Anyone towing with a Jeep Wrangler?

[2kwik4u]

@swatski Took me a few minutes to figure out.....FUD = Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

There was a good article I read awhile back about tow ratings in the US vs Europe......Let me see if I can dig that up. The general basis was that the speed limits here are higher, and the licensing requirements less stringent. SO, with subsequent lower speeds, and better trained drivers, the towing capacities are raised for them......I'll try to find the article.

 

[suke]

Are we talking about a 2 door? Max tow on any 2 door is 2k. Main problem is an extremely short wheelbase. I have towed a utility trailer at about 2k in the WVa mtns on I77 and it did great. I wouldn't go to far above that because the short wheel base creates a small moment arm and a heavy trailer will push the rear sideways with heavy winds or emergency braking. Other than that it is the same drivetrain, suspension, etc as the 4 door which is rated 3.5k. If it's an automatic 4door, I would definitely be worried about over heating the tranny. The have to put a cooler on those tranny's without the thought of trailers

Mine has a massive factory tranny cooler on it from the factory. I believe it was when they transitioned to the new motor in 2012 they all started to come with them from the factory. My tranny, even on 100* days, never goes about 170* which is normal unloaded temp for me. But yeah the 2 doors I wouldn't attempt to tow anything with.

 

[suke]

Consider these simple facts, if you are stopped by a LEO while towing over your legal limit you will be cited.
If you are involved in an accident while towing over the limit - yes the insurance will still pay out for damages to the extent of your coverage no matter who’s fault - but you may lose your ass paying civil damages if sued in the courts, possibly for the rest of your life.


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Chatted with a local LEO about this, and it could vary widely from state to state. He mentioned most local, city, and even SHP don't carry scales. The ones that deal with large trucks do, typically the tahoe SHP's running around here in NC. I don't plan on leaving NC with mine any time soon, so really a moot point for me.

Also to be fair you can be sued civilly and have the same chances of winning even if you are towing with a half ton.

 

[2kwik4u]

Also to be fair you can be sued civilly and have the same chances of winning even if you are towing with a half ton.

Yea the chances of losing a lawsuit go up dramatically if you're towing over the limit. Not really tied to driving a jeep, but tied to the negligence from either not knowing your ratings, or knowing them and disregarding them. Same can be said for towing with a minivan, small SUV, or other such lighter duty vehicle.

 

[swatski]

Yea the chances of losing a lawsuit go up dramatically if you're towing over the limit. Not really tied to driving a jeep, but tied to the negligence from either not knowing your ratings, or knowing them and disregarding them. Same can be said for towing with a minivan, small SUV, or other such lighter duty vehicle.

Or a lifted truck.

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[suke]

Yea the chances of losing a lawsuit go up dramatically if you're towing over the limit. Not really tied to driving a jeep, but tied to the negligence from either not knowing your ratings, or knowing them and disregarding them. Same can be said for towing with a minivan, small SUV, or other such lighter duty vehicle.

That's not entirely true. It's not cut and dry in a civil case. What you may think would be a slam dunk from a logical perspective is not, at all when it comes to civil cases. It will be one factor in a ton of other factors, and also infinitely impossible to prove THAT'S the exact reason a crash was caused. Due to that fact it'd be really hard to prove it would be hard for any judge to grant you winning a civil case based on that. However, say you get into an accident with a commercial truck and they have the funds to put together the analysis and study of the wreck you could lose.

Now I'm not saying if someone sues you civilly you'll get away in the clear. Just saying even towing over weight won't guarantee a civil victory as it's hard to prove. I. E. You're essentially just as likely to win /lose regardless what you're towing with.

 

[Dennis P]

ITS ALL GOOD UNTIL SOMETHING GOES WRONG , then the insurance company says "how much were you towing" ? They're in business not to pay!

 

[Compatico]

Yea, capacities are no longer marketing hype. SAE J2807 regulates how those ratings are determined and published. I think all the manufacturers have moved to that system to determine their tow ratings at this point.

As I stated above, if you tow properly, you won't have any issues. I tow within my vehicle's capacity so it's legal and safe. I don't overload the boat, I don't load tail-heavy, and I don't overload the vehicle. No issues.

I expect my new boat may be a bit over with a full tank of fuel and gear, but that's easy to fix - tow empty and fill up at/near the boat launch. Perfectly legal and safe. In 20 years of driving and towing, I've never had a boat "sway" at speed as they're somewhat aerodynamic. I had a large camper wiggle a bit when a tractor trailer passed, but that was just wind buffeting. That's normal.

