on other non related stuff, I figured I post this and see if any of our lawyer jetboater can chime in. Or anyone with something valuable to add from experience or whatever.

 

[Scottintexas]

knowing that there are always three sides to every story, it's somebody else's marriage and I would always side with Clare (she also has the title to the jetski ??)

taking everything at face value and that unless abuse is involved I would always advise to work to stay married,

I would tell him to talk to an attorney, since she may have medical issues and she is not acknowledging these changes he should be worried for his children. If she has a mental illness that has been diagnosed and is taking medication and is hiding it from him, that says a lot by itself.
Start documenting everything, nights out, times, maybe even video when she returns home to show her physical state,
Discuss it with an attorney in case it becomes a worst case scenario (either divorce or maybe just separation with custody to him??)

This can be difficult as talking to an attorney could be seen by the other spouse as the line in the sand or burning the bridge with no turning back even though it was just precautionary.

Then he can have a open discussion with her about it and offer to go to some type of counseling,

 

[Bruce]

Sounds like this couple does not really know each other and marriage counseling would be a good step for them. Perhaps with her existing counselor where she will feel safe and in control.

 

[djetok]

"The Best Interest of The Kids." This term will said and heard Ad nauseam. If he follows this, he will truly be in a good spot. FYI there is a thing also called "Grand Parents Rights" . ask the lawyer about this. If it gets really nasty move for "Guardian ad litem" This will also help protect his and the mother in laws visitation and custody issues.

Biggest thing is keep your mouth shut and let the lawyer do the talking. You have two ears and one mouth, listen twice as much as you talk. Do not make threats!!!!

 

[bronze_10]

Checl amd see if the cou ty has an involubtary commitment process and what it requires... if she goes off the deep end one day that would be a good way to get her treatment started... if they have that where u live.

 

[Betik]

Checl amd see if the cou ty has an involubtary .....

?? have you been spending time with my friends wife ? This is borderline greek to me and I am supposed to fluent on it LOL

nay, he thinks that she is taking the medication ( at least for the most part) but lithium and alchool are a bad combination. It would definitely help is she were to stay in clinic for a while, but I cannot imagine her giving up her job.
I am going to make a list with all the suggestions and pass it along though ...

 

[WilCo]

Assuming your friend is in the frisco area (and really, there are places nationwide that offer this), my wife and I have done Re|engage 6 times now (5 times facilitating a group) and it's the absolute best thing we've ever done for our marriage. We've worked with couples that had already filed for divorce and seen the marriage get back on the right track. Dallas has many options -- it started at a church called Watermark (but is equally good whether you have religious beliefs or not). marriagehelp.org has a Church Locater on the top of the screen to help find one near you.

 

[bronze_10]

?? have you been spending time with my friends wife ? This is borderline greek to me and I am supposed to fluent on it LOL

nay, he thinks that she is taking the medication ( at least for the most part) but lithium and alchool are a bad combination. It would definitely help is she were to stay in clinic for a while, but I cannot imagine her giving up her job.
I am going to make a list with all the suggestions and pass it along though ...

Yes... that was bad....

 

[zipper]

Not an easy topic. Bipolar disorder is difficult for all those around the afflicted. I can imagine having great difficulty with children in that situation. My MIL was diagnosed with it 20yrs ago. It has been a rollercoaster ride of a relationship with her daughter. When she is on her meds, she is cognitive, lucid, ok to take out to dinner (aside from some of the clothes she wears at 78 lol). But when she goes off the meds., and she does go off, all hell breaks loose and she will ignore your existence as she goes manic with a wine glass in hand. Their relationship has suffered several timeouts over the years and that is where we are at now. This tears my wife up as she is conflicted but what can you do when someone ignores your attempts to get them help and shuts you out. Hopefully she stays on her meds. Honestly, having seen 20 years of it...I don't know that I could handle living with 20 years of that in my wife.
Good luck to your friend and his family.

 

[bobbie]

So i was a sergeant in a jail for 26 years. Not to sound overly paranoid but i would be most concerned about the well-being of the children. I had experience with dealing with women who harmed their children during a psychotic break. The mother in law visits would be the last concern at this point. I would reach out to child protective services in their local area to get some advise along with a good attorney.

 

[mrmeaniemeateaterman]

I had someone close to me that got diagnosed with bipolar disorder several years ago. On top of that they had a drug & alcohol problem at the same time. They had to get through the drug/alcohol problem before they could deal with the bipolar and unfortunately one feeds the other. It took several painful years. It was tough on everyone close to them & took a lot of understanding & patience on everyone's part, it still does. I agree with Bruce that the co-counseling is the best option and the wife needs to realize she can't deal with this on her own while the family needs to understand what she is dealing with too. Unfortunate situation and won't be easy on anyone. But needs to be treated before Bobbie's worst case scenario.

 

[Betik]

So i was a sergeant in a jail for 26 years. Not to sound overly paranoid but i would be most concerned about the well-being of the children. I had experience with dealing with women who harmed their children during a psychotic break. The mother in law visits would be the last concern at this point. I would reach out to child protective services in their local area to get some advise along with a good attorney.

the kids seem scared of their mom, but as of 1 week ago there is no sign of physical abuse at all.

 

[Betik]

Yes... that was bad....

it kind sounded like me for a moment

 

[Peelz]

"The Best Interest of The Kids." This term will said and heard Ad nauseam.

this^

sometimes "doing it for the kids" becomes "do it so WE dont have to feel bad" which will make it worse for the kids... eventually warping into the kids being bait, or ammo for the fight. It's embarrassing to watch this behavior in adults. There is an ex-couple on my soccer team who find ways to rag on each other when I converse with them separately about their child(like blame the other for being late,forgetting gear)....

O.P. that IS a pickle. Difficult to give advice without knowing both parties though... People calling other people crazy is the easy go-to, especially in divorce. Because they lack compassion(which is probably the cause of the rift) Id have to hear from her, or witness the behavior to make a call.

My honest opinion, why wasn't he more involved BEFORE it got to this. If it was THAT important, that only now he wants divorced, why did he let it happen? IE: The canceling of activities for the kids etc...But MOSTLY, making mother in law move out...? I don't think I would have just quietly signed off on that. That was a mistake. It may be hes not telling you something... its never "my fault" anymore. always someone else's problem, and that kind of thinking negates the possibility of compromise. the way of the world really. "I'm right. you're wrong" *fingers in ears-la-la-la-la-la-la-la*

I am sad to hear about your friend and his family.

 

[BigN8]

I've seen a lot of marriages end due to alcohol. I would say confront this issue first. Everything is cause and effect. If the effect is alcohol dependence or abuse then what is the cause? Why is she resorting to heavy drinking or binge drinking. Most likely she is depressed about something or has issue with the husband or mother-in-law, or both. The onion needs to be peeled away to find the root cause to the effect. Once this issue is resolved then dealing with the bipolar personality can be handled. It's not her fault she is bipolar. It's a medical condition that many people have, and people live with the condition all the time. I had to read a great book for work years ago, and it dealt with interoffice conflict resolution. I believe the book was called "crucial conversations" or "critical conversations", something like that. It was a great book and it not only gave me great advice for dealing with office polotics, but it helped my marriage as well. Everyone of us out there have a "fight" or "flight" reaction to conflicts. The book really helped explore how to deal with both types of people and how to just speak from the heart. If you explain your feelings and why you have issue or are hurt by the other person, and do this from the heart, it really helps in conflict resolution.

Now, if I could only use that same advice as a high school football official when dealing with a head coach on the sideline on the football field!! Freakin hard to do!!!