 

[swatski]

As I stated above, if you tow properly, you won't have any issues. I tow within my vehicle's capacity so it's legal and safe. I don't overload the boat, I don't load tail-heavy, and I don't overload the vehicle. No issues.

I expect my new boat may be a bit over with a full tank of fuel and gear, but that's easy to fix - tow empty and fill up at/near the boat launch. Perfectly legal and safe. In 20 years of driving and towing, I've never had a boat "sway" at speed as they're somewhat aerodynamic. I had a large camper wiggle a bit when a tractor trailer passed, but that was just wind buffeting. That's normal.

I think you are the first person in this forum I'm going to have to ignore...

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[Compatico]

I’m not sure what “FUD” is

Hey Swatski:

FUD = Fear Uncertainty Doubt

Companies use it to goad buyers into feeling they need more, same way a salesperson tries to upsell to a bigger, better vehicle or boat. It's in their best interest to get you buy the most expensive so they make more money. It's like thinking waitresses and bartenders like you - they don't, they just want your tips.

but you keep repeating this nonsensical claim (and your posts about North America) about towing and pickup trucks - as if it was some kind of a conspiracy.
It is not.
Given the size and weight of boats and campers being trailered these day (in North America) thank God most people use properly rated pickup trucks for that purpose.

Yup I agree with that, but only because many people don't know how to drive with a trailer attached. A few videos of trailer crashes and the need for a monster truck arises. When was the last time you saw a video of people towing properly?

And c'mon, all the commercials and marketing are targeting the need for big trucks to tow a jetski or bigger. Ford, Chevy and Dodge have all run spots on TV showing little boats and jetskis, utility trailers and sometimes larger....but it's all BS marketing to convince buyers this is what they require. You don't have to buy the big truck, but most people in NA THINK they need it. Same goes for tongue weight with trailers, in NA they claim 10-15% is required...sure if you're doing 90 down the highway passing vehicles and cutting through traffic, but if you drive sensibly you don't. In the UK ball weights are 3-7% and they don't have any issues, but they drive more responsibly and they're required to drive a little slower when pulling a trailer to remain safe (typically speeding a bit so they're doing almost the same as the rest of the traffic, but still no issues).

Here, check out this video of a site that tests vehicles (specifically a Sorento) and towing in Australia - similar rules to North America. The best part is the slalom tests:

Or the Practical Caravan videos with lots of UK reviews of smaller vehicles pulling large trailers.

And BTW -
Consider these simple facts, if you are stopped by a LEO while towing over your legal limit you will be cited.

Perhaps...but I'm not doing that so no worries.

 

[Compatico]

Do what you will. I had a 1600lb car trailer with a bunch of plywood and 2x4s going 2 miles from home Depot and it would would barely stop before i added a brake controller. If your trailer brakes don't work well, stopping will be a big issue. Add big tires, loose tie rods and some side wind and you'll be all over the road.

Which is why most countries have rules about trailers and weights...typically anything over 3000 lbs requires properly functioning brakes. We have that on our boats. And what's the first rule about sway - take your foot off the pedal to use the surge brakes to draw the trailer inline to stop the sway. If you have electric brakes, activate it manually or lightly press the brake pedal to activate the trailer braking and stop the sway. People who aren't paying attention and keep accelerating or not reducing speed, are...umm...well, you pick the word to describe them.

 

[Compatico]

There was a good article I read awhile back about tow ratings in the US vs Europe.

Probably this one...read it a long time ago and find it comical:

Tow me down!

Have you ever wondered out loud and at parties why European countries and other non-American countries seem to be able to tow houses with 1 liter econoboxes where in the US you would need a peterbilt to pull the same load? No? Me too! Wait did you say no? Hey where are you going! I’ve got...

oppositelock.kinja.com

 

[swatski]

And what's the first rule about sway - take your foot off the pedal to use the surge brakes to draw the trailer inline to stop the sway. If you have electric brakes, activate it manually or lightly press the brake pedal to activate the trailer braking and stop the sway. People who aren't paying attention and keep accelerating or not reducing speed, are...umm...well, you pick the word to describe them.

Buddy, I'm beginning to wonder where is this advice coming from... lol.