 

[Betik]

@Peelz I am not sure how it got to this as I have know them for 3 years.
The mother in law is defiantly more involved than the average grandparent, but the intention is definitely good. I live with my mom too ( @swatski you are not allowed to comment on this) and my wife and mom have had confrontation and miscommunications in the past. They always got resolved because we all knew the intention is good, but the approach into solving a problem is so very different. Especially given one grew up in Greece and the other in Korea. In my friends case though seems to be a sense of mistrust. Having a medical condition does not help for sure, and the divorce is seen as a last effort to benefit the kids. I am very familiar with the concept of " i am doing this for the kids". I have used them as an excuse to buy a motorcycle and used my wife as an excuse to buy a Mini Cooper, but my friends is not that kind of guys. Definitely not an alpha type personality. More like a ping pong between mom and wife. The only thing, I am 99.99% sure is that grandmos #1 priority is the grandkids regardless what it takes. Wife's 1st priority I am not so sure. She makes drill Sargent look like a compassionate & empathetic person.

 

[Peelz]

@Peelz I am not sure how it got to this as I have know them for 3 years.
The mother in law is defiantly more involved than the average grandparent, but the intention is definitely good. I live with my mom too ( @swatski you are not allowed to comment on this) and my wife and mom have had confrontation and miscommunications in the past. They always got resolved because we all knew the intention is good, but the approach into solving a problem is so very different. Especially given one grew up in Greece and the other in Korea. In my friends case though seems to be a sense of mistrust. Having a medical condition does not help for sure, and the divorce is seen as a last effort to benefit the kids. I am very familiar with the concept of " i am doing this for the kids". I have used them as an excuse to buy a motorcycle and used my wife as an excuse to buy a Mini Cooper, but my friends is not that kind of guys. Definitely not an alpha type personality. More like a ping pong between mom and wife. The only thing, I am 99.99% sure is that grandmos #1 priority is the grandkids regardless what it takes. Wife's 1st priority I am not so sure. She makes drill Sargent look like a compassionate & empathetic person.

their situation sounds remarkably unfortunate. And the big difference in culture, that can be exciting in the beginning, can wear a person down in the end if no compassion is there. SO adds fuel to their fire maybe? I can tell you though....if my Mom lived with us, my wife would lose her mind. their personalities and backgrounds are so vastly different. My Mom tries to do something nice for kids or me, wife sees it as "poking into our business" Wife doesn't ask Mom for help, mom sees it as wife doesn't like her.... *sigh*(not always, but sometimes) I mean, I can insulate them from each other when we only get together every month or so, but if faced with those nonsense misunderstandings every day...the "ping pong" as you call it.... i would want to disappear. We very seriously could end up just like your friends if not careful.....

unfortunate all around. He wants things right for the kids.... Will she understand that, though....? Unlikely based on your posts....and she'll see it as a direct threat to them. I feel bad for your friend. i HATE people using kids as arguments, or the fruit with which to bargain. Even worse, is parents talking trash about each other to the child. absolute worst thing you can do as a parent. teaches them ZERO compassion, and that its ok to disrespect a parent....

EDIT: reread whole post... wife sounds to me like she is seeing mother in law as a threat to her homestead, or identity. normal. but maybe accelerated here by cultural difference. EVERYONE has an identity, when that is challenged, we fight regardless of reality. (see any facebook political comments for example -heehee) I hope she can detach herself and think clearly.... but maybe too late for rational conversation.

LOL at using them to get toys though. Bought a boat that way. So I Can take them with me on my motorhead adventures.... selfish, maybe, in a have my cake and eat it too kinda way. But it benefits them at least.

 

[Peelz]

I've seen a lot of marriages end due to alcohol. I would say confront this issue first. Everything is cause and effect. If the effect is alcohol dependence or abuse then what is the cause? Why is she resorting to heavy drinking or binge drinking. Most likely she is depressed about something or has issue with the husband or mother-in-law, or both. The onion needs to be peeled away to find the root cause to the effect. Once this issue is resolved then dealing with the bipolar personality can be handled. It's not her fault she is bipolar. It's a medical condition that many people have, and people live with the condition all the time. I had to read a great book for work years ago, and it dealt with interoffice conflict resolution. I believe the book was called "crucial conversations" or "critical conversations", something like that. It was a great book and it not only gave me great advice for dealing with office polotics, but it helped my marriage as well. Everyone of us out there have a "fight" or "flight" reaction to conflicts. The book really helped explore how to deal with both types of people and how to just speak from the heart. If you explain your feelings and why you have issue or are hurt by the other person, and do this from the heart, it really helps in conflict resolution.

Now, if I could only use that same advice as a high school football official when dealing with a head coach on the sideline on the football field!! Freakin hard to do!!!

You are 100% right here.... excellent post. i try my best, in all conflicts, to do neither fly nor fight as a FIRST response. look for middle ground. work BACK to fight or flight.... You cant solve a problem with kneejerks.... am i always successful? NOPE I have an identity to protect too. I'm with you on the sports thing.... I have ZERO and i really mean ZERO patience for coaches, parents (i coach competitive club soccer) who scream and yell at officials... or children. makes me throw up. what kind of example are you to the children.....

sorry, little off topic. but i think the personality trait were talking about relates to the mrs. here.

 

[Speedling]

Divorce hardly ever does both sides good. One side maybe. Other side devastated.
I have a friend that was prescribed bi polar meds because it was to counter side effects from another med, which was to counter yet other side effects!
So it may not be bi polar just because you found meds for it.
Sometimes a new doctor for someone can be a huge difference in meds and make that person much happier, bipolar or not.
I am all for marriage to work out, but a third person/mediator with training like a marriage councilor is necessary for all the evils and concerns to come out

 

[gmtech16450yz]

My thoughts, fwiw. lol. (I do have a ton of experience and formal education relating to some of this stuff.)

It really comes down to this... Open, honest, constant communication and RESPECT.

If they've lost those or never had them, there's not much that's going to work without it. They already have several really big things going against them, ALCOHOL being one of the biggest. Her medical condition is a huge factor obviously, and the fact the MIL was living with them was also a big NO NO. That should have never happened.

Alcohol... imho, is THE most dangerous substance on the planet. Just take one tiny little example, look what the introduction of alcohol did to the native populations of every single mile between South America and Alaska. And that's just this continent. Devastating. I'm not being a hypocrite either, I don't drink and either does my wife, daughter, son and son-in-law. And no, I'm not Mormon. haha. If alcohol isn't taken out of the situation, they're screwed.

Medical/mental conditions... It's not her fault. She needs help. If her husband abandons her/isn't capable of helping/doesn't care to help, she's screwed. HE needs to be her first line of defense in her battle with her condition.

Mother in law living with them... Wrong. No therapist will tell you that's a good idea. He might as well have had a second wife living in the house with them. The only situation that might work is if the in-law is older and needs help that BOTH the husband and wife are willing to give in their own home. Otherwise it's just not a good idea. And this is coming from somebody that lived across the street from his MIL for 30 years, and it was amazing and wonderful. BIG difference between across the street and in your home.

Open, honest, constant communication and respect... I've been married to my best friend for 35 years. We've made it through every kind of medical/mental/family/money/kid/job/etc situation you can imagine. We did it by having open, honest and constant communication and a TON of respect for each other. Without respect, you have nothing. If either of them have lost respect for the other, they're screwed.

The first thing I'd ask the guy is if he still has respect for her. Seriously. If he does, then there's a chance. Then ask her (when she's in a decent spot in her condition obviously) if she still has respect for him. Again, if she does, then they have a chance. If either one has lost it, it's extremely hard to get it back. Throw in the medical condition and the MIL situation and they're now battling a whole bunch of bad stuff without a foundation of respect to work from.