Do what you want and tow with a light vehicle just keep in mind: when actual sway hits you may not be able to do all this good stuff because you may be too busy holding on to the steering wheel.

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[suke]

Buddy, I'm beginning to wonder where is this advice coming from... lol.

Do what you want and tow with a light vehicle just keep in mind: when actual sway hits you may not be able to do all this good stuff because you may be too busy holding on to the steering wheel.

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I think the big misnomer here is that sway can't happen and be just as dangerous with a half ton. I've seen a dodge Dakota crew cab on its roof that was towing a little pop up trailer, I've seen an f150 on its side towing a small enclosed trailer. Funny thing is, and this may be due to the lack of people doing it, I've yet to see anyone in an accident towing what is obviously over their capacity. Part of the issue is a large truck gives you the false sense of safety, so people tend to ignore things like proper loading and weight distribution. Accidents do happen, but I sure don't want people to think just cause I've got a big man truck I can ignore everything else and nothing will happen.

 

[mwalker4]

I think the big misnomer here is that sway can't happen and be just as dangerous with a half ton. I've seen a dodge Dakota crew cab on its roof that was towing a little pop up trailer, I've seen an f150 on its side towing a small enclosed trailer. Funny thing is, and this may be due to the lack of people doing it, I've yet to see anyone in an accident towing what is obviously over their capacity. Part of the issue is a large truck gives you the false sense of safety, so people tend to ignore things like proper loading and weight distribution. Accidents do happen, but I sure don't want people to think just cause I've got a big man truck I can ignore everything else and nothing will happen.

Exactly. A long wheelbase helps, but it can happen with all.

 

[2kwik4u]

Probably this one...read it a long time ago and find it comical:

Tow me down!

Have you ever wondered out loud and at parties why European countries and other non-American countries seem to be able to tow houses with 1 liter econoboxes where in the US you would need a peterbilt to pull the same load? No? Me too! Wait did you say no? Hey where are you going! I’ve got...

oppositelock.kinja.com

That was the article. Thank you.

Last paragraph sums it up greatly

Note: DON’T assume for one second, Americans, that you can simply use Europe as a guide to towing above your limit, its not going to be safe at our speeds DON’T put me and my family in danger or embarrass us in front of the other countries.

The final word that I think we are all preaching here is this; know your capacities, know your weights, know your laws, and choose a setup that is legal where you'll be towing, within posted manufacturer limits, and within your comfort zone.

For me, that's a relatively large tow vehicle to trailer ratio with plenty of margin all around. For others that might be different.

 

[swatski]

I think the big misnomer here is that sway can't happen and be just as dangerous with a half ton. I've seen a dodge Dakota crew cab on its roof that was towing a little pop up trailer, I've seen an f150 on its side towing a small enclosed trailer. Funny thing is, and this may be due to the lack of people doing it, I've yet to see anyone in an accident towing what is obviously over their capacity. Part of the issue is a large truck gives you the false sense of safety, so people tend to ignore things like proper loading and weight distribution. Accidents do happen, but I sure don't want people to think just cause I've got a big man truck I can ignore everything else and nothing will happen.

I agree. To me this is just become a pretty silly discussion where the guy casually tells you how to recover from SWAY based on some back of the envelope bs math, basically to justify whatever he’s wanting to be doing anyway. While I’m not sure he gets the difference between buffeting and sway - I’m pretty sure he will shit his pants if his trailer ever actually sways behind him. I know I would.

(And BTW - I grew up and visit EU annually, I’m not totally oblivious; in most places there’s simply no room to drive a large pickup over there, but the basics are the same, heavy TW low to the ground and low CG, long wheel base, traction control, hitch ball close to the rear axle etc., all those good things work the same on both sides of the pond)

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[Liveto99]

May have to get this to feel safe towing the FSH210

 

[Betik]

May have View attachment 106440to get this to feel safe towing the FSH210

I would but my HOA won’t let me park it front my house

 

[Dixie Highway]

I’ll chime in here though I’m not an expert nor do I consider myself a “towing god”. I liken it to choosing a tool to accomplish a task. Imagine a tradesman that uses his tools every day all day vs. a shade tree mechanic at home that uses them once a year. The tradesman knows an inferior tool will get the job done, but not all day every day. Shade tree guy doesn’t care because he only does it once a year, and Harbor Freight is cheap. Trying to tow often at the limit is a tradesman that buys Harbor Freight tools. Eventually the tool will fail